Hey, A&E, you want to have kids like I tolds you to?....first you must sin and disobey me.

[CrowCross]

Why, because I choose to give Adam the benefit of the doubt?
Comdemn him all you want, but you're really condemning yourself, because you are of the same nature.

Yes, we are all condemned (John 3:18)...thanks to the fall of Adam you consider as a "good thing".

Adam's fall however, was a good thing

 

[Aaron32]

Joseph Smith:

18 My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)—and which I should join.

19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: “they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.”


20 He again forbade me to join with any of them; and many other things did he say unto me, which I cannot write at this time. When I came to myself again, I found myself lying on my back, looking up into heaven. When the light had departed, I had no strength; but soon recovering in some degree, I went home. And as I leaned up to the fireplace, mother inquired what the matter was. I replied, “Never mind, all is well—I am well enough off.” I then said to my mother, “I have learned for myself that Presbyterianism is not true.” It seems as though the adversary was aware, at a very early period of my life, that I was destined to prove a disturber and an annoyer of his kingdom; else why should the powers of darkness combine against me? Why the opposition and persecution that arose against me, almost in my infancy?

Joseph Smith—History 1

Joseph Smith tells of his ancestry, family members, and their early abodes—An unusual excitement about religion prevails in western New York—He determines to seek wisdom as directed by James—The Father and the Son appear, and Joseph is called to his prophetic ministry. (Verses 1–20.)

www.churchofjesuschrist.org

Gal 5:19-20 Now the works of the flesh are ...hatred, variance,...wrath, strife...

Titus 1:15 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.

So God pointing out that preachers' hearts of the day were far from him is a work of the flesh?
As opposed to getting offended, can't you ask - "Lord, is it I?" (Matt 26:21-22)

 

[Aaron32]

"Adam's fall however, was a good thing".... Did ya all catch that?

Rev 20:15 And if anyone was found whose name was not written in the Book of Life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

Not so much of a good thing for them....Huh, Aaron32??? Yet another reason mormonism is demonic.

So are you saying Adam somehow invented hell and is responsible for the choices of evil men? Oh my!
You're saying you'd prefer non-existence, than being faced with the choice of good vs evil yourself? There's a lot of ways to read into this.
Can you clarify how you're tying Rev 20:15 in relevance to Adam's fall?

 

[Aaron32]

Yes, we are all condemned (John 3:18)...thanks to the fall of Adam you consider as a "good thing".

Read further:

John 3:19-21:
And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

How can we come toward the light when darkness isn't an option?
Again, if it's God's will that men should go straight to heaven, why place the tree of good and knowledge in the midst of the garden anyway?

It's quite fascinating how much you attribute to Adam while also dismissing God or Satan's contributions. Suppose Adam never partook of the fruit and was able to have children, do you honestly believe NOBODY would have partaken of the fruit? In the thousands of years since the garden, SOMEBODY would have spoiled the party - there's always a Gary in every group:

 

[Janice Bower]

So God pointing out that preachers' hearts of the day were far from him is a work of the flesh?
As opposed to getting offended, can't you ask - "Lord, is it I?" (Matt 26:21-22)

God, not Joseph Smith, told me that Mormonism is wrong and that Joseph Smith was a false prophet.

Come out from among them and be ye separate.

2 Corinthians 6
…16 What agreement can exist between the temple of God and idols? For we are the temple of the living God. As God has said: “I will dwell with them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they will be My people.” 17 “Therefore come out from among them and be separate, says the Lord. Touch no unclean thing, and I will receive you.” 18 And: “I will be a Father to you, and you will be My sons and daughters, says the Lord Almighty.”…

So I came out and asked 'What now?"

And God answered:

Proverbs 3
5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.

I was surprised that Mormons had said, "Follow the Prophet."

Hebrews 1
1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

You criticized CrowCross for being truthful but condone a false prophet who repeatedly lied and criticized others.

 

[Aaron32]

God, not Joseph Smith, told me that Mormonism is wrong and that Joseph Smith was a false prophet.

Come out from among them and be ye separate.

Well, maybe your understanding of "Mormonism" is different from my understanding.

