Hey, A&E, you want to have kids like I tolds you to?....first you must sin and disobey me.

[CrowCross]

Hey, A&E, you want to have kids like I tolds you to?....first you must sin and disobey me.

Shortly after the creation of Adam and Eve God told them to....

Gen 1:28 God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth and subdue it; rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and every creature that crawls upon the earth.”​

After the creation of Adam another command was given ...

Gen 3:16 And the LORD God commanded him, “You may eat freely from every tree of the garden, 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil; for in the day that you eat of it, you will surely die.”​

But, according to Mormon "theology" we are told in order for Adam and Eve to be able to have children what has been know to be the fall and banishment from the garden had to occur first.

According to Mormon material....
“If Adam had not transgressed he would not have fallen, but he would have remained in the garden of Eden. And all things which were created must have remained in the same state in which they were after they were created; and they must have remained forever, and had no end.

“And [Adam and Eve] would have had no children; wherefore they would have remained in a state of innocence, having no joy, for they knew no misery; doing no good, for they knew no sin."

“And Eve, his wife, heard all these things and was glad, saying: Were it not for our transgression we never should have had seed, and never should have known good and evil, and the joy of our redemption, and the eternal life which God giveth unto all the obedient” (Moses 5:10–11).

Mormon theology teaches that God gave a commandment to Adam and Eve to be fruitful and multiply....but in order to fulfill that command which was to be fruitful and multiply they must DISOBEY the commandment not to eat the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

It's ironic how the book of Moses speaks of "Joy" that...."God giveth unto all the obedient”......then God expected Adam and Eve to be disobedient and fall...condemning all of mankind... to have this joy.

There is absolutly no Biblical basics for this theology. In fact to suggest someone be disobedient to God so they may gain is evil and Satanic.

 

[Janice Bower]

Regarding Adam and Eve’s different perspectives of their transgression, Elder Richard G. Scott of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles explained:

“Later, ‘Adam blessed God … and began to prophesy concerning all the families of the earth, saying: Blessed be the name of God, for because of my transgression my eyes are opened, and in this life I shall have joy, and again in the flesh I shall see God’ [Moses 5:10; emphasis added]. Adam was thinking about his responsibilities. He was trying to align his performance with the desires of the Lord. Eve said, ‘Were it not for our transgression we never should have had seed, and never should have known good and evil, and the joy of our redemption, and the eternal life which God giveth unto all the obedient’ [Moses 5:11; emphasis added]. Eve’s response was characteristic of a woman. She embraced all, wanted to make sure that everyone was considered. One response was not more correct than the other. The two perspectives resulted from the traits inherent in men and women. The Lord intends that we use those differences to fulfill His plan for happiness, personal growth, and development. By counseling together they arrived at a broader, more correct understanding of truth” (“The Joy of Living the Great Plan of Happiness,” Ensign, Nov. 1996, 74).

 

[CrowCross]

Regarding Adam and Eve’s different perspectives of their transgression, Elder Richard G. Scott of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles explained:

“Later, ‘Adam blessed God … and began to prophesy concerning all the families of the earth, saying: Blessed be the name of God, for because of my transgression my eyes are opened, and in this life I shall have joy, and again in the flesh I shall see God’ [Moses 5:10; emphasis added]. Adam was thinking about his responsibilities. He was trying to align his performance with the desires of the Lord. Eve said, ‘Were it not for our transgression we never should have had seed, and never should have known good and evil, and the joy of our redemption, and the eternal life which God giveth unto all the obedient’ [Moses 5:11; emphasis added]. Eve’s response was characteristic of a woman. She embraced all, wanted to make sure that everyone was considered. One response was not more correct than the other. The two perspectives resulted from the traits inherent in men and women. The Lord intends that we use those differences to fulfill His plan for happiness, personal growth, and development. By counseling together they arrived at a broader, more correct understanding of truth” (“The Joy of Living the Great Plan of Happiness,” Ensign, Nov. 1996, 74).

Thanks for the info....I wish they answered the question as to why God would have them sin in order to have children.

 

[Janice Bower]

Thanks for the info....I wish they answered the question as to why God would have them sin in order to have children.

They can't. The religion was just made up by whatever popped into Smith's head.

 

[CrowCross]

The crickets are louder than the mormons...

Bumped

 

[CrowCross]

Again, if they could have children, why would God command them to multiply and replenish the earth.... why would that even be necessary to command them to have children, you maintain they already could, can't have it both ways...

Why would God have them sin..be disobedient... and eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil just so they could fall into a state where they could have children?

