Here is another "astounding" claim from the Mormons.

jamesh

Active member
"The Church of Jesus Christ was well established in the time of Adam (see Joseph Smith, Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, comp. Joseph Fielding Smith, Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1938, pp. 157, 169). Men like Seth and Enos grew to become the early patriarchs of the Church, and through them a long line of priesthood leaders was established." Taken from the following site: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/1980/10/adam-the-archangel?lang=eng

How can this be true since the book of Acts explains the preparation of the Church for ministry at Acts 1:1-2-13 and then from Acts 2:14-5:42 the witness begins at Jerusalem and spreads beyond Jerusalem. Then at Acts 10 the Gentiles are brought in, (Acts 10:45-48), the house of Cornelius. So, how could the Church of Jesus Christ be well established even before Jesus incarnated or before He was even born?

IN GOD THE SON,
james
 

Janice Bower

Well-known member
Until the current prophet denounces that teaching, the devout Mormons will believe it.

“You keep your eye upon him whom the Lord called, and I say to you now, knowing that I stand in this position, you don’t need to worry about the President of the Church ever leading people astray, because the Lord would remove him out of his place before He would ever allow that to happen” (The Teachings of Harold B. Lee, ed. Clyde J. Williams [1996], 533).
---President Harold B. Lee
 

Richard7

Well-known member
Until the current prophet denounces that teaching, the devout Mormons will believe it.

“You keep your eye upon him whom the Lord called, and I say to you now, knowing that I stand in this position, you don’t need to worry about the President of the Church ever leading people astray, because the Lord would remove him out of his place before He would ever allow that to happen” (The Teachings of Harold B. Lee, ed. Clyde J. Williams [1996], 533).
---President Harold B. Lee
Well you made a decision based most likely on the above and left the Church... in your mind you did the right thing. In my mind and opinion you made a mistake because you were deceived. Why do I say that? because your questions and remarks indicate you have only the basic understanding of LDS doctrine and have been led astray by those who have lied, deceived and intentionally mislead... I see in your remarks a basic thread that you will find in most anti-mormon sites...
 

Janice Bower

Well-known member
Well you made a decision based most likely on the above and left the Church... in your mind you did the right thing. In my mind and opinion you made a mistake because you were deceived. Why do I say that? because your questions and remarks indicate you have only the basic understanding of LDS doctrine and have been led astray by those who have lied, deceived and intentionally mislead... I see in your remarks a basic thread that you will find in most anti-mormon sites...
I did what the missionaries asked me to do: I prayed. I asked God then I did what God wanted me to do! Jesus not Joseph Smith is the way. I see in your posts basic anti-exmormon remarks. Oh, you are exhibiting unloving behavior. You comments and remarks are attempts to put me in a box of "deplorables" who don't agree with Joseph Smith's false teachings. I'd rather follow JESUS!

The only anti-Mormon literature that I read (past tense)back then was the Bible. Jesus is the way, trust in God and He will direct your path, thy word have I hid in my mine heart that I might not sin against thee, those who seek me will find me, there are false Christs, come out from among them, and many more.

What everyone needs is the Bible!
 

Richard7

Well-known member
I did what the missionaries asked me to do: I prayed. I asked God then I did what God wanted me to do! Jesus not Joseph Smith is the way. I see in your posts basic anti-exmormon remarks. Oh, you are exhibiting unloving behavior. You comments and remarks are attempts to put me in a box of "deplorables" who don't agree with Joseph Smith's false teachings. I'd rather follow JESUS!

The only anti-Mormon literature that I read (past tense)back then was the Bible. Jesus is the way, trust in God and He will direct your path, thy word have I hid in my mine heart that I might not sin against thee, those who seek me will find me, there are false Christs, come out from among them, and many more.

What everyone needs is the Bible!
Why do you feel the need to shout.... I understand why you left because as you stated......our prophets said they would never lead you astray.
Can you give me one example of how they did this...
 

