Here is a good question for Pentecostals and Charismatics.

The truth is, pentecostalists do not even care what Paul taught in 1 Corinthians 12-14. They only care what the pentecostalist cult founders falsely interpreted those chapters as saying. They only care about pentecostalist eisegesis, not God’s truth. If Paul were here today the pentecostalists would be angry at him, perhaps even become violent, because Paul would surely condemn pentecostalist teachings as demonic inspired false doctrine.

I’ve studied this religious cult (and yes it is indeed a cult) intensely for over a year. They are OBSESSED with eisegesis of Acts 2 and 1 Corinthians Ch. 12-14. Notice 1 Corinthians 13:1, the beginning of one of their go-to passages to push their pagan kundalini babble heresy.

“Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.”

The cultists of this religion are among the most uncharitable narcissists in the manmade religious system. Anyone who attempts to expose their damnable false doctrines they accuse of blasphemy of the Holy Ghost. Which is irony at its apex.

Even if the pagan kundalini babble of the pentecostalist religion was biblical, it is worthless because along with the lutherist religion they are among the most uncharitable hypocrites in the manmade religious system when their manmade heresies are exposed.
Yes and I actually used to belong to that cult myself and was asked to lead the teaching in the singles Sunay school and did it for quite some time.

Now when I was leading the group, there was this guy who was part of the group for at least three years and in every home get togethers we had and also every service and they all knew him well and then he had problems and stopped coming to church and the home get togethers and services and no one reached out to him at all and it was as though he never existed.

I even told my Sunday School class that the guy needed the whole group to reach out to him and no one would and then I asked another well respected guy in the group to go with me to visit him and he also said to me, "I am just not feeling it", so I ended up going to visit him myself also but he actually needed the love of the whole group and which he never got either.

Just tell the pastors of these churches that you don't feel like giving your ten percent or that you don't feel like coming to the meetings anymore and see what he says about that.

I have seen this stuff all through the 30 and better years I was involved in that mess and continued to attempt to push it under the rug because I didn't want to believe that what I was involved with wasn't the true church.

It is nothing more than a popularity religious social club with a bunch of people who are deceived into thinking that this is the love of God when really it isn't at all but rather the same exact kind of love that the world has instead.

But boy do they love to play the love card and just like BH did with me in his replies to me.


However, I might have been born at night, but I wasn't born last night, so I am no longer deceived by it.
 
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Funny, because I was discussing Acts 2 and you in typical pentecostalist fashion jump to a proof texted verse with your own eisegesis from to 1 Corinthians 14 to conform to pentecostalist false doctrine. Acts 2:8 says they know exactly what is being said. And make it clear that ‘tongues’ in the scriptures refers to actual national languages..not pentecostalist baby jibberish.

You’re wrong, what I have decided I am not going to believe is manmade pentecostalist dogma. I have decided I will believe the truth, I don’t believe YOU. Or your false eisegesis and pentecostalist dogma.

Your cult has nothing to do with Jesus. Your cult is not of Jesus. Your cult is of Charles Faux Parham, William Seymour, John Dowie, and other satanic heretics and grifters all the way to modern day scam artist scum like Kenny Copeland and Benny Hinn. You believe them, and their false interpretation of scripture not Christ. So enough of the projection already. YOU will be judged. In fact you already have been, which is why you embrace lies and fight for false doctrine. That is God’s judgment on you, that you would believe lies and embrace seducing spirits, doctrines of demons.

If I am a waste of your time then don’t respond to my posts anymore. You are right. Waste of time. Because I will never believe the lies of manmade religion.
You simply decided to deny Scripture because it doesn't agree with you. You simple are an unbeliever. One who made up their own god that looks just like you and called it Jesus. It is not the Jesus of the bible and it does not matter what you call yourself, your actions prove you are an unbeliever.
 
Yes and I actually used to belong to that cult myself and was asked to lead the teaching in the singles Sunay school and did it for quite some time.

Now when I was leading the group, there was this guy who was part of the group for at least three years and in every home get togethers we had and also every service and they all knew him well and then he had problems and stopped coming to church and the home get togethers and services and no one reached out to him at all and it was as though he never existed.

I even told my Sunday School class that the guy needed the whole group to reach out to him and no one would and then I asked another well respected guy in the group to go with me to visit him and he also said to me, "I am just not feeling it", so I ended up going to visit him myself also but he actually needed the love of the whole group and which he never got either.

Just tell the pastors of these churches that you don't feel like giving your ten percent or that you don't feel like coming to the meetings anymore and see what he says about that.

