Hi everyone this is my first post about my church's doctrine

[Joseph]

Greetings brothers and sisters,

My name is Joseph, I was born into a Catholic family, and at the age of 21 I converted to "Christianity." I've always been curious about religion. I studied Islam, Bagad Vita, Scientology, and that's how I found Carm.org a few years ago. I was a returning visitor for a long time because I used to debate other "Christians." So in one way, I'm glad that the information here has helped me when I was a missionary from 2014-to 2016.

At the same time, I realized after a while that I myself was in a cult. I didn't want to share this information because this cult is the fastest-growing church in Southern Asia (Philippines). A few things I just want to share for context so that you may understand me a little better and hopefully bring some clarity to my distrust in organized religion.

Long story short, before the church, I lived my life full of sin. When I got baptized, within a year, I would drop out of college, quit my job, break up with my girlfriend, and move out of my house to go and live with the cult. I did not yet know this was a cult because the doctrine in my opinion was solid. It wasn't like any doctrine I'd ever seen before. I will share with you this doctrine. I'm no longer a member anymore so I won't be offended. They have pretty much cut all contact with me and it is said that the members are not even allowed to speak to me. I'm considered, "ex-communicated." This means for us, during communion, I would have to. leave the sanctuary because I wasn't allowed to partake in communion. Anyway, these are the 32 Doctrinal statements, never been realized to the public from what I know. Since I was a student pastor, I had access to many levels of secrecy.

To avoid attaching any files I will just paste the 32 doctrines revealed to bible students. there are 33 doctrines in total. Members would only get the first 10 or something.

32 Doctrinal Statements of the PMCC 4th Watch ​

1. We believe in the Holy Scriptures as verbally inspired by God and the sole authority for faith, life and conduct.

2. We believe in the Father whose glory is exceedingly bright whom no man hath seen nor seen; who is from everlasting to everlasting; with all the host of heaven standing before Him ready to obey His will.

3. We believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, as the Eternal Son of God, born of the Virgin Mary, conceived by the Holy Spirit, lived a sinless life, after preaching and doing great and mighty works, was sentenced to die by Pontius Pilate buried and rose from the dead and after showing Himself alive in many instances to His disciples, ascended to heaven from where He will come again to receive His followers and to judge the earth.

4. We believe in the Holy Spirit, as a member of the GodHead, with personality as the Father and the Son. Who also is omnipresent, omniscient, and omnipotent; who can teach and lead believers. He is the Vicar of Christ on earth, who convicts sinners; He perfects the saints in preparation for the second coming of Christ Himself.

5. We believe in the reality of Satan, who is the adversary of God and His children. Being defeated, Satan is destined for the lake of fire together with his followers.

6. We believe in man, being created good, in the image of God, fell to sin.

7. We believe in man's salvation, through the finished and redemptive work of Christ, by His suffering, death and resurrection.

8. We believe in salvation, attained through repentance to God and personal faith in Christ Jesus and His finished work at Calvary.

9. We believe in salvation, by grace through faith not of works. That believers have been atoned, regenerated, forgiven, justified, and to be glorified by Christ.

10. We believe in the free will of man, who can accept Christ and be saved or reject Him and be lost.

11. We believe in the one and only Apostolic Church of Christ, composed of true disciples in every nation and race, washed and forgiven, living under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. That this Church is glorious and was founded on Pentecost after the resurrection of Christ; was never cut off nor ceased to function; and will continuously be victorious until the second coming of Jesus Christ. That the gates of Hell cannot prevail against this glorious Church and though it suffers some light tribulation, the Holy Spirit will always invigorate it through the calling of new apostles in every hour or seasons when renewal is called for.

12. We believe in the perfection and holiness of the church, through the ministry of the Holy Spirit and the ministers who are completely surrendered to Him.

13. We believe in the Church government, whose authority is derived from the Holy Spirit through the Holy Scriptures, led by the apostles in the church to whom loyalty and obedience is due, as commanded by the Lord.

14. We believe in the living saints, in the fourth watch, who will not taste physical death until the promised second coming of Christ, but will be translated into a glorious body then.

15. We believe in the rapture of the saints, living and dead, who composed the Church which is the body of Christ. They will reign with Him a thousand years after the great tribulation mentioned in the scriptures.

16. We believe in obedience to the ruling of the government and the equality of all nations and races. (Titus 3:1-2)

17. We believe in the maintenance of good work such as visiting the sick and those in prison, helping those who are in need, and caring for the aged, widows, and orphans.

18. We believe in living a Holy and Godly life, not involved in worldly vices, whether it be lust of the eyes, the lust of the flesh, pride of life, and other acts that defile the body.

19. We believe in daily prayer meetings, devotions, and bible reading.

20. We believe in keeping the Lord's Supper and the first day of the week is the Lord's. This was commanded and observed by the early apostles.

21. We believe in water baptism by immersion.

22. We believe in baptism of the Holy Spirit, as the power and seal of the believer.

23. We believe in the continuous operation of the gifts of the Holy Spirit as found in 1 Corinthians 12:28-31 also in Ephesians 4:11-15.

24. We believe in the conscious existence of the soul.

25. We believe in the bodily resurrection of the dead, the just and the unjust.

26. We believe in the final judgment of the wicked and the punishment of the impenitent in hell.

27. We believe in the literal new heaven and new earth, as the final dwelling place of the saints.

28. We believe in the judgement seat of Christ where the saints will receive their rewards for what they have done for Christ and will also be rebuked for their sins whether it be sin of commission or omission.

29. We believe in tithes and offerings, as a means of financing the Lord's work.

30. We believe in the expulsion of the wicked persons from the Church, when found to be so.

31. We believe in the evangelization of the world and duty of every disciple to commit himself for personal witnessing for the Lord Jesus.

