Here is a list of some important passages and verses by topic.

[shroom]

So what does that infer about numerous cavemen and inferior species of "men" who existed before Adam, many thousands of years ago, even before the last ice age?

There are two schools of thought on "cavemen."

One is as you suggest, that creatures like men existed between Gen 1:1 and 1:2.
The other is that the fossils of cavemen aren't nearly as old as science thinks they are, that they were small groups of people who inbred to the extent that they were malformed.

I'm not sure which is true, but I do believe that Adam was created ~6000 years ago and every human on the planet that has existed since then is descended from him.

 

[CrowCross]

Jesus the human being was not God. End of. And so "1000 years is as a day" did not apply to Jesus (1000 years being colloquial for some arbitrary very long length of time).

Nor do it apply to the six days of creation.

BTW, Yes, Jesus was God come in the flesh.

 

[cjab]

There are two schools of thought on "cavemen."

One is as you suggest, that creatures like men existed between Gen 1:1 and 1:2.
The other is that the fossils of cavemen aren't nearly as old as science thinks they are, that they were small groups of people who inbred to the extent that they were malformed.

I'm not sure which is true, but I do believe that Adam was created ~6000 years ago and every human on the planet that has existed since then is descended from him.

I don't credit that.

There is this biological species of homosapiens. But the Bible is NOT a scientfic text book, but about God's relations with me. It therefore starts with the first spiritual man, Adam a "son of God." Adam was special, and his descendents formed the first civilizations in and around Sumer, probably more like 9000-8000 years ago.

After Adam was expelled from Eden, the knowledge of God spread throughout homosapiens, albeit in corrupted forms (paganism).

Only after Noah, did God regard all homosapiens as "men."

The knowledge of God spread throughout the world from Adam and his descendants, especially after the tower of Babel episode.

 

[cjab]

Nor do it apply to the six days of creation.

It indeed did apply to the days of creation, because "God" was creating.

BTW, Yes, Jesus was God come in the flesh.

No, there is no such thing as "God in the flesh." The bible knows nothing of it. It is a gnostic heresy. John says "Jesus came in the flesh," not "God came in the flesh." Jesus is the name of a man, not God.

 

[shroom]

I don't credit that.

There is this biological species of homosapiens. But the Bible is NOT a scientfic text book, but about God's relations with me. It therefore starts with the first spiritual man, Adam a "son of God." Adam was special, and his descendents formed the first civilizations in and around Sumer, probably more like 9000-8000 years ago.

Not possible, if you add up the years in the genealogies.

After Adam was expelled from Eden, the knowledge of God spread throughout homosapiens, albeit in corrupted forms (paganism).

Only after Noah, did God regard all homosapiens as "men."

Source?

The knowledge of God spread throughout the world from Adam and his descendants, especially after the tower of Babel episode.

We disagree. Everyone at the tower of Babel was a descendant of Adam.

 

[CrowCross]

It indeed did apply to the days of creation, because "God" was creating.

And the author of Genesis said six days and a day of rest....the text and wording informs us it was 24 hour long days.
I explained why in a preceding post.

No, there is no such thing as "God in the flesh." The bible knows nothing of it. It is a gnostic heresy. John says "Jesus came in the flesh," not "God came in the flesh." Jesus is the name of a man, not God.

You said.....There is no such thing as God in the flesh...But the bible says the Word who was God became flesh......So, I pretty much miss your point.

 

[cjab]

And the author of Genesis said six days and a day of rest....the text and wording informs us it was 24 hour long days.
I explained why in a preceding post.

You fudged it, by inferring morning and evening referred to 24 hour days. But they don't have to refer to a day, because the Hebrew words are of wider meaning and application, as I explained to you.

You said.....There is no such thing as God in the flesh...But the bible says the Word who was God became flesh......So, I pretty much miss your point.

You don't grasp why the Word was God - because the Word was with God. Once the word became flesh, the Word ceased being with God in heaven. Jesus likened himself to being sent on a journey. So he was no longer "with God" albeit he was given the Holy Spirit of God so that he could remain one with God, even on his journey.