 

[Janice Bower]

The way to forfeit blessings in Mormonism is to disobey:

D&C 130
20 There is a law, irrevocably decreed in heaven before the foundations of this world, upon which all blessings are predicated
21 And when we obtain any blessing from God, it is by obedience to that law upon which it is predicated.

 

[CrowCross]

And the mormon said....“Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden? ”

 

[Janice Bower]

And the mormon said....“Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden? ”

Which god?

 

[CrowCross]

Are you serious? That seems to indicate that multiply and replenish the earth was a satanic commandments. I'm not sure anyone would agree with you on that point. Looks like nonsense to me.

To multiply and fill the earth isn't satanic. I never claimed it was.
To not eat from the tree also wasn't satanic.

What is satanic is the mormon doctrine that A&E had to disobey and eat from the tree...fall...in order to have children.

Just a note: I know that line taken out of context looks really really bad but my response is to that phrase in context. Adam was literally obeying God's commandment when he partook of the fruit so that he could have children.

How??????
....but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil; for in the day that you eat of it, you will surely die.”.....How is eating from the tree, as you put it....literally obeying Gods commandment?

 

[CrowCross]

Adam was literally obeying God's commandment when he partook of the fruit so that he could have children.

Where does the Bible teach that?

 

[CrowCross]

Where did he tell them to sin... on my! Its not there....

OF COURSE IT'S NOT THERE Richard7
...God didn't tell them to sin...why would he do that?

The problem with the demonic mormon theology is that in order to have children....he mormons teach they had to sin by eating from the tree God told them not to eat from.

Are you claiming A&E were not disobedient?

 

[Janice Bower]

OF COURSE IT'S NOT THERE Richard7
...God didn't tell them to sin...why would he do that?

The problem with the demonic mormon theology is that in order to have children....he mormons teach they had to sin by eating from the tree God told them not to eat from.

Fall of Adam and Eve

Gospel topic information and links to additional resources

www.churchofjesuschrist.org

Are you claiming A&E were not disobedient?

Adam and Eve are held in high esteem by Mormons! It's disgusting!

“Adam fell that men might be; and men are, that they might have joy." 2 Nephi 2:25

The lies of Mormonism are pure evil:


BENEFITS OF THE FALL
The Fall is an integral part of Heavenly Father’s plan of salvation (see 2 Nephi 2:15–16; 9:6). It has a twofold direction—downward yet forward. In addition to introducing physical and spiritual death, it gave us the opportunity to be born on the earth and to learn and progress. Through our righteous exercise of agency and our sincere repentance when we sin, we can come unto Christ and, through His Atonement, prepare to receive the gift of eternal life. The prophet Lehi taught:

“If Adam had not transgressed he would not have fallen, but he would have remained in the garden of Eden. And all things which were created must have remained in the same state in which they were after they were created; and they must have remained forever, and had no end.

Fall of Adam and Eve

Gospel topic information and links to additional resources

www.churchofjesuschrist.org

 

[Janice Bower]

Genesis 1
31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

 

[Janice Bower]

To multiply and fill the earth isn't satanic. I never claimed it was.
To not eat from the tree also wasn't satanic.

What is satanic is the mormon doctrine that A&E had to disobey and eat from the tree...fall...in order to have children.


How??????
....but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil; for in the day that you eat of it, you will surely die.”.....How is eating from the tree, as you put it....literally obeying Gods commandment?

I never heard a Mormon say that Adam wasn't disobedient. I was told that Adam disobeyed in order to obey the command to multiply. Yea, right --- Mormons claim that before he ate he was innocent and naive, not knowing how to procreate! AND Mormon jesus supposedly redeemed all humans from Adam's disobedient act.

 

[Janice Bower]

....
Fundamental 2: “The way is prepared from the fall of man.” (2 Ne. 2:4.) The fact that the plan of redemption was prepared long before the Fall took place is clearly taught in many places in the scriptures. (See, for example, D&C 124:33, 41; D&C 128:5; D&C 130:20.) The Fall was part of a plan laid down in the very beginning.

Fundamental 3: “Salvation is free.” (2 Ne. 2:4.) This is a profound and important concept. The best single commentary we have on 2 Nephi 2 is 2 Nephi 9—Jacob’s own commentary on the doctrine taught by his father in chapter two. [2 Ne. 9] Of the concept that salvation is free, Jacob writes, quoting Isaiah 55:1–2: [Isa. 55:1–2]

“Come, my brethren, every one that thirsteth, come ye to the waters; and he that hath no money, come buy and eat; yea, come buy wine and milk without money and without price.