32. We believe the Lord Jesus is coming again in this watch, the 4th watch.


i don't know what to believe anymore. Any comments would be appreciated.


Thanks for reading this,

Joseph

 

[Arch Stanton]

Greetings brothers and sisters,

My name is Joseph, I was born into a Catholic family, and at the age of 21 I converted to "Christianity." I've always been curious about religion. I studied Islam, Bagad Vita, Scientology, and that's how I found Carm.org a few years ago. I was a returning visitor for a long time because I used to debate other "Christians." So in one way, I'm glad that the information here has helped me when I was a missionary from 2014-to 2016.

At the same time, I realized after a while that I myself was in a cult. I didn't want to share this information because this cult is the fastest-growing church in Southern Asia (Philippines). A few things I just want to share for context so that you may understand me a little better and hopefully bring some clarity to my distrust in organized religion.

Long story short, before the church, I lived my life full of sin. When I got baptized, within a year, I would drop out of college, quit my job, break up with my girlfriend, and move out of my house to go and live with the cult. I did not yet know this was a cult because the doctrine in my opinion was solid. It wasn't like any doctrine I'd ever seen before. I will share with you this doctrine. I'm no longer a member anymore so I won't be offended. They have pretty much cut all contact with me and it is said that the members are not even allowed to speak to me. I'm considered, "ex-communicated." This means for us, during communion, I would have to. leave the sanctuary because I wasn't allowed to partake in communion. Anyway, these are the 32 Doctrinal statements, never been realized to the public from what I know. Since I was a student pastor, I had access to many levels of secrecy.

To avoid attaching any files I will just paste the 32 doctrines revealed to bible students. there are 33 doctrines in total. Members would only get the first 10 or something.

32 Doctrinal Statements of the PMCC 4th Watch ​

1. We believe in the Holy Scriptures as verbally inspired by God and the sole authority for faith, life and conduct.

2. We believe in the Father whose glory is exceedingly bright whom no man hath seen nor seen; who is from everlasting to everlasting; with all the host of heaven standing before Him ready to obey His will.

3. We believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, as the Eternal Son of God, born of the Virgin Mary, conceived by the Holy Spirit, lived a sinless life, after preaching and doing great and mighty works, was sentenced to die by Pontius Pilate buried and rose from the dead and after showing Himself alive in many instances to His disciples, ascended to heaven from where He will come again to receive His followers and to judge the earth.

4. We believe in the Holy Spirit, as a member of the GodHead, with personality as the Father and the Son. Who also is omnipresent, omniscient, and omnipotent; who can teach and lead believers. He is the Vicar of Christ on earth, who convicts sinners; He perfects the saints in preparation for the second coming of Christ Himself.

5. We believe in the reality of Satan, who is the adversary of God and His children. Being defeated, Satan is destined for the lake of fire together with his followers.

6. We believe in man, being created good, in the image of God, fell to sin.

7. We believe in man's salvation, through the finished and redemptive work of Christ, by His suffering, death and resurrection.

8. We believe in salvation, attained through repentance to God and personal faith in Christ Jesus and His finished work at Calvary.

9. We believe in salvation, by grace through faith not of works. That believers have been atoned, regenerated, forgiven, justified, and to be glorified by Christ.

10. We believe in the free will of man, who can accept Christ and be saved or reject Him and be lost.

11. We believe in the one and only Apostolic Church of Christ, composed of true disciples in every nation and race, washed and forgiven, living under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. That this Church is glorious and was founded on Pentecost after the resurrection of Christ; was never cut off nor ceased to function; and will continuously be victorious until the second coming of Jesus Christ. That the gates of Hell cannot prevail against this glorious Church and though it suffers some light tribulation, the Holy Spirit will always invigorate it through the calling of new apostles in every hour or seasons when renewal is called for.

12. We believe in the perfection and holiness of the church, through the ministry of the Holy Spirit and the ministers who are completely surrendered to Him.

13. We believe in the Church government, whose authority is derived from the Holy Spirit through the Holy Scriptures, led by the apostles in the church to whom loyalty and obedience is due, as commanded by the Lord.

14. We believe in the living saints, in the fourth watch, who will not taste physical death until the promised second coming of Christ, but will be translated into a glorious body then.

15. We believe in the rapture of the saints, living and dead, who composed the Church which is the body of Christ. They will reign with Him a thousand years after the great tribulation mentioned in the scriptures.

16. We believe in obedience to the ruling of the government and the equality of all nations and races. (Titus 3:1-2)

17. We believe in the maintenance of good work such as visiting the sick and those in prison, helping those who are in need, and caring for the aged, widows, and orphans.

18. We believe in living a Holy and Godly life, not involved in worldly vices, whether it be lust of the eyes, the lust of the flesh, pride of life, and other acts that defile the body.

19. We believe in daily prayer meetings, devotions, and bible reading.

20. We believe in keeping the Lord's Supper and the first day of the week is the Lord's. This was commanded and observed by the early apostles.

21. We believe in water baptism by immersion.

22. We believe in baptism of the Holy Spirit, as the power and seal of the believer.

23. We believe in the continuous operation of the gifts of the Holy Spirit as found in 1 Corinthians 12:28-31 also in Ephesians 4:11-15.

24. We believe in the conscious existence of the soul.

25. We believe in the bodily resurrection of the dead, the just and the unjust.

26. We believe in the final judgment of the wicked and the punishment of the impenitent in hell.

27. We believe in the literal new heaven and new earth, as the final dwelling place of the saints.

28. We believe in the judgement seat of Christ where the saints will receive their rewards for what they have done for Christ and will also be rebuked for their sins whether it be sin of commission or omission.