It all comes about because you don't know Greek, and you also don't reject polytheism as you should, from the outset. John 1:1 isn't talking abou 2x Gods. If you think that, you are on v. dangerous ground.

 

[SavedByTheLord]

You fudged it, by inferring morning and evening referred to 24 hour days. But they don't have to refer to a day, because the Hebrew words are of wider meaning and application, as I explained to you.


You don't grasp why the Word was God - because the Word was with God. Once the word became flesh, the Word ceased being with God in heaven. Jesus likened himself to being sent on a journey. So he was no longer "with God" albeit he was given the Holy Spirit of God so that he could remain one with God, even on his journey.

It all comes about because you don't know Greek, and you also don't reject polytheism as you should, from the outset. John 1:1 isn't talking abou 2x Gods. If you think that, you are on v. dangerous ground.

Not when used with an ordinal number. Never in the Bible and never in any real conversation without deceit.

6 days always means 6 day.
not 6 trillion days.

 

[CrowCross]

You fudged it, by inferring morning and evening referred to 24 hour days. But they don't have to refer to a day, because the Hebrew words are of wider meaning and application, as I explained to you.

If you say so. The natural reading of Genesis suggest otherwise.

You don't grasp why the Word was God - because the Word was with God.

Being with God doesn't make one God.

Once the word became flesh, the Word ceased being with God in heaven.

Yes, Jesus..aka the Word who John says is God...was on earth.

Once again you change the natural reading.

Jesus likened himself to being sent on a journey. So he was no longer "with God" albeit he was given the Holy Spirit of God so that he could remain one with God, even on his journey.

Just as we have a spirit...the Word of God which was Spirit became flesh...Jesus in the flesh had the Word as His Spirit...and like christians today also have the Holy Spirit.

It all comes about because you don't know Greek, and you also don't reject polytheism as you should, from the outset. John 1:1 isn't talking abou 2x Gods. If you think that, you are on v. dangerous ground.

Let US make man in OUR image...."Our and US" could mean 2 or 3...or even 4...but certainly not 1 as your false theology suggest. The bible presents God as three persons...yet one in nature and essence.

 

[cjab]

Not when used with an ordinal number. Never in the Bible and never in any real conversation without deceit.

There is no ordinal number in Jn 1:1.

6 days always means 6 day.
not 6 trillion days.

There is no word "day" in Hebrew.

 

[cjab]

If you say so. The natural reading of Genesis suggest otherwise.

Only if you read all the words in a particular way. But you could also read them in another way and it is entirely appropriate to do so given the Sun and Moon weren't created until the 4th "day" and seen to bear no correlation with the word "day" as applied to creative acts.

Being with God doesn't make one God.

I think it does, if being with God is being seated on his throne, and acting as God over creation.

Yes, Jesus..aka the Word who John says is God...was on earth.

But Jesus is not "the God", he does not bear the title "the God" in Greek, as does the Father. "God" in Jn 1:1c lacks the article, which infers the Father in action was working through or by the Logos.

Once again you change the natural reading.

Just as we have a spirit...the Word of God which was Spirit became flesh...Jesus in the flesh had the Word as His Spirit...and like christians today also have the Holy Spirit.

That would make you a Appollinarian heretic. Jesus had a human spirit/soul, but I agree it came from the Word.

Let US make man in OUR image...."Our and US" could mean 2 or 3...or even 4...but certainly not 1 as your false theology suggest. The bible presents God as three persons...yet one in nature and essence.

No the bible doesn't present God as three persons. It present one person as God "I am God" in the OT, repeated multiple times. Look it up. "I" is one person.

 

[CrowCross]

Only if you read all the words in a particular way. But you could also read them in another way and it is entirely appropriate to do so given the Sun and Moon weren't created until the 4th "day" and seen to bear no correlation with the word "day" as applied to creative acts.

Are you saying there wasn't light separated by darkness prior to the creation of the sun and moon? I mean, you might be saying that but the bible doesn't.

I think it does, if being with God is being seated on his throne, and acting as God over creation.

Jesus was the creator.

According to the OT God made the earth.
Gen 1.1
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth

Jeremiah 10:12
But God made the earth by his power, and he preserves it by his wisdom. With his own understanding he stretched out the heavens.