I have seen this stuff all through the 30 and better years I was involved in that mess and continued to attempt to push it under the rug because I didn't want to believe that what I was involved with wasn't the true church.

It is nothing more than a popularity religious social club with a bunch of people who are deceived into thinking that this is the love of God when really it isn't at all but rather the same exact kind of love that the world has instead.

But boy do they love to play the love card and just like BH did with me in his replies to me.


However, I might have been born at night, but I wasn't born last night, so I am no longer deceived by it.
It is always great to hear the inside stories from people God led out of that movement. That is the work of the Hply Ghost, not this pagan babble language and seizuring up on the floor that they do.

As it is written ye shall know them by their fruits and it ought to concern anyone when one of their brethren is having struggles. I agree the whole group ought to have reached out for encouragement.

Yes how they love to throw that L word around but there is none of it in them. They use that word in an attempt to control and stifle others, to serve their own selfish hidden agendas in true covert narcissistic fashion. For them, love is some emotional feeling. But it is not, it is an action, which Christ Himself demonstrated in the most extreme fashion by giving Himself up to torture and execution at Calvary. But to denominational religionists ‘love’ is only a fluffy feel good emotion they can easily fake to present themselves as pious and deceive others, or merely a word they can use in attempt to stifle and control their opposition. It is disgusting to the max.

Yeah that person did the same in his replies as well, and they always love to virtue signal about ‘unity’ while being members of a manmade division. A division from the truth to be precise. That tactic they employ is a form of narcissistic manipulation. An attempt to guilt their enemies or portray them a certain way, because the truth is not on their side. Attack the messenger, because the message of their opposition they cannot honestly and ethically refute.
 
It is always great to hear the inside stories from people God led out of that movement. That is the work of the Hply Ghost, not this pagan babble language and seizuring up on the floor that they do.

As it is written ye shall know them by their fruits and it ought to concern anyone when one of their brethren is having struggles. I agree the whole group ought to have reached out for encouragement.

Yes how they love to throw that L word around but there is none of it in them. They use that word in an attempt to control and stifle others, to serve their own selfish hidden agendas in true covert narcissistic fashion. For them, love is some emotional feeling. But it is not, it is an action, which Christ Himself demonstrated in the most extreme fashion by giving Himself up to torture and execution at Calvary. But to denominational religionists ‘love’ is only a fluffy feel good emotion they can easily fake to present themselves as pious and deceive others, or merely a word they can use in attempt to stifle and control their opposition. It is disgusting to the max.

Yeah that person did the same in his replies as well, and they always love to virtue signal about ‘unity’ while being members of a manmade division. A division from the truth to be precise. That tactic they employ is a form of narcissistic manipulation. An attempt to guilt their enemies or portray them a certain way, because the truth is not on their side. Attack the messenger, because the message of their opposition they cannot honestly and ethically refute.
Exactly and so if anyone tries to set them straight on the truth, they will accuse him of not being loving like Christ. However Christ because of his love would have set them straight also, in fact he did this to a bunch of followers in John 6 and they turned away and never followed him again.

By the way, a repeat of that is on it's way to the apostate churches, for God is going to restore his truth back to his remnant of true believers and when he does they will in turn reveal it unto those who claim to be his but really aren't and then they will also turn away and continue to worship falsely.

I believe that this is what Jesus meant when he spoke of "The Abomination of Desolation", for just like it was with the many Jews through Antiochus Epiphanes who foresook the covernant of God for a mixture of Hedenism and paganism with the worship of God, so it will be with the majority of those who profess Christianity in the very near future.

God will expose it beyond any rebuttal from them and when he does this, the majority of them will still reject the truth for the lie they now follow

When this occurs, it will have been revealed to them from God for certain that they are believing and worshiping him in idolatry but the majority of them will still continue in it and that will be the Abomination which will make them desolate unto the consumation or end of the age and will also bring in the judgment of God upon them.
 
Exactly and so if anyone tries to set them straight on the truth, they will accuse him of not being loving like Christ. However Christ because of his love would have set them straight also, in fact he did this to a bunch of followers in John 6 and they turned away and never followed him again.

By the way, a repeat of that is on it's way to the apostate churches, for God is going to restore his truth back to his remnant of true believers and when he does they will in turn reveal it unto those who claim to be his but really aren't and then they will also turn away and continue to worship falsely.

I believe that this is what Jesus meant when he spoke of "The Abomination of Desolation", for just like it was with the many Jews through Antiochus Epiphanes who foresook the covernant of God for a mixture of Hedenism and paganism with the worship of God, so it will be with the majority of those who profess Christianity in the very near future.