29. We believe in tithes and offerings, as a means of financing the Lord's work.

30. We believe in the expulsion of the wicked persons from the Church, when found to be so.

31. We believe in the evangelization of the world and duty of every disciple to commit himself for personal witnessing for the Lord Jesus.

32. We believe the Lord Jesus is coming again in this watch, the 4th watch.


i don't know what to believe anymore. Any comments would be appreciated.


Thanks for reading this,

Joseph

Hello Joseph,

Have you prayed about your path forward?

 

[Joseph]

Hello Joseph,

Have you prayed about your path forward?

This is embarrassing of me to admit. I've gone back 7 times worst than before I found the church. I probably don't belong here. It's hard to really conceptualize without the full context of what I experienced during my time in the cult. I just feel empty now. Lonely. I eventually relapsed. I want to experience God in my life again. I haven't been praying. I feel ashamed. I feel as if I only pray when I want forgiveness but then I continue to sin.

 

[Arch Stanton]

This is embarrassing of me to admit. I've gone back 7 times worst than before I found the church. I probably don't belong here. It's hard to really conceptualize without the full context of what I experienced during my time in the cult. I just feel empty now. Lonely. I eventually relapsed. I want to experience God in my life again. I haven't been praying. I feel ashamed. I feel as if I only pray when I want forgiveness but then I continue to sin.

When you feel empty, reach out to Christ and tell Him your thoughts. I noticed you said that you have always been curious about religion... if you don't mind me asking, what brought you out of the Catholic Church?

 

[inertia]

..., I had access to many levels of secrecy.

Thanks for sharing Joseph. The phrase "levels of secrecy" within a Christian church doesn't coalesce well when illuminated by the freedom provided by God's light.

Stepping out of darkness and into the "light of the world" will provide much greater illumination along the pathway of your journey forward.
Further, there is good news about this particular path even though there are still rough patches that are meant to build your ( and my ) character along the way. "A person plans his course, but the LORD directs his steps." (Proverbs 16:9 )

" I tell you the solemn truth, the one who hears my message and believes the one who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned, but has crossed over from death to life. " (Jesus in John 5:24 )

Do you hear Jesus' message and believe the one who sent him?

___

 

[SteveB]

Greetings brothers and sisters,

My name is Joseph, I was born into a Catholic family, and at the age of 21 I converted to "Christianity." I've always been curious about religion. I studied Islam, Bagad Vita, Scientology, and that's how I found Carm.org a few years ago. I was a returning visitor for a long time because I used to debate other "Christians." So in one way, I'm glad that the information here has helped me when I was a missionary from 2014-to 2016.

At the same time, I realized after a while that I myself was in a cult. I didn't want to share this information because this cult is the fastest-growing church in Southern Asia (Philippines). A few things I just want to share for context so that you may understand me a little better and hopefully bring some clarity to my distrust in organized religion.

Long story short, before the church, I lived my life full of sin. When I got baptized, within a year, I would drop out of college, quit my job, break up with my girlfriend, and move out of my house to go and live with the cult. I did not yet know this was a cult because the doctrine in my opinion was solid. It wasn't like any doctrine I'd ever seen before. I will share with you this doctrine. I'm no longer a member anymore so I won't be offended. They have pretty much cut all contact with me and it is said that the members are not even allowed to speak to me. I'm considered, "ex-communicated." This means for us, during communion, I would have to. leave the sanctuary because I wasn't allowed to partake in communion. Anyway, these are the 32 Doctrinal statements, never been realized to the public from what I know. Since I was a student pastor, I had access to many levels of secrecy.

To avoid attaching any files I will just paste the 32 doctrines revealed to bible students. there are 33 doctrines in total. Members would only get the first 10 or something.

32 Doctrinal Statements of the PMCC 4th Watch ​

1. We believe in the Holy Scriptures as verbally inspired by God and the sole authority for faith, life and conduct.

2. We believe in the Father whose glory is exceedingly bright whom no man hath seen nor seen; who is from everlasting to everlasting; with all the host of heaven standing before Him ready to obey His will.

3. We believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, as the Eternal Son of God, born of the Virgin Mary, conceived by the Holy Spirit, lived a sinless life, after preaching and doing great and mighty works, was sentenced to die by Pontius Pilate buried and rose from the dead and after showing Himself alive in many instances to His disciples, ascended to heaven from where He will come again to receive His followers and to judge the earth.

4. We believe in the Holy Spirit, as a member of the GodHead, with personality as the Father and the Son. Who also is omnipresent, omniscient, and omnipotent; who can teach and lead believers. He is the Vicar of Christ on earth, who convicts sinners; He perfects the saints in preparation for the second coming of Christ Himself.

5. We believe in the reality of Satan, who is the adversary of God and His children. Being defeated, Satan is destined for the lake of fire together with his followers.

6. We believe in man, being created good, in the image of God, fell to sin.

7. We believe in man's salvation, through the finished and redemptive work of Christ, by His suffering, death and resurrection.

8. We believe in salvation, attained through repentance to God and personal faith in Christ Jesus and His finished work at Calvary.

9. We believe in salvation, by grace through faith not of works. That believers have been atoned, regenerated, forgiven, justified, and to be glorified by Christ.

10. We believe in the free will of man, who can accept Christ and be saved or reject Him and be lost.

11. We believe in the one and only Apostolic Church of Christ, composed of true disciples in every nation and race, washed and forgiven, living under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. That this Church is glorious and was founded on Pentecost after the resurrection of Christ; was never cut off nor ceased to function; and will continuously be victorious until the second coming of Jesus Christ. That the gates of Hell cannot prevail against this glorious Church and though it suffers some light tribulation, the Holy Spirit will always invigorate it through the calling of new apostles in every hour or seasons when renewal is called for.