Psalm 89:11
The heavens are yours, and the earth is yours; everything in the world is yours--you created it all.

COL 1:16
For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

JOH 1:10
He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him.

HEB 1:2
but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe.


Considering the OT verses say God created.....and the NT says Jesus created...Jesus MUST be God.

But Jesus is not "the God", he does not bear the title "the God" in Greek, as does the Father. "God" in Jn 1:1c lacks the article, which infers the Father in action was working through or by the Logos.

Really???? You can tell yourself that....I'll just stick with what is written. The Word is God. Pretty straight forward.

That would make you a Appollinarian heretic. Jesus had a human spirit/soul, but I agree it came from the Word.

It was the Word as John tells us the Word became flesh. The same verses tell us the Word was God and With God.
In Revelation the bible tells us Jesus is the Word.

No the bible doesn't present God as three persons. It present one person as God "I am God" in the OT, repeated multiple times. Look it up. "I" is one person.

Above I showed you where Jesus is the creator....as well as the creator being God. Sorry, but you're simply not proving your point.

 

[cjab]

Are you saying there wasn't light separated by darkness prior to the creation of the sun and moon? I mean, you might be saying that but the bible doesn't.

Jesus was the creator.

According to the OT God made the earth.
Gen 1.1
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth

Jeremiah 10:12
But God made the earth by his power, and he preserves it by his wisdom. With his own understanding he stretched out the heavens.

Psalm 89:11
The heavens are yours, and the earth is yours; everything in the world is yours--you created it all.

COL 1:16
For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

JOH 1:10
He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him.

HEB 1:2
but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe.


Considering the OT verses say God created.....and the NT says Jesus created...Jesus MUST be God.

What is it with this "Jesus MUST be God"? If Jesus MUST be God, why doesn't the bible say "Jesus MUST be God"?

1 cor 8:6, "Of God, Through Christ." Do you have any idea of what this means?

Really???? You can tell yourself that....I'll just stick with what is written. The Word is God. Pretty straight forward.

Well, that's not what it says, is it? It says "And the Word was God" because Jn1:1c is only one part of a composite sentence.

I guess taking things out of context, and changing the meaning, rearranging the word order, etc, is stock in trade for Trinitarians.

It was the Word as John tells us the Word became flesh. The same verses tell us the Word was God and With God.
In Revelation the bible tells us Jesus is the Word.

Above I showed you where Jesus is the creator....as well as the creator being God. Sorry, but you're simply not proving your point.

Ok then, I'm not going to debate with an ardent polytheist. I am a monotheist and have almost nothing in common with you.

 

[SavedByTheLord]

What is it with this "Jesus MUST be God"? If Jesus MUST be God, why doesn't the bible say "Jesus MUST be God"?

1 cor 8:6, "Of God, Through Christ." Do you have any idea of what this means?


Well, that's not what it says, is it? It says "And the Word was God" because Jn1:1c is only one part of a composite sentence.

I guess taking things out of context, and changing the meaning, rearranging the word order, etc, is stock in trade for Trinitarians.


Ok then, I'm not going to debate with an ardent polytheist. I am a monotheist and have almost nothing in common with you.

The gospel of John declares that Jesus Christ is God in its first verse. Referring to Christ, John wrote:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. - John 1:1

The Bible is quite clear that God created all things. This is clearly shown in Genesis 1 and other parts of the Old Testament (Exo 20:11, Exo 31:17, et al).

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. - Gen 1:1

But the New Testament declares that Jesus Christ created all things. So, the following verses prove that Jesus Christ is God Almighty.

All things were made by him; and without him was not anything made that was made. - John 1:3

 

[cjab]

The gospel of John declares that Jesus Christ is God in its first verse. Referring to Christ, John wrote:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. - John 1:1

The Bible is quite clear that God created all things. This is clearly shown in Genesis 1 and other parts of the Old Testament (Exo 20:11, Exo 31:17, et al).

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. - Gen 1:1

But the New Testament declares that Jesus Christ created all things. So, the following verses prove that Jesus Christ is God Almighty.