2 Corinthians 6
…16 What agreement can exist between the temple of God and idols? For we are the temple of the living God. As God has said: “I will dwell with them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they will be My people.” 17 “Therefore come out from among them and be separate, says the Lord. Touch no unclean thing, and I will receive you.” 18 And: “I will be a Father to you, and you will be My sons and daughters, says the Lord Almighty.”…

So I came out and asked 'What now?"

And God answered:

Proverbs 3
5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.

I was surprised that Mormons had said, "Follow the Prophet."

Hebrews 1
1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

this is an important distinction:

• what does "Follow the Prophet" mean to you?

If it's contrary to "Trust in the Lord" then obviously God led you in the right direction. That makes perfect sense.
This is why I continually go back to defining what "doctrine" is.

I don't view Mormon "doctrine" as @Markk does (or did while he was a member), regarding the GA's as Gods, believing every word that drops from their mouths was doctrine. I certainly don't believe they will save me. I viewed them as mouthpieces only as they spoke by the Holy Ghost.

Thus, I can follow the prophet AND Trust in the Lord. To me, there's no conflict. But I understand how that could have been the case for you.

You criticized CrowCross for being truthful but condone a false prophet who repeatedly lied and criticized others.

Can you be more specific. I'd like to defend myself for such a broad criticism.
What truth did I criticize CrowCross for? What lies or criticisms of prophets am I condoning?
Are you humble enough to recognize your own bias?

 

[CrowCross]

So are you saying Adam somehow invented hell and is responsible for the choices of evil men? Oh my!

Dude, no fall = no evil men. Despite what the satanic mormon theology teaches.

You're saying you'd prefer non-existence, than being faced with the choice of good vs evil yourself? There's a lot of ways to read into this.

Non existence???? That makes no sense.

Can you clarify how you're tying Rev 20:15 in relevance to Adam's fall?

No fall means no one goes to hell.

 

[CrowCross]

Read further:

John 3:19-21:
And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

How can we come toward the light when darkness isn't an option?

No fall means we would have been born into the light.

Again, if it's God's will that men should go straight to heaven, why place the tree of good and knowledge in the midst of the garden anyway?

It's quite fascinating how much you attribute to Adam while also dismissing God or Satan's contributions. Suppose Adam never partook of the fruit and was able to have children, do you honestly believe NOBODY would have partaken of the fruit? In the thousands of years since the garden, SOMEBODY would have spoiled the party - there's always a Gary in every group:

 

[Aaron32]

Dude, no fall = no evil men. Despite what the satanic mormon theology teaches.

Non existence???? That makes no sense.

If Adam and Eve could not have children because they did not partake of the fruit, according to the BoM, you would not be born.
If those are the options, which would you prefer?

 

[Aaron32]

No fall means we would have been born into the light.

And the serpent would still be present. So, again, someone would have given in eventually.

 

[CrowCross]

If Adam and Eve could not have children because they did not partake of the fruit, according to the BoM, you would not be born.
If those are the options, which would you prefer?

Well duhhhhhhhh.....but we know they could have had children prior to the fall ....which makes your point moot.....as well as the BoM in error. Are error that leads to a Satanic theology when they claim A&E had to disobey Gods command to have children.

 

[CrowCross]

And the serpent would still be present.

Says who?

So, again, someone would have given in eventually.

Someone? Who's the someone?

 

[Janice Bower]

So God pointing out that preachers' hearts of the day were far from him is a work of the flesh?
As opposed to getting offended, can't you ask - "Lord, is it I?" (Matt 26:21-22)

God never said that. Joseph Smith was a habitual liar!

“Come on! ye prosecutors! ye false swearers! All hell, boil over! Ye burning mountains, roll down your lava! for I will come out on top at last. I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him; but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet…When they can get rid of me, t he devil will also go” (History of the Church, Vol. 6, p. 408).

 

[Janice Bower]

So God pointing out that preachers' hearts of the day were far from him is a work of the flesh?
As opposed to getting offended, can't you ask - "Lord, is it I?" (Matt 26:21-22)

God never said that. Joseph Smith was a habitual liar!