12. We believe in the perfection and holiness of the church, through the ministry of the Holy Spirit and the ministers who are completely surrendered to Him.

13. We believe in the Church government, whose authority is derived from the Holy Spirit through the Holy Scriptures, led by the apostles in the church to whom loyalty and obedience is due, as commanded by the Lord.

14. We believe in the living saints, in the fourth watch, who will not taste physical death until the promised second coming of Christ, but will be translated into a glorious body then.

15. We believe in the rapture of the saints, living and dead, who composed the Church which is the body of Christ. They will reign with Him a thousand years after the great tribulation mentioned in the scriptures.

16. We believe in obedience to the ruling of the government and the equality of all nations and races. (Titus 3:1-2)

17. We believe in the maintenance of good work such as visiting the sick and those in prison, helping those who are in need, and caring for the aged, widows, and orphans.

18. We believe in living a Holy and Godly life, not involved in worldly vices, whether it be lust of the eyes, the lust of the flesh, pride of life, and other acts that defile the body.

19. We believe in daily prayer meetings, devotions, and bible reading.

20. We believe in keeping the Lord's Supper and the first day of the week is the Lord's. This was commanded and observed by the early apostles.

21. We believe in water baptism by immersion.

22. We believe in baptism of the Holy Spirit, as the power and seal of the believer.

23. We believe in the continuous operation of the gifts of the Holy Spirit as found in 1 Corinthians 12:28-31 also in Ephesians 4:11-15.

24. We believe in the conscious existence of the soul.

25. We believe in the bodily resurrection of the dead, the just and the unjust.

26. We believe in the final judgment of the wicked and the punishment of the impenitent in hell.

27. We believe in the literal new heaven and new earth, as the final dwelling place of the saints.

28. We believe in the judgement seat of Christ where the saints will receive their rewards for what they have done for Christ and will also be rebuked for their sins whether it be sin of commission or omission.

29. We believe in tithes and offerings, as a means of financing the Lord's work.

30. We believe in the expulsion of the wicked persons from the Church, when found to be so.

31. We believe in the evangelization of the world and duty of every disciple to commit himself for personal witnessing for the Lord Jesus.

32. We believe the Lord Jesus is coming again in this watch, the 4th watch.


i don't know what to believe anymore. Any comments would be appreciated.


Thanks for reading this,

Joseph

Hi.

I'd never heard of pmcc 4th watch before so I had to Google it.

Regardless of what church body you affiliate with, I want to encourage you to follow Jesus.

Not a church, not a social group.

I know that there are subcultures within churches, and sometimes they can get overwhelming.

I myself attend a Calvary Chapel, and have been involved with them for 3/4 of my life as a Jesus follower.

Looking at your list, it's pretty clear that you have an idea of what you believe. My question would become,

Do you know WHY you believe them.

Those items listed are what bible believing Jesus followers generally believe. But we have a reason why we are believing them.

I do however have what's probably going to be perceived as a semantic issue.

When I was introduced to Jesus, I did not "get converted to christianity."
I became what the bible describes as being Born Again. John 3:3-5, and 1 Peter 1:23.

We don't want you to just be a member of a religious institution or community.

We want you to actually KNOW God, and Jesus Christ. John 17:3.

So, while you can indeed continue to attend the pmcc, 4th watch, what do you think church affiliation is about?

Do you feel like you're out of place there?
Do you get the sense that people disdain, and view you as inferior to them?
Or are you simply feeling like an outsider, looking at a community of people who actually love Jesus and each other and are engaged in expressing the love of God in their community?

I can go on here, but we really just want you to follow Jesus and where you attend church is entirely up to you.

My wife and I used to live in a metropolitan region where there were numerous Calvary chapel churches. Now we live in a more rural area, and for 14 years we attended a small community church. We tried other denominational affiliations, but felt out of place and that we couldn't really connect and fit in.

Calvary chapel is a non-denominational affiliation which focuses on teaching the bible. Larger communities have more bible studies, home fellowships and more activities to engage in.

The goal is for you to know God and Jesus.

 

[RiJoRi]

Greetings brothers and sisters,

My name is Joseph, I was born into a Catholic family, and at the age of 21 I converted to "Christianity." I've always been curious about religion. I studied Islam, Bagad Vita, Scientology, and that's how I found Carm.org a few years ago. I was a returning visitor for a long time because I used to debate other "Christians." So in one way, I'm glad that the information here has helped me when I was a missionary from 2014-to 2016.

At the same time, I realized after a while that I myself was in a cult. I didn't want to share this information because this cult is the fastest-growing church in Southern Asia (Philippines). A few things I just want to share for context so that you may understand me a little better and hopefully bring some clarity to my distrust in organized religion.

Long story short, before the church, I lived my life full of sin. When I got baptized, within a year, I would drop out of college, quit my job, break up with my girlfriend, and move out of my house to go and live with the cult. I did not yet know this was a cult because the doctrine in my opinion was solid. It wasn't like any doctrine I'd ever seen before. I will share with you this doctrine. I'm no longer a member anymore so I won't be offended. They have pretty much cut all contact with me and it is said that the members are not even allowed to speak to me. I'm considered, "ex-communicated." This means for us, during communion, I would have to. leave the sanctuary because I wasn't allowed to partake in communion. Anyway, these are the 32 Doctrinal statements, never been realized to the public from what I know. Since I was a student pastor, I had access to many levels of secrecy.

To avoid attaching any files I will just paste the 32 doctrines revealed to bible students. there are 33 doctrines in total. Members would only get the first 10 or something.