All things were made by him; and without him was not anything made that was made. - John 1:3

Faulty exegesis that refuses to be bound by what scripture actually says, and which derives from a determination to impose your persecuting heretical brand of Christainity known as Sabellianism/Polytheism on the world. The only religion where the son is "God almighty" is ba'al worship and paganism where the son wholly supplants the Father. However ba'al is a made made idol-god, made in the image of man, even god the Son, that the bible knows nothing of.

 

[rod.ney]

Faulty exegesis that refuses to be bound by what scripture actually says, and which derives from a determination to impose your persecuting heretical brand of Christainity known as Sabellianism/Polytheism on the world. The only religion where the son is "God almighty" is ba'al worship and paganism where the son wholly supplants the Father. However ba'al is a made made idol-god, made in the image of man, even god the Son, that the bible knows nothing of.

FYI, even Isaiah 9:6 calls that child ( Jesus Christ ) " Mighty God" and God His Father calls Him " O God " in Hebrews 1:8 and that' because He ( precarnate Jesus Christ ) was the WORD who " was God " and " with God " ( the Father & Holy Spirit ) in John 1:1 before He " became Flesh " ( incarnate ) as Jesus Christ in John 1:14! That's also why Jesus referred to Exodus 3:14 ( God the " I AM " ) when He said He was " I Am " in John 8:58 in order to Prove to the unbelievers how He knew Abraham even before Abraham was born! Only God knows us before we are born! Case closed!

 

[rod.ney]

What is it with this "Jesus MUST be God"? If Jesus MUST be God, why doesn't the bible say "Jesus MUST be God"?

1 cor 8:6, "Of God, Through Christ." Do you have any idea of what this means?


Well, that's not what it says, is it? It says "And the Word was God" because Jn1:1c is only one part of a composite sentence.

I guess taking things out of context, and changing the meaning, rearranging the word order, etc, is stock in trade for Trinitarians.


Ok then, I'm not going to debate with an ardent polytheist. I am a monotheist and have almost nothing in common with you.

The one GOD ( Godhead ) of the scriptures is a TRINITY of 3 Divine Persons called Father, Word/Son & Holy Spirit/ Ghost )! That's clearly why we get baptized in the NAME ( Not NAMES ) of the one GOD ( Father, Son & Holy Spirit -Matt.28:19 )! ALL fulness of the one GOD/Godhead ( Col.2:9 ) dwells bodily in Jesus Christ ( God the Word who became Flesh )! Case closed! -------------------------
Colossians 2:9
For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily;

 

[rod.ney]

It indeed did apply to the days of creation, because "God" was creating.


No, there is no such thing as "God in the flesh." The bible knows nothing of it. It is a gnostic heresy. John says "Jesus came in the flesh," not "God came in the flesh." Jesus is the name of a man, not God.

God the Word ( He " was God " ) of John 1:1, who " was with God " ( the Father & Holy Spirit ) did in Fact " become Flesh " ( God the Word in the flesh ) in John 1:14! Even Isaiah 9:6 calls that child ( Jesus Christ of John 1:14 ) " Mighty God " and God His Father calls Him "O God " in Heb.1:8! Case closed!

 

[cjab]

God the Word ( He " was God " ) of John 1:1, who " was with God " ( the Father & Holy Spirit ) did in Fact " become Flesh " ( God the Word in the flesh ) in John 1:14! Even Isaiah 9:6 calls that child ( Jesus Christ of John 1:14 ) " Mighty God " and God His Father calls Him "O God " in Heb.1:8! Case closed!

The Hebrew 'El' title was ascribed to the Son, but Almighty God is El Shaddai, which was not imputed to the Son. Learn to make the right distinctions!

 

[cjab]

The one GOD ( Godhead ) of the scriptures is a TRINITY of 3 Divine Persons called Father, Word/Son & Holy Spirit/ Ghost )! That's clearly why we get baptized in the NAME ( Not NAMES ) of the one GOD ( Father, Son & Holy Spirit -Matt.28:19 )! ALL fulness of the one GOD/Godhead ( Col.2:9 ) dwells bodily in Jesus Christ ( God the Word who became Flesh )! Case closed! -------------------------
Colossians 2:9
For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily;

Which means the Godhead isn't Christ.