Janice Bower

Well-known member
Why do you feel the need to shout.... I understand why you left because as you stated......our prophets said they would never lead you astray.
Can you give me one example of how they did this...
I shouted because you seem so hard of hearing or is it a vision deficiency? Okay, I answered you, now answer my questions.
 

Janice Bower

Well-known member
Why do you feel the need to shout.... I understand why you left because as you stated......our prophets said they would never lead you astray.
Can you give me one example of how they did this...
Shall we start with Joseph Smith, then tackle Brigham Young?
 

Richard7

Well-known member
Shall we start with Joseph Smith, then tackle Brigham Young?
Yep, please begin in how JS and BY has led you astray? and do you consider JS and BY as perfect beings and without sin or faults? Lets not go into opinions, personal viewpoints etc..... how did JS and BY lead you doctrinally astray????
 

Janice Bower

Well-known member
Yep, please begin in how JS and BY has led you astray? and do you consider JS and BY as perfect beings and without sin or faults? Lets not go into opinions, personal viewpoints etc..... how did JS and BY lead you doctrinally astray????
God does not want us to follow liars. I initially did. I didn't talk my husband out of baptizing children when each child turned eight (thankfully not our own). I read the abominable lies of LDS prophets. I wasted time reading the Book of Mormon. I was a visiting teacher and went home teaching with my husband. I paid a full tithe to help promote a false gospel. I paid a freewill offering to help build a Mormon temple, etc.

Why would I consider any Mormon false prophet as a perfect being?!?
 

Janice Bower

Well-known member
Why do you feel the need to shout.... I understand why you left because as you stated......our prophets said they would never lead you astray.
Can you give me one example of how they did this...
I could give you hundreds of examples, but I'm not obligated to waste my time on deaf ears.
 

Richard7

Well-known member
I could give you hundreds of examples, but I'm not obligated to waste my time on deaf ears.
Then why reply to any of my post... block me and your issue with deaf ears will be solved.... nobody forces you to debate with me....
"Hundreds of examples" is nothing more than a straw-man, no substance.
 

Janice Bower

Well-known member
Then why reply to any of my post... block me and your issue with deaf ears will be solved.... nobody forces you to debate with me....
"Hundreds of examples" is nothing more than a straw-man, no substance.
Well, I don't have the energy to hunt and peck for 16 hours so I'll have to give my frustration to Jesus and not worry about your insults.
 

brotherofJared

Well-known member
Then why reply to any of my post... block me and your issue with deaf ears will be solved.... nobody forces you to debate with me....
"Hundreds of examples" is nothing more than a straw-man, no substance.
I don't think that's a straw man. It's simply a false claim.
 

Aaron32

Well-known member
"The Church of Jesus Christ was well established in the time of Adam (see Joseph Smith, Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, comp. Joseph Fielding Smith, Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1938, pp. 157, 169). Men like Seth and Enos grew to become the early patriarchs of the Church, and through them a long line of priesthood leaders was established." Taken from the following site: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/1980/10/adam-the-archangel?lang=eng

How can this be true since the book of Acts explains the preparation of the Church for ministry at Acts 1:1-2-13 and then from Acts 2:14-5:42 the witness begins at Jerusalem and spreads beyond Jerusalem. Then at Acts 10 the Gentiles are brought in, (Acts 10:45-48), the house of Cornelius. So, how could the Church of Jesus Christ be well established even before Jesus incarnated or before He was even born?

IN GOD THE SON,
james
The owner of the statement "the Church of Jesus Christ was well established in the time of Adam" is the author of the conference talk, Mark E. Petersen. I couldn't actually find the statement in the reference provided.

You're question shows the importance of correct terminology.
It's not the "Church" per se. Both the talk and the sources are referring to the priesthood (the power and authority to act in the name of God) from the beginning. Conceptually, yes, the church defined as "God's covenant people" existed from the beginning, and it was always led by Jesus Christ, since Jesus is: our Creator, Jehovah, and Son of God.