32 Doctrinal Statements of the PMCC 4th Watch ​

1. We believe in the Holy Scriptures as verbally inspired by God and the sole authority for faith, life and conduct.

2. We believe in the Father whose glory is exceedingly bright whom no man hath seen nor seen; who is from everlasting to everlasting; with all the host of heaven standing before Him ready to obey His will.

3. We believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, as the Eternal Son of God, born of the Virgin Mary, conceived by the Holy Spirit, lived a sinless life, after preaching and doing great and mighty works, was sentenced to die by Pontius Pilate buried and rose from the dead and after showing Himself alive in many instances to His disciples, ascended to heaven from where He will come again to receive His followers and to judge the earth.

4. We believe in the Holy Spirit, as a member of the GodHead, with personality as the Father and the Son. Who also is omnipresent, omniscient, and omnipotent; who can teach and lead believers. He is the Vicar of Christ on earth, who convicts sinners; He perfects the saints in preparation for the second coming of Christ Himself.

5. We believe in the reality of Satan, who is the adversary of God and His children. Being defeated, Satan is destined for the lake of fire together with his followers.

6. We believe in man, being created good, in the image of God, fell to sin.

7. We believe in man's salvation, through the finished and redemptive work of Christ, by His suffering, death and resurrection.

8. We believe in salvation, attained through repentance to God and personal faith in Christ Jesus and His finished work at Calvary.

9. We believe in salvation, by grace through faith not of works. That believers have been atoned, regenerated, forgiven, justified, and to be glorified by Christ.

10. We believe in the free will of man, who can accept Christ and be saved or reject Him and be lost.

11. We believe in the one and only Apostolic Church of Christ, composed of true disciples in every nation and race, washed and forgiven, living under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. That this Church is glorious and was founded on Pentecost after the resurrection of Christ; was never cut off nor ceased to function; and will continuously be victorious until the second coming of Jesus Christ. That the gates of Hell cannot prevail against this glorious Church and though it suffers some light tribulation, the Holy Spirit will always invigorate it through the calling of new apostles in every hour or seasons when renewal is called for.

12. We believe in the perfection and holiness of the church, through the ministry of the Holy Spirit and the ministers who are completely surrendered to Him.

13. We believe in the Church government, whose authority is derived from the Holy Spirit through the Holy Scriptures, led by the apostles in the church to whom loyalty and obedience is due, as commanded by the Lord.

14. We believe in the living saints, in the fourth watch, who will not taste physical death until the promised second coming of Christ, but will be translated into a glorious body then.

15. We believe in the rapture of the saints, living and dead, who composed the Church which is the body of Christ. They will reign with Him a thousand years after the great tribulation mentioned in the scriptures.

16. We believe in obedience to the ruling of the government and the equality of all nations and races. (Titus 3:1-2)

17. We believe in the maintenance of good work such as visiting the sick and those in prison, helping those who are in need, and caring for the aged, widows, and orphans.

18. We believe in living a Holy and Godly life, not involved in worldly vices, whether it be lust of the eyes, the lust of the flesh, pride of life, and other acts that defile the body.

19. We believe in daily prayer meetings, devotions, and bible reading.

20. We believe in keeping the Lord's Supper and the first day of the week is the Lord's. This was commanded and observed by the early apostles.

21. We believe in water baptism by immersion.

22. We believe in baptism of the Holy Spirit, as the power and seal of the believer.

23. We believe in the continuous operation of the gifts of the Holy Spirit as found in 1 Corinthians 12:28-31 also in Ephesians 4:11-15.

24. We believe in the conscious existence of the soul.

25. We believe in the bodily resurrection of the dead, the just and the unjust.

26. We believe in the final judgment of the wicked and the punishment of the impenitent in hell.

27. We believe in the literal new heaven and new earth, as the final dwelling place of the saints.

28. We believe in the judgement seat of Christ where the saints will receive their rewards for what they have done for Christ and will also be rebuked for their sins whether it be sin of commission or omission.

29. We believe in tithes and offerings, as a means of financing the Lord's work.

30. We believe in the expulsion of the wicked persons from the Church, when found to be so.

31. We believe in the evangelization of the world and duty of every disciple to commit himself for personal witnessing for the Lord Jesus.

32. We believe the Lord Jesus is coming again in this watch, the 4th watch.


i don't know what to believe anymore. Any comments would be appreciated.


Thanks for reading this,

Joseph

Hello, Joseph, and welcome. First, I want you to know that I am praying for you!

A problem with cultic groups is that they sound like the real thing. ? I came across a site which describes the PMCC, (preachingchurch.wordpress{dot} com/2017/03/16/the-4th-watch-cult/amp/) and I'd like your opinion: does this description match your experience in PMCC?

I'd also like to share this:
8 signs of a cult / false teacher
1) Charisma & pride
2) Greed & fraud
3) Immorality
4) Enslaving authoritarian structure
5) Anger & intimidation
6) Exclusivity
7) Demanding loyalty & honor
8) Extra-Biblical revelation

God bless you,
--Rich

 

[Dizerner]

i don't know what to believe anymore. Any comments would be appreciated.

If it was just about the Jesus read of in the Bible, and not anything else, would you want to know him.

 

[Joseph]

When you feel empty, reach out to Christ and tell Him your thoughts. I noticed you said that you have always been curious about religion... if you don't mind me asking, what brought you out of the Catholic Church?

 

[Joseph]

When you feel empty, reach out to Christ and tell Him your thoughts. I noticed you said that you have always been curious about religion... if you don't mind me asking, what brought you out of the Catholic Church?