“Come on! ye prosecutors! ye false swearers! All hell, boil over! Ye burning mountains, roll down your lava! for I will come out on top at last. I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him; but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet…When they can get rid of me, t he devil will also go” (History of the Church, Vol. 6, p. 408).

All churches except LDS are of the devil according to Mormon scripture:

Book of Mormon, 1 Nephi 14
An angel tells Nephi of the blessings and cursings to fall upon the Gentiles—There are only two churches: the Church of the Lamb of God and the church of the devil—The Saints of God in all nations are persecuted by the great and abominable church—The Apostle John will write concerning the end of the world. About 600–592 B.C.

10 And he said unto me: Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of God, and the other is the church of the devil; wherefore, whoso belongeth not to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great church, which is the mother of abominations; and she is the whore of all the earth.

11 And it came to pass that I looked and beheld the whore of all the earth, and she sat upon many waters; and she had dominion over all the earth, among all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people.

12 And it came to pass that I beheld the church of the Lamb of God, and its numbers were few, because of the wickedness and abominations of the whore who sat upon many waters; nevertheless, I beheld that the church of the Lamb, who were the saints of God, were also upon all the face of the earth; and their dominions upon the face of the earth were small, because of the wickedness of the great whore whom I saw.

13 And it came to pass that I beheld that the great mother of abominations did gather together multitudes upon the face of all the earth, among all the nations of the Gentiles, to fight against the Lamb of God.

14 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, beheld the power of the Lamb of God, that it descended upon the saints of the church of the Lamb, and upon the covenant people of the Lord, who were scattered upon all the face of the earth; and they were armed with righteousness and with the power of God in great glory.


Doctrine and Covenants 1
1–7, The voice of warning is to all people; 8–16, Apostasy and wickedness precede the Second Coming; 17–23, Joseph Smith is called to restore to earth the Lord’s truths and powers; 24–33, The Book of Mormon is brought forth and the true Church is established; 34–36, Peace will be taken from the earth; 37–39, Search these commandments.

29 And after having received the record of the Nephites, yea, even my servant Joseph Smith, Jun., might have power to translate through the mercy of God, by the power of God, the Book of Mormon.

30 And also those to whom these commandments were given, might have power to lay the foundation of this church, and to bring it forth out of obscurity and out of darkness, the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth, with which I, the Lord, am well pleased, speaking unto the church collectively and not individually
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________

“If it had not been for Joseph Smith and the restoration, there would be no salvation. There is no salvation outside The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.”
Apostle Bruce R. McConkie, 2nd edition of Mormon Doctrine under heading "Salvation"

 

[Aaron32]

God never said that. Joseph Smith was a habitual liar!

Joseph Smith/Narcissism/Boasting - FAIR

www.fairlatterdaysaints.org

 

[Aaron32]

Well duhhhhhhhh.....but we know they could have had children prior to the fall ....

How do "we" know? What evidence do you have that makes this knowledge and not an assumption?

 

[CrowCross]

How do "we" know? What evidence do you have that makes this knowledge and not an assumption?

Because God told them in an UNFALLEN STATE.....to be fruitful and multiply.

God didn't tell them that in order to be fruitful and multiply you guys must disobey me....

It would be sinful for God to have instructed them to sin....which is why the mormon belief is evil and Satanic.

 

[Aaron32]

Says who?

The serpent was in the garden, the serpent talked to Eve. What evidence do you have that the serpent would have been cast out?

Someone? Who's the someone?

Any of Adam and Eve's kids? Cain maybe?
Cain murdered able and was cast out in a similar way.

 

[CrowCross]

The serpent was in the garden, the serpent talked to Eve. What evidence do you have that the serpent would have been cast out?

The bible doesn't address that...

Where does the bible say the serpent would have tried again and again if he failed the first time?

Any of Adam and Eve's kids? Cain maybe?

According to you the kids wouldn't exist without the fall....now you present them as existing with no fall.

Your double speak is confusing.

Cain murdered able and was cast out in a similar way.

So what????

 

[Janice Bower]

How do "we" know? What evidence do you have that makes this knowledge and not an assumption?

By believing the Bible we know God's righteousness.