“Wherefore, do not spend money for that which is of no worth, nor your labor for that which cannot satisfy.” (2 Ne. 9:50–51.).....

...... Two kinds of death came into the world through the Fall—physical death, or the separation of body from spirit, and spiritual death, or our separation from the presence of God. Through his death and resurrection, Christ overcame physical death for all of us; all mankind, therefore, will receive resurrection as an unconditional gift.

The Fall of Man and His Redemption

The Fall of Man and His Redemption

www.churchofjesuschrist.org

Why did Mormon jesus need to redeem "all mankind" from physical death caused by Adam if Adam didn't sin?

 

[CrowCross]

“If Adam had not transgressed he would not have fallen, but he would have remained in the garden of Eden. And all things which were created must have remained in the same state in which they were after they were created; and they must have remained forever, and had no end.

I never noticed the cherubim with flaming swords guarding the exit of the garden.

The quote also said....."

And all things which were created must have remained in the same state in which they were after they were created"

Says who? Must have?

 

[CrowCross]

The proof has been presented....the mormon account concerning Adam and Eve the fall and having children...is Satanic.

 

[Aaron32]

Hey, A&E, you want to have kids like I tolds you to?....first you must sin and disobey me.

Shortly after the creation of Adam and Eve God told them to....

Gen 1:28 God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth and subdue it; rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and every creature that crawls upon the earth.”​

After the creation of Adam another command was given ...

Gen 3:16 And the LORD God commanded him, “You may eat freely from every tree of the garden, 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil; for in the day that you eat of it, you will surely die.”​

But, according to Mormon "theology" we are told in order for Adam and Eve to be able to have children what has been know to be the fall and banishment from the garden had to occur first.

According to Mormon material....
“If Adam had not transgressed he would not have fallen, but he would have remained in the garden of Eden. And all things which were created must have remained in the same state in which they were after they were created; and they must have remained forever, and had no end.

“And [Adam and Eve] would have had no children; wherefore they would have remained in a state of innocence, having no joy, for they knew no misery; doing no good, for they knew no sin."

“And Eve, his wife, heard all these things and was glad, saying: Were it not for our transgression we never should have had seed, and never should have known good and evil, and the joy of our redemption, and the eternal life which God giveth unto all the obedient” (Moses 5:10–11).

Mormon theology teaches that God gave a commandment to Adam and Eve to be fruitful and multiply....but in order to fulfill that command which was to be fruitful and multiply they must DISOBEY the commandment not to eat the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

It's ironic how the book of Moses speaks of "Joy" that...."God giveth unto all the obedient”......then God expected Adam and Eve to be disobedient and fall...condemning all of mankind... to have this joy.

Everything in context.

First, how can one morally sin without the knowledge of good and evil? This type of sinning isn't the same as iniquity, out of rebellion, this is a transgression - a broken trust. More on "transgression" here:

Eve was beguiled by the adversary. Was she seriously deceived, or is that just her cover story?
Adam was commanded to be fruitful and multiply, but he knew he couldn't do that on his own, so he was forced to choose which commandment to keep. Interestingly enough, Adam was not given the same commandment Moses was given - thou shalt have no other gods before me, and yet in a way, that's the real sin he was guilty of - listening to Eve over God.

God informed Adam exactly what would happen if he partook of the fruit, he gave Adam agency to choose. This is also where the importance of biblical translation comes into play. The NAS translates the command as "shalt", by the KJV translates it as "shalt not", and the hebrew (according to Biblehub) doesn't really indicate the "must" or "should" either way: https://biblehub.com/text/genesis/2-17.htm

The moral take away, according to Paul, is that Adam did exactly what he should have done:
Eph 5:
25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.
29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:
31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
33 Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; ...

There is absolutly no Biblical basics for this theology. In fact to suggest someone be disobedient to God so they may gain is evil and Satanic.

While I agree with your sentiment, I believe this conclusion from the garden is wrong. Adam didn't have to gain anything. He was already given dominion over the earth.
He was commanded to multiply, but it's quite possible that he didn't know how to because of his ignorance, just as men are commanded to love God, and will be condemned if they don't. But men are not born with the knowledge to love God, they must be taught it (via the word), and they must receive it.

In any case, IF Adam did contrary to what he was supposed to, permitting the woman to be cast out, and Adam remaining the garden would that have been God's will? How do you make sense of Cor 11:11In the Lord, however, woman is not independent of man, nor is man independent of woman. 12 For just as woman came from man, so also man is born of woman. But everything comes from God.

 

[Janice Bower]

What God calls sin is sin. Humans will try to argue with God. That too is sin.