I did everything needed to be considered a true "Catholic." I prayed the Rosary, I went to confession, I had my first communion, and finally, I was "confirmed." It's quite a twist of a story but I was at my friend's house early in the morning. Jehovah's Witnesses would stop by his house every weekend and I happened to hear of this new gospel. A man telling me that Jesus didn't die on a cross, it was on a stake. I was curious and I never owned a Bible at the time. He gave me one called the New Word's Translation. So I decided, I'd start reading. I believe it was a verse about "do not worship idols." Coming from a heavily Catholic family, we had Virgin Mary and Baby Jesus statues everywhere. This was the beginning of my search for a new religion. I found the NWT version to be trash so I bought myself a real bible.

 

[inertia]

I did everything needed to be considered a true "Catholic." I prayed the Rosary, I went to confession, I had my first communion, and finally, I was "confirmed." It's quite a twist of a story but I was at my friend's house early in the morning. Jehovah's Witnesses would stop by his house every weekend and I happened to hear of this new gospel. A man telling me that Jesus didn't die on a cross, it was on a stake. I was curious and I never owned a Bible at the time. He gave me one called the New Word's Translation. So I decided, I'd start reading. I believe it was a verse about "do not worship idols." Coming from a heavily Catholic family, we had Virgin Mary and Baby Jesus statues everywhere. This was the beginning of my search for a new religion. I found the NWT version to be trash so I bought myself a real bible.

A "real" bible. Excellent choice.

Here is a reference that I believe that you will find handy ---- > Blue Letter Bible ( 15 English language versions at your fingertips )

I've used it for years and it's particularly convenient for an apologetics forum. ( Resources included )

_____

 

[Joseph]

Thanks for sharing Joseph. The phrase "levels of secrecy" within a Christian church doesn't coalesce well when illuminated by the freedom provided by God's light.

Stepping out of darkness and into the "light of the world" will provide much greater illumination along the pathway of your journey forward.
Further, there is good news about this particular path even though there are still rough patches that are meant to build your ( and my ) character along the way. "A person plans his course, but the LORD directs his steps." (Proverbs 16:9 )

" I tell you the solemn truth, the one who hears my message and believes the one who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned, but has crossed over from death to life. " (Jesus in John 5:24 )

Do you hear Jesus' message and believe the one who sent him?

___

Thanks for your reply. I believe in the founder of the religion. was a Free Mason before he established the church in 1972. The three levels of secrecy seem innocent at first. The first and usually only level people get to is after years of tithing. They give you an opportunity to "secure" the church. So the first level for men would be undercover security. When a new face shows up, you would be the one to follow this new person. See if they were spies, child predators, sex offenders, etc. Members usually aren't informed about the next levels. Women in the first level of secrecy would be the "love bombers." They pair you to someone close to your age and sort of create this relationship where you keep going just for her. If you're single of course. But love bombing doesn't have to be romantic, it's just a form of gaslighting. They get your social media and turn you into a celebrity overnight. 2nd level of secrecy is given to those who enter the ministry. This level entails more about finances. The percentage you keep for yourself is 50%, 20% for your own ministry or chapel. Then 30% gets sent to the main hub in the Philippines. So yeah I can't lie, I had some of the best moments of my life as a bible student-pastor. I got to travel everywhere on members' contributions. The next distinguisher is that you learn about the 32 doctrines of the church. You also learn to deny the existence of the 32 doctrines and you also learn there is 33. To get to the last level of secrecy you must be married. I think that's all you really need to understand. I'm sure it has something to do with sex.

Here's my belief
I believe in God the Father, who in essence shares the same eternal nature of Jesus, His Son. The Holy Spirit shares the exact same essence. All 3, form what I call the Godhead. I deny the doctrine of the trinity. But to a degree, we share the same understanding that God is One. There is only One God. Father is not Jesus, Jesus is not the Father, Holy Spirit is neither the Father nor The Son. I believe that Jesus was God in the flesh. I believe when Jesus defeated death, He left the Holy Spirit with us. So God has been and is always with us. I also believe the human interpretation of how God is One is something that we cannot understand as humans who are bound by space and time. We know God based on our human understandings of how we are wired. However, with God, such things as numbers and anything limiting would contradict the idea of a God who is omniscient, omnipresent, and omnipotent. I believe that the church is not a building, and that church is nothing more than a business. The true church is the body of believers. across the world who spread this message.

 

[Dizerner]

I hope you've renounced participation with such a manipulative and demonic system.

Come on over to the Trinity forum for some interesting discussion on doctrine.

 

[Joseph]

Hi.

I'd never heard of pmcc 4th watch before so I had to Google it.

Regardless of what church body you affiliate with, I want to encourage you to follow Jesus.

Not a church, not a social group.

I know that there are subcultures within churches, and sometimes they can get overwhelming.

I myself attend a Calvary Chapel, and have been involved with them for 3/4 of my life as a Jesus follower.

Looking at your list, it's pretty clear that you have an idea of what you believe. My question would become,

Do you know WHY you believe them.

Those items listed are what bible believing Jesus followers generally believe. But we have a reason why we are believing them.

I do however have what's probably going to be perceived as a semantic issue.

When I was introduced to Jesus, I did not "get converted to christianity."
I became what the bible describes as being Born Again. John 3:3-5, and 1 Peter 1:23.

We don't want you to just be a member of a religious institution or community.

We want you to actually KNOW God, and Jesus Christ. John 17:3.

So, while you can indeed continue to attend the pmcc, 4th watch, what do you think church affiliation is about?

Do you feel like you're out of place there?
Do you get the sense that people disdain, and view you as inferior to them?
Or are you simply feeling like an outsider, looking at a community of people who actually love Jesus and each other and are engaged in expressing the love of God in their community?

I can go on here, but we really just want you to follow Jesus and where you attend church is entirely up to you.

