Hello, they call me Nic😁

Manfred

Active member
Where is the designer -what is the evidence that one exists?
How do you know a designer exists?

I do not need to know where the designer of my laptop is, to know it is designed.
The design is the evidence of the designer

It is not that difficult to come to the logical conclusion that if I see a building or a painting or nature that there is a designer behind it.

That is why we know, you know, unless you can give me something that can be logically concluded?
 

bigthinker

Well-known member
How do you know a designer exists?
From proof of existence.
I do not need to know where the designer of my laptop is, to know it is designed.
We know laptops are not like sunsets or living creatures; they are designed. That is the difference. We have proof of the existence of both the designers and the builders and we have verifiable knowledge of the processes involved.
The design is the evidence of the designer
A circular argument -a belief founded on belief.
It is not that difficult to come to the logical conclusion that if I see a building or a painting or nature that there is a designer behind it.
We have proof of the existence of designers external to the existence of a building or painting.
That is why we know, you know, unless you can give me something that can be logically concluded?
You do not know, you believe.
Another example: the existence of a dead body is not evidence of a murderer.
 

Manfred

Active member
From proof of existence.

We know laptops are not like sunsets or living creatures; they are designed. That is the difference. We have proof of the existence of both the designers and the builders and we have verifiable knowledge of the processes involved.

A circular argument -a belief founded on belief.

We have proof of the existence of designers external to the existence of a building or painting.

You do not know, you believe.
Another example: the existence of a dead body is not evidence of a murderer.
So give your logical conclusion if you cannot logically conclude ID is behind the "design" of the universe.
 

bigthinker

Well-known member
So give your logical conclusion if you cannot logically conclude ID is behind the "design" of the universe.
We have no examples or evidence of designers for natural processes. Therefore -until such evidence exists we have no logical reason to posit a designer. Naturally occurring processes are distinct from artificial or man-made processes in this way. This is literally how we differentiate between the naturally occurring sunset and the production of such things as laptops.
 

Manfred

Active member
We have no examples or evidence of designers for natural processes. Therefore -until such evidence exists we have no logical reason to posit a designer. Naturally occurring processes are distinct from artificial or man-made processes in this way. This is literally how we differentiate between the naturally occurring sunset and the production of such things as laptops.
I will leave you with the last say, which obviously is a cop out, and intellectually lazy.
Do some research on the probability of the design of the universe to "not be designed"

That is why we know, you know.
 

bigthinker

Well-known member
I will leave you with the last say, which obviously is a cop out, and intellectually lazy.
Ironically that's an intellectually lazy response; its not a counter argument, it IS a cop-out.
Do some research on the probability of the design of the universe to "not be designed"
Simple: demonstrate/prove the existence of a designer of the universe. Because that is what would have to happen BEFORE a designer could be posited.

That is why we know, you know.
 

SovereignGrace

Well-known member
Come on ppl. This is an introduction thread. Please take your disagreements to the Atheist threads. Don’t keep hijacking this thread. I’m not a staff member and not trying to act like one, but don’t argue in a introduction thread...PLEASE.
 

Manfred

Active member
Come on ppl. This is an introduction thread. Please take your disagreements to the Atheist threads. Don’t keep hijacking this thread. I’m not a staff member and not trying to act like one, but don’t argue in a introduction thread...PLEASE.
Yes, this may not be the right thread to have a discussion, but all are free to read this. Will you let the poster get away with equating the signature of a long time member who is Christian, on this public page with it being applicable to Christians from an Atheistic point of view.

Also if you think it was an argument, read it again.

Nic, I would like to apologize to you for hijacking your welcome back thread.

Welcome back, and it is great to see how your friends are happy to have you back.
I too am looking forward to reading your insightful posts again.

Again, apologies to all the Lutheran posters and other friends of Nic.

Regards
Manfred
 
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Nic

Member
Yes, this may not be the right thread to have a discussion, but all are free to read this. Will you let the poster get away with equating the signature of a long time member who is Christian, on this public page with it being applicable to Christians from an Atheistic point of view.

Also if you think it was an argument, read it again.

Nic, I would like to apologize to you for hijacking your welcome back thread.

Welcome back, and it is great to see how your friends are happy to have you back.
I too am looking forward to reading your insightful posts again.

Again, apologies to all the Lutheran posters and other friends of Nic.

Regards
Manfred
No complaints from me. But you may wish to copy and paste your subthread to a more appropiate forum, thank you! Carry on!🙂

Nic🙂
 
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