God will expose it beyond any rebuttal from them and when he does this, the majority of them will still reject the truth for the lie they now follow

When this occurs, it will have been revealed to them from God for certain that they are believing and worshiping him in idolatry but the majority of them will still continue in it and that will be the Abomination which will make them desolate unto the consumation or end of the age and will also bring in the judgment of God upon them.
Yes, I believe the pentecostalist religion and all these other manmade bastardizations of the biblical Christian Faith are the ‘strong delusion’ of 2 Thessalonians 2:11. The seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils of 1 Timothy 4:1. It is clear that the pentecostalist religion attracts all these types who believe they have some spiritual gifting that they really don’t have, they are Proverbs 25:14 clouds without rain. They would prefer the lie that they are special and have something others don’t, spiritual grandstanding over sound doctrine and God’s truth. It is all about them, and their idols like William Seymour and other false teachers who seduce them with demonic doctrines founded on eisegesis.
 
You simply decided to deny Scripture because it doesn't agree with you. You simple are an unbeliever. One who made up their own god that looks just like you and called it Jesus. It is not the Jesus of the bible and it does not matter what you call yourself, your actions prove you are an unbeliever.
You’re projecting again. I don’t deny scripture at all. I deny YOU and the false doctrines you embrace. I am an unbeliever in YOU, and YOUR false pagan god made in your own image whom you believe gives you magical powers to raise dead people, make jibberish baby noises, and do other makebelieve hocus pocus. Stop the narcissistic projection and gaslighting already and just move on.
 
You have often spoke of Tongues as being a heavenly language, and you base at least some of your idea on this from Paul's words in 1 Corinthians 13:1.

"If I speak with the tongues of men and angels and have not love, what does it profit me?"


So here is the question.

If it is a heavenly language not used for communication and that the angels use in heaven to edify themselves with, then why would Paul say it will cease when that which is complete has come?

1 Corinthians 13:
8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears. 11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me. 12 For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.



Notice this also, for Paul only mentions three things that shall cease when that which is complete has come and it is " the gift of prophecy, the gift of tongues and the gift of knowledge (not referring to knowledge in general) and he never says that miracles of healing but of course if tongues will cease then so would interpreation of tongues and which wouldn't need to be mentioned therefore.

Oh and by the way, did you happen to notice how Paul uses the idea of a child maturing into a full grown man when he speaks of the coming into a completeness in this passage?

Oh and here is something else, he says that tongues shall cease (future tense) and not that they have already at that time and then he goes into chapter 14 which is referring to the present tense while those gifts are still in operation within the church and therefore your argument that they would continue right until the the coming of Christ fails.

So if it is a heavenly language that angels use in heaven like you believe about it, then why would it cease or need to cease?
The key word is IF, I understand it from context to mean one can not speak in the languages of angels.
 
The key word is IF, I understand it from context to mean one can not speak in the languages of angels.
That is not at all what Paul is saying here, and that is not the point I am making either. The point here is that Paul doesn't call these tongues that he is speaking of here as languages unknown to men or angels but rather those that are used of men and angels instead. Therefore he is not speaking of tongues as some sort of jibberish that God gave to men only to edify themselves with but rather for the purpose of communicating God's words to men who speak those languages instead.

That is the purpose of the gift but Paul wasn't going to forbid the use of them either, because there would be no way of knowing for certain that when someone had an urge to speak in tongues that there wouldn't be a guest having come in among them who would have been from a nation in which this language was used. Therefore Paul by the Holy Spirit gave them instruction instead that if they would speak in a tongue, they should make sure that there was someone who had the gift of interpretation present to be able to translate it so that the whole church could benefit from it. This is all he is saying here and not that there are two different gifts of tongues and one of them for self edification and which is false completely.
 
You just don't get it do you, well of course you don't because you are attempting to understand words of the Spirit through your flesh and just like Paul revealed that you cannot in 1 Corinthians 2:13-16.

Paul is speaking to people who are using these gifts when there isn't anyone around who speaks the language and of course he isn't going to forbid them to use the tongues because at that time, they were still necessary, so he is giving them guide lines for using them instead of forbiding them to use them.

So when he says "he that speaks in tongues" edifies himself, he is speaking of what they are doing by using them when no message is being given by the Spirit through them unto anyone who knows the language.


The rest of this I will not bother with because in your ignorance my points went right over your head and which is usual for those led by their flesh like you are.

By the way, what do you think about your boy David Jeremiah telling everyone that the fallacious pre trib rapture will happen in 2024?

You ought to be embarrassed about that, just as you should be for the majority of trins supporting Donald Trump also, but that's right, you are supporting him yourself aren't you?