My wife and I used to live in a metropolitan region where there were numerous Calvary chapel churches. Now we live in a more rural area, and for 14 years we attended a small community church. We tried other denominational affiliations, but felt out of place and that we couldn't really connect and fit in.

Calvary chapel is a non-denominational affiliation which focuses on teaching the bible. Larger communities have more bible studies, home fellowships and more activities to engage in.

The goal is for you to know God and Jesus.

Hi Brother,

Calvary Chapel is actually down the street from the PMCC 4th Watch. Many of the members who were excommunicated became members of Calvary. I appreciate churches like yours because they offer a program to help people who. were victimized by cults. Their reintegration ministry is outstanding. I went for a few sessions but I have so much distrust in any establishment. It's sort of because I've seen firsthand how lucrative the business of the church is. I hope to find a church but I seek to know Jesus deeper. After my mother died in 2017, I lost a lot of my belief in God.

 

[Buzzard]

Welcome to CRAM

Proverbs 1:1
1 The proverbs of Solomon the son of David, king of Israel;

2 To know wisdom and instruction; to perceive the words of understanding;

3 To receive the instruction of wisdom, justice, and judgment, and equity;

4 To give subtilty to the simple, to the young man knowledge and discretion.

5 A wise man will hear, and will increase learning;
and a man of understanding shall attain unto wise counsels:

6 To understand a proverb, and the interpretation;
the words of the wise, and their dark sayings.​

Greetings brothers and sisters,

i don't know what to believe anymore. Any comments would be appreciated.

Thanks for reading this,

Joseph

Proverbs 22:17
Bow down thine ear, and hear the words of the wise,
and apply thine heart unto my knowledge.
18 For it is a pleasant thing if thou keep them within thee;
they shall withal be fitted in thy lips.

19 That thy trust may be in the Lord,
I have made known to thee this day, even to thee.

20 Have not I written to thee excellent things in counsels and knowledge,
21 That I might make thee know the certainty of the words of truth;
that thou mightest answer the words of truth to them that send unto thee?​

Joseph;
spend several days just reading the Proverbs of Solomon
and the book of Ecclesiastes

To know wisdom and instruction; to perceive the words of understanding;​

 

[inertia]

Thanks for your reply. I believe in the founder of the religion. was a Free Mason before he established the church in 1972. The three levels of secrecy seem innocent at first. The first and usually only level people get to is after years of tithing. They give you an opportunity to "secure" the church. So the first level for men would be undercover security. When a new face shows up, you would be the one to follow this new person. See if they were spies, child predators, sex offenders, etc. Members usually aren't informed about the next levels. Women in the first level of secrecy would be the "love bombers." They pair you to someone close to your age and sort of create this relationship where you keep going just for her. If you're single of course. But love bombing doesn't have to be romantic, it's just a form of gaslighting. They get your social media and turn you into a celebrity overnight. 2nd level of secrecy is given to those who enter the ministry. This level entails more about finances. The percentage you keep for yourself is 50%, 20% for your own ministry or chapel. Then 30% gets sent to the main hub in the Philippines. So yeah I can't lie, I had some of the best moments of my life as a bible student-pastor. I got to travel everywhere on members' contributions. The next distinguisher is that you learn about the 32 doctrines of the church. You also learn to deny the existence of the 32 doctrines and you also learn there is 33. To get to the last level of secrecy you must be married. I think that's all you really need to understand. I'm sure it has something to do with sex.

Here's my belief
I believe in God the Father, who in essence shares the same eternal nature of Jesus, His Son. The Holy Spirit shares the exact same essence. All 3, form what I call the Godhead. I deny the doctrine of the trinity. But to a degree, we share the same understanding that God is One. There is only One God. Father is not Jesus, Jesus is not the Father, Holy Spirit is neither the Father nor The Son. I believe that Jesus was God in the flesh. I believe when Jesus defeated death, He left the Holy Spirit with us. So God has been and is always with us. I also believe the human interpretation of how God is One is something that we cannot understand as humans who are bound by space and time. We know God based on our human understandings of how we are wired. However, with God, such things as numbers and anything limiting would contradict the idea of a God who is omniscient, omnipresent, and omnipotent. I believe that the church is not a building, and that church is nothing more than a business. The true church is the body of believers. across the world who spread this message.

Wow! I was unaware of the steps one must take in order to advance in Free Masonry. Thanks for the introduction about the "secrets".

Another quick question: Do you understand that the Christian doctrine of salvation is exceedingly more important? It is deliverance and there is only one plan.

Note: The context and meaning for understanding are supplied by the links in blue above.

___

 

[Stella1000]

This is embarrassing of me to admit. I've gone back 7 times worst than before I found the church. I probably don't belong here. It's hard to really conceptualize without the full context of what I experienced during my time in the cult. I just feel empty now. Lonely. I eventually relapsed. I want to experience God in my life again. I haven't been praying. I feel ashamed. I feel as if I only pray when I want forgiveness but then I continue to sin.

I'm no expert but it sounds like you have an 'all or nothing' personality and it can be tiring living the extremes that involves. Maybe another path to God is via His unfathomable divine mercy?

I perform works of mercy in every soul. The greater the sinner, the greater the right he has to My mercy. My mercy is confirmed in every work of My hands. He who trusts in My mercy will not perish, for all his affairs are Mine, and his enemies will be shattered at the base of My footstool (Maria Faustina Kowalska, 723).

God bless.

 

[Dizerner]

Praying for you bro.

You know something that helped me. We can't know for sure you found a true salvation here, but you need to admit where you are with God. It may feel like you gave it a good attempt, but you need to be honest about your spiritual performance here, it is not good. You did not pursue something simply because you loved Jesus, you went from a worldly form of sin to a religious form of sin.

