Hitler Slavery and Abortion

Eightcrackers

Well-known member
Where did I say possession is a requirement for them to be inherent. In fact I said exactly the opposite. Want me to restate my position AGAIN?
My question is this:

if I can deny you rights that you think are god-given, what is the practical difference between them being god-given, and being man-given?

Never mind going to the basis on which you would demand them back - that's abstract, and I've already said "no".
What is the practical difference.
 

Nedsk

Well-known member
My question is this:

if I can deny you rights that you think are god-given, what is the practical difference between them being god-given, and being man-given?

Never mind going to the basis on which you would demand them back - that's abstract, and I've already said "no".
What is the practical difference.
Ok so you're either being purposely obtuse or you really don't comprehend things. I have said this at least twice and I'm not inclined to do it a third time.
 

Eightcrackers

Well-known member
Ok so you're either being purposely obtuse or you really don't comprehend things. I have said this at least twice and I'm not inclined to do it a third time.
You answer the question you want to be asked, rather than the one you are asked.

I will take it that your ungiven answer is "there is no practical difference", because if there were, you would have elucidated it.

Mugger walks up to me:

"Give me your wallet."
"No."
BANG,
I'm dead.

Mugger walks up to you.

"Give me your wallet."
"I have an INHERENT right to life!"
BANG.
You're dead.

No difference between our corpses.
 

Nedsk

Well-known member
You answer the question you want to be asked, rather than the one you are asked.

I will take it that your ungiven answer is "there is no practical difference", because if there were, you would have elucidated it.

Mugger walks up to me:

"Give me your wallet."
"No."
BANG,
I'm dead.

Mugger walks up to you.

"Give me your wallet."
"I have an INHERENT right to life!"
BANG.
You're dead.

No difference between our corpses.
There is a difference and once AGAIN if you don't own your rights you have no reason to demand them back if they are taken from you. Period. That's called stealing.
 

Eightcrackers

Well-known member
There is a difference and once AGAIN if you don't own your rights you have no reason to demand them back if they are taken from you.
The reason is that I want them back.
What more do I need?
That's called stealing.
The government doesn't own my rights.
It merely has the power to grant them, or not.

If I'm sitting on a rock and somebody pulls me up and shoves me aside to claim a spot I'm sitting in, my picking them up and claiming it back is not stealing on my part. The rock doesn't "belong" to either of us.

Rights do not "belong", in the sense you mean, to either side.
 

Nedsk

Well-known member
The reason is that I want them back.
What more do I need?

The government doesn't own my rights.
It merely has the power to grant them, or not.
But if you don't own them then nobody has any reason to care what you "want".

If your govt grants them to you then you don't own them. But maybe you think your govt does but that's not the case here
 

BMS

Well-known member
My question is this:

if I can deny you rights that you think are god-given, what is the practical difference between them being god-given, and being man-given?

Never mind going to the basis on which you would demand them back - that's abstract, and I've already said "no".
What is the practical difference.
Are they rights though?
 

Eightcrackers

Well-known member
But if you don't own them then nobody has any reason to care what you "want".
And yet, people can reject the idea that rights come from gods and still do care about the rights of others.
Weird, eh?
If your govt grants them to you then you don't own them.
Neither does the government.
Depriving somebody of a thing doesn't mean you own that thing, yourself.
 

Nedsk

Well-known member
What is the difference between the two corpses, then?
Dying for a just cause is much different than dying because you're a whiner.

I've never claimed own our rights guarantees we get them but AGAIN I have no right to demand what isn't mine. This seems nor and more like purposeful obtuseness
 

Nedsk

Well-known member
And yet, people can reject the idea that rights come from gods and still do care about the rights of others.
Weird, eh?

Neither does the government.
Depriving somebody of a thing doesn't mean you own that thing, yourself.
No it's not weird but you have no right to demand whats not yours.

I like how you argue that your rights must come from the govt and you see no problem with it. I don't know where you are from but if you passes for average in Europe then I see why why things are the way they are there.
 

Eightcrackers

Well-known member
Dying for a just cause is much different than dying because you're a whiner.
How do we tell which corpse is which?
I've never claimed own our rights guarantees we get them but AGAIN I have no right to demand what isn't mine.
You don't need a right to demand rights.
That's a bootstrap paradox.
This seems nor and more like purposeful obtuseness
We are merely talking across each other.
You care about where rights come from; I only care about how they are enforced.

If I - a human - can deny you a right that you think comes from a god, the origin is irrelevant.
(Unless this god steps in directly, and when has that ever happened...)
 

Eightcrackers

Well-known member
No it's not weird but you have no right to demand whats not yours.
The government had no right to take it.
I like how you argue that your rights must come from the govt and you see no problem with it.
I am arguing that there is no practical difference between

1. rights coming from a god, but being enforced by humans, and
2. rights coming from humans and being enforced by humans.
 

Nedsk

Well-known member
How do we tell which corpse is which?

You don't need a right to demand rights.
That's a bootstrap paradox.

We are merely talking across each other.
You care about where rights come from; I only care about how they are enforced.

If I - a human - can deny you a right that you think comes from a god, the origin is irrelevant.
Not it's not irrelevant and I have told you three times now why. This is where the obtuseness shows itself.

This is what happens when people make govt their God
 

Eightcrackers

Well-known member
Not it's not irrelevant and I have told you three times now why. This is where the obtuseness shows itself.

This is what happens when people make govt their God
I deny you a right.

You: "but this right comes from my god! Give it back!"
Me: "No."

Now what?
 

Nedsk

Well-known member
The government had no right to take it.

I am arguing that there is no practical difference between

1. rights coming from a god, but being enforced by humans, and
2. rights coming from humans and being enforced by humans.
Not if they own them.

The reason people like Hitler arise is people like you.
 

Eightcrackers

Well-known member
Not if they own them.

The reason people like Hitler arise is people like you.
And the reason people like Hitler succeed is that your god doesn't step in and enforce the rights he supposedly grants to all the victims.

I'm sure the 10+million Holocaust casualities are enjoying their god-given right to life.
 

Nedsk

Well-known member
I deny you a right.

You say "but this right comes from my god! Give it back!"
Me: "No."

Now what?
Its given to me from God.

I take whatever steps necessary to try and retrieve my rights. Might I die in doing so? Yes. Am I acting justly in trying to retrieve what was unjustly stolen? Yes

Tell me right come form man isn't a guarantee i get my right either so the corpse thing is stupidity.
 
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