And you want me to think you know anything at all about matters of the Spirit in the scriptures, not in your life!
Have you read 2 Timothy 4:2? We will know them by their fruits.
 
The question was why would it cease if it is a heavenly gift for the purpose of edifying the one using it?

These are the problems with the doctrines of the Pentecostals and Charismatics on these issues.

However when Paul speaks of tongues being those of men and angels in 1 Corinthians 13:1, he is not speaking of angels using tongues in Heaven, for there would be no need being heaven is totally unity and with no need for other than one single language.


So when Paul calls the tongues those of men and angels, he is speaking of the fact that all languages that exist today were the result of God and his angels separating the peoples of the earth with tongues to break them up and separate them from their bad unity and as per Genesis 11.

However, on the day of Pentecost and now that Jesus came and died and rose again and the Spirit was giving for the purpose of presenting the truth of the gospel to all those nations, God gave the gift of tongues for that very purpose, to to remove that separation and unify as many as would accept the gospel message and repent and believe.


Here is the passage that I am speaking of from Genesis 11 below.

Genesis 11:
1 Now the whole world had one language and a common speech. 2 As people moved eastward, they found a plain in Shinar and settled there.

3 They said to each other, “Come, let’s make bricks and bake them thoroughly.” They used brick instead of stone, and tar for mortar. 4 Then they said, “Come, let us build ourselves a city, with a tower that reaches to the heavens, so that we may make a name for ourselves; otherwise we will be scattered over the face of the whole earth.”

5 But the Lord came down to see the city and the tower the people were building. 6 The Lord said, “If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them. 7 Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other.”

8 So the Lord scattered them from there over all the earth, and they stopped building the city. 9 That is why it was called Babel[c]—because there the Lord confused the language of the whole world
. From there the Lord scattered them over the face of the whole earth.

Thus Shinar became literal Babylon because God caused the babbel of confusion by separating the people with those languages.

So what do you think Mystery Babylon refers to then? It refers to confusion of many false doctrines of the Apostate church and which includes with it the useless senseless non genuine jabber jawing of tongues that they practice, that is what it refers to


Paul simply understood that it was God who imparted to his angels the different language to separate the people with so that they would their evil unity would be broken up and confused.





So then, the purpose of God giving the languages in Genesis 11 was to bring confusion in order to break up the evil unity that they people had but the purpose of the gift of tongues on the day of Pentecost was to remove the confusion of the language barrior so that all men of every nation could now here the message of the gospel in their language.

So in 1 Corinthians 13-14, although the Corinthians were not using the gift for the purpose it was given being they hadn't gone into other nations yet to use it for the sake of the gospel message, he said what he did because he didn't want to forbid their use of the gift because it wasn't time for it to end.

Here is the bottom line however, for the tongues that are being used today by Pentecostals and Charismatics and many other groups as well, is not the genuine gift of Tongues but it is another of the many confusions of false doctrines and experiences coming for Mystery Babylon the apostate version of "Christianity".



Flat out, it is of the Devil and it is by no means from God's Holy Spirit, for God is not the author of confusion and senseless babbel but rather that belongs to the Devil and his disciples instead.
Why do Angels need to be edified as you claim in your opening post?
 
This is why I said and will say it again, you are not being led by the Holy Spirit because the Holy Spirit will not lead someone to believe things that are contradictory to the scriptures.

For there are two witnesses that God has left on this earth that will prove what is and what isn't the truth, and they are the written scriptures and the Holy Spirit through which they were inspired to be written and you can't have one without the other either, for both are needed to determine for us what is and what isn't the truth of God.

You are not being honest.
Does not believing as you do keep one from entering Heaven?. :unsure:
 
More pentecostalist eisegesis. It was the speaking. According to the Bible anyway, which is what I go by, rather than pentecostalist eisegesis.

“And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?”
Acts 2:7

Galilaeans speaking languages foreign to them was the miracle.

And where does it say 120 different people were speaking, and in 150 different languages?
All of the 120 spoke in tongues in the upper room. ( Acts 2) “And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
 
That is not at all what Paul is saying here, and that is not the point I am making either. The point here is that Paul doesn't call these tongues that he is speaking of here as languages unknown to men or angels but rather those that are used of men and angels instead. Therefore he is not speaking of tongues as some sort of jibberish that God gave to men only to edify themselves with but rather for the purpose of communicating God's words to men who speak those languages instead.