Knowing doctrines is not Christianity or godliness. The devil knows more doctrines than you and it just fills us with pride. A true sincere dedication and relationship with God, and a submission to allow him to work in you—just ask him to turn your heart, he will, anyone can simply ask.

The choice is really yours here, but never think some religious knowledge makes you okay. You need to talk to Jesus and mean it.

 

[SteveB]

Hi Brother,

Calvary Chapel is actually down the street from the PMCC 4th Watch. Many of the members who were excommunicated became members of Calvary. I appreciate churches like yours because they offer a program to help people who. were victimized by cults. Their reintegration ministry is outstanding. I went for a few sessions but I have so much distrust in any establishment. It's sort of because I've seen firsthand how lucrative the business of the church is. I hope to find a church but I seek to know Jesus deeper. After my mother died in 2017, I lost a lot of my belief in God.

I don't want this to be perceived as rude, but if you "lost a lot of" your faith in God because your mother died, your faith was in your mother, not God. God's love for us, draws him nearer to us when we go through the miseries of life.
My mother died in 2000. My grandmother died in 1994-- both during respective holiday seasons.
My grandfather died in 2002.
I'm a stage four metastatic melanoma cancer survivor, who's had 6 surgeries, over the course of 7 years, 4 years of chemo. 5 weeks of radiation therapy, some 65-70 MRI's of the brain, at least 60 whole torso CT scans, 13 whole body PET scans, more blood tests than I can recall. IT was during those dark years and experiences that brought me to the realization of God's love for me. It's written--- God is near to those who have a broken heart. Psalm 34:18, and Isaiah 57:15.

Anyone whose been following Jesus for any length of time, longer than a few years has seen firsthand how church can be perceived as a business.
But in all honesty, they have a property to give the Jesus followers a place to gather, that property has a building. That building requires utilities--- water for bathroom and maybe a kitchen use. It requires electricity to use for lighting, and other electronics.
It requires a staff to operate the daily activities and requirements of taking care of a body of believers, so payroll needs to be paid, which means taxes, benefits, etc.... Because, after all, we read that we should not muzzle the ox that treads out the corn, and a laborer is worthy of their wages.
Considering that we're told one of the gifts of the Spirit is administration (1 Corinthians 12:5), I'm not bothered that the church is required to operate as a business.
I am however required as a follower of Jesus to learn to understand God's Word (2 Timothy 2:15, 3:16-17, Hosea 4:6, Matthew 13:52), and one of the things I've learned in reading God's Word is that I have to keep my attention focused on Jesus (Hebrews 12:1-3), especially in the midst of the hardships I face in life-- and Jesus said I'd experience a lot of them (John 16:33).
By the way--- the church is the people who follow Jesus. It's not a building. So, when people cease needing to deal with such matters, then they will no longer need to operate responsibly, and require finances to do so.

Here's a further thought for your "distrust" of establishments.....
Do you have a job? Work for an employer? They're an establishment. They're a business. Do they give you activities to keep you gainfully employed? Do they pay you a wage, benefits, etc...?

We've all been burned on some level or another.
Jesus warned us--- there are many offensive things in this world which are simply unavoidable. But woe to those through whom they come.
I.e., life sucks! People are rude, mean, not entirely trustworthy, and may at times be utterly cruel. But we're not here to cowtow, or be crushed beneath their BS. We're here to follow Jesus.....

Jesus tells us in John 13-- a new commandment I give to you-- love one another.
Paul describes love in 1 Corinthians 13:4-8.

I have been reading this passage since I first became a believer, 44+ years ago. It's been the driving "credo" of my life, because I got so little of it growing up.
In learning about this, I've found nothing that shows love as being an emotional, ooey-gooey experience.
A singer back in the 60's was actually quite accurate when she sang about it....
Love hurts. Love wounds. Love scars any heart not strong enough to bear the pain.....

Love, bible/Jesus style is described as.....

4 Love:

suffers long and is kind;​

love does not envy;​

love does not parade itself, is not puffed up;​

5 does not behave rudely,​

does not seek its own,​

is not provoked, thinks no evil; 6​

does not rejoice in iniquity,​

but rejoices in the truth; 7​

bears all things,​

believes all things,​

hopes all things,​

endures all things.​

8 Love never fails.

I've long been taught that this is the kind of Love Jesus has for us.
We read in Romans 5 that while we were God's enemies, he loved us, and gave his only begotten son for us.

I'd like to ask you to listen to the books on this website.

Servant Quarters - Gayle Erwin

servant.org

He's an old Calvary Chapel pastor from the early years.

Servant Quarters - Books

servant.org

It's worth it.
Establishments, we live with them day in and day out.
They sell our groceries, our electronics, our gasoline, the hardware stuff we need to build, and create a safe environment to live in.

We can't get along on earth without people. God created us to engage with his people, for our growth in our faith in Jesus, as described in Ephesians 4, 1 Corinthians 12-14, 1 John 3-4, James.

Connect with a body of Believers, and learn to love them, and let them love on you, as much as Jesus loves you.

 

[Skeuos Eleou]

13. We believe in the Church government, whose authority is derived from the Holy Spirit through the Holy Scriptures, led by the apostles in the church to whom loyalty and obedience is due, as commanded by the Lord.

14. We believe in the living saints, in the fourth watch, who will not taste physical death until the promised second coming of Christ, but will be translated into a glorious body then

These two statements seem a bit weird. Do they say that there are apostles living on earth today, and command absolute obedience to them? Do they say that there are certain 'living saints' within the church right now who will not die until Christ returns?
If I have understood correctly, I advise you to get out, don't look back and find a regular Bible-believing church to attend. This one's a cult.