"Beginning with Adam, the gospel of Jesus Christ was preached, and the essential ordinances of salvation, such as baptism, were administered through a family-based priesthood order. As societies grew more complex than simply extended families, God also called other prophets, messengers, and teachers. In Moses’s time, we read of a more formal structure, including elders, priests, and judges. In Book of Mormon history, Alma established a church with priests and teachers.

Then, in the meridian of time, Jesus organized His work in such a way that the gospel could be established simultaneously in multiple nations and among diverse peoples. That organization, the Church of Jesus Christ, was founded on “apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone.” It included additional officers, such as seventies, elders, bishops, priests, teachers, and deacons. Jesus similarly established the Church in the Western Hemisphere after His Resurrection." (Christofferson, "Why the Church?", Oct 2015) https://abn.churchofjesuschrist.org...e-church?lang=eng&abVersion=V03&abName=GLOB88

 

Janice Bower

Well-known member
"The Church of Jesus Christ was well established in the time of Adam (see Joseph Smith, Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, comp. Joseph Fielding Smith, Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1938, pp. 157, 169). Men like Seth and Enos grew to become the early patriarchs of the Church, and through them a long line of priesthood leaders was established." Taken from the following site: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/1980/10/adam-the-archangel?lang=eng

How can this be true since the book of Acts explains the preparation of the Church for ministry at Acts 1:1-2-13 and then from Acts 2:14-5:42 the witness begins at Jerusalem and spreads beyond Jerusalem. Then at Acts 10 the Gentiles are brought in, (Acts 10:45-48), the house of Cornelius. So, how could the Church of Jesus Christ be well established even before Jesus incarnated or before He was even born?

IN GOD THE SON,
james
First, do not expect Mormonism to be logical. Second, the sermons came along by its leaders and afterwards people had questions and the leaders at the time of these questions (sometimes thousands of years later) tried to answer the questions.

Today's teachings about angels and gods don't make sense. Obedient Mormons can qualify for exaltation in the Church of the Firstborn. The Church of the Firstborn is the highest level of the Celestial Kingdom. There are no singles permitted in that level of the CK; neither male nor female singles have exaltation. One of the necessary ordinances is temple marriage for eternity. Adam was Michael the archangel. He was married to Eve for eternity. After he died he again became Michael the Archangel again. Why wasn't he given godhood?

Adam was not the Firstborn spirit child. He was instead the first mortal. But Jesus was still not on earth when "Heavenly Father" gave the priesthood to Adam and established the church. Okay, does that help a little (even a tiny bit) with your comprehension of Mormonism?

The first church became apostate, I guess.
 

Richard7

Well-known member
Today's teachings about angels and gods don't make sense. Obedient Mormons can qualify for exaltation in the Church of the Firstborn. The Church of the Firstborn is the highest level of the Celestial Kingdom. There are no singles permitted in that level of the CK; neither male nor female singles have exaltation. One of the necessary ordinances is temple marriage for eternity. Adam was Michael the archangel. He was married to Eve for eternity. After he died he again became Michael the Archangel again. Why wasn't he given godhood?
Wrong again... it means that only those in the highest degree can have eternal increase because of marriage (new and everlasting covenant of marriage) and being sealed for time and eternity.. those who do not are called ministering servants to the gods and goddesses .... but they cannot obtain the fullness of the priesthood.

In the celestial glory there are three heavens or degrees; and in order to obtain the highest [i.e., a fullness of the priesthood as a priest and king after the order of Melchizedek], a man must [first, as a prerequisite,] enter into this order of the priesthood [meaning the new and everlasting covenant of marriage [i.e., the second, or Abrahamic degree]]; and if he does not, he cannot obtain it [i.e., the fullness of the priesthood, the highest degree]. He may enter into the other [i.e., he may enter into the first degree associated with Moses-in other words, cross the threshold of celestial glory at the veil], but that is the end of his kingdom; he cannot have an increase [i.e., “children after the resurrection”].
 
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