That is the purpose of the gift but Paul wasn't going to forbid the use of them either, because there would be no way of knowing for certain that when someone had an urge to speak in tongues that there wouldn't be a guest having come in among them who would have been from a nation in which this language was used. Therefore Paul by the Holy Spirit gave them instruction instead that if they would speak in a tongue, they should make sure that there was someone who had the gift of interpretation present to be able to translate it so that the whole church could benefit from it. This is all he is saying here and not that there are two different gifts of tongues and one of them for self edification and which is false completely.

1 Corinthians 13

Complete Jewish Bible

13 I may speak in the tongues of men, even angels;
but if I lack love, I have become merely
blaring brass or a cymbal clanging.
2 I may have the gift of prophecy,
I may fathom all mysteries, know all things,
have all faith — enough to move mountains;
but if I lack love, I am nothing.
3 I may give away everything that I own,
I may even hand over my body to be burned;

but if I lack love, I gain nothing.

1 Corinthians 12:8-12

Darby Translation

8 For to one, by the Spirit, is given [the] word of wisdom; and to another [the] word of knowledge, according to the same Spirit;
9 and to a different one faith, in [the power of] the same Spirit; and to another gifts of healing in [the power of] the same Spirit;
10 and to another operations of miracles; and to another prophecy; and to another discerning of spirits; and to a different one kinds of tongues; and to another interpretation of tongues.
11 But all these things operates the one and the same Spirit, dividing to each in particular according as he pleases.
12 For even as the body is one and has many members, but all the members of the body, being many, are one body, so also [is] the Christ.
Read full chapter

clearly no one has all those gifts, ablities.
 
All of the 120 spoke in tongues in the upper room. ( Acts 2) “And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
agree they spoke in human languages they did not know
 
So will you be voting for Joe Biden then? Or do you just not vote at all?
Nope, for the Kingdom I belong to is not of this world and I already have a King and he is already also The King of kings and Lord of lords and which means he is in control over all other human kings and kingdoms and no matter who is reigning and where the are reigning.

By the way in Daniel 2 and 4 it is revealed for us that God decides who will reign in the kingdoms of men and it states also that he gives to reign over those kingdoms whomever he chooses and puts over them the lowliest of men also.

Therefore I don't endorse either of them but I believe Trump is wicked to the core and that the apostate churches better be careful about this in case God gives them what they want again and this time uses it to destroy them.
 
Why do Angels need to be edified as you claim in your opening post?
I never said this at all, so I don't know where you are getting this from what I said.

What I said, was that the reason why Paul calls them the tongues of men and angels in 1 Corinthians 13:1 is because it was God and the angels who separated men by the use of the languages in Genesis 11, when God said "let us go down and confuse their languages, therefore the languages are those of men (those used by men) and also of Angels because the Angels originally issued them from God and because they also use them to communicate to men of all languages as well.
 
Does not believing as you do keep one from entering Heaven?. :unsure:
Nope for what will keep one from entering into heaven is if they deny what Jesus said in John 17:3 and of which he based whether or not we will have eternal life on knowing and believing also.

John 17:3 This is eternal life, that they might know you (he was praying to the Father alone) The Only True God and Jesus the Christ whom you sent".

Now, how many persons did Jesus tell us was The Only True God and how many persons did he tell us was the Christ whom The Only True God sent?
 

1 Corinthians 13​

Complete Jewish Bible​

13 I may speak in the tongues of men, even angels;
but if I lack love, I have become merely
blaring brass or a cymbal clanging.
2 I may have the gift of prophecy,
I may fathom all mysteries, know all things,
have all faith — enough to move mountains;
but if I lack love, I am nothing.
3 I may give away everything that I own,
I may even hand over my body to be burned;

but if I lack love, I gain nothing.

1 Corinthians 12:8-12​

Darby Translation​

8 For to one, by the Spirit, is given [the] word of wisdom; and to another [the] word of knowledge, according to the same Spirit;
9 and to a different one faith, in [the power of] the same Spirit; and to another gifts of healing in [the power of] the same Spirit;
10 and to another operations of miracles; and to another prophecy; and to another discerning of spirits; and to a different one kinds of tongues; and to another interpretation of tongues.
11 But all these things operates the one and the same Spirit, dividing to each in particular according as he pleases.
12 For even as the body is one and has many members, but all the members of the body, being many, are one body, so also [is] the Christ.
Read full chapter

clearly no one has all those gifts, ablities.
That is correct and which is proof that the Charismatics and Pentecostals are in error for claiming that the gift is for everyone when Paul says otherwise.
 
agree they spoke in human languages they did not know
Yes and another fact that we need to express here, is that just because all of the 120 in the upper room received this gift of tongues, doesn't mean that all believers will either and which is another error of the charismatics and pentecostals concerning this.
 
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