You aren’t a berean Christian.
They made sure what Paul taught was in scripture. You can’t do that nor do you want to.
Who taught you the holy womb nonsense? Or did you just come up with that on your own?
Holy, Holy, Holy
- Thread starter dingoling.
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They made sure what Paul taught was in scripture. You can’t do that nor do you want to.
Who taught you the holy womb nonsense? Or did you just come up with that on your own?
1Thess521
Well-known member
really?
here are 2 easy ones
Can you pray to a non-deity?
Can you baptize without immersion?
Our Lord's God
Well-known member
Could you add just one more option?
Which one is more Holy?
- The ark of the covenant in the Holy of Holies
- Mary's womb with the creator of the universe in it
- every follower of Jesus who has God the Father dwelling in them
pilgrim
Well-known member
Do men fall down dead if they accidentally touch you, as happened with the ark?
Our Lord's God
Well-known member
No, God allows men to touch me.
Just as God allowed men to nail His son to a cross. Was the ark holier than him?
Got another excuse you would like to try out?
pilgrim
Well-known member
Jesus on the Cross wasn't one of the options.
And I see you compared your holiness to the Lord's. Sounds like a humility problem.
Our Lord's God
Well-known member
Oh, is that so?
Can you tell us if the ark was more holy than Jesus because of what happens if you touch it?
Where?
Your response is shocking. The very point is to be conformed to the image of God's son and in him become the righteousness of God.
14 As obedient children, do not be conformed to the former lusts which were yours in your ignorance, 15 but like the Holy One who called you, be holy yourselves also in all your behavior; 16 because it is written, “You shall be holy, for I am holy.”
pilgrim
Well-known member
My response was truthful.
Our Lord's God
Well-known member
Your response was to tickle your own ears.
pilgrim
Well-known member
No my answer was truthful.
Our Lord's God
Well-known member
Because you desire it to be so?
pilgrim
Well-known member
It's a straightforward question. I wonder why no one has a straightforward answer?
dingoling.
Well-known member
They don't want to acknowledge what the church has acknowledge back to the very early Christians:
Athanasius of Alexandria (c. 296–373) was the main defender of the deity of Christ against the second-century heretics. He wrote: “O noble Virgin, truly you are greater than any other greatness. For who is your equal in greatness, O dwelling place of God the Word? To whom among all creatures shall I compare you, O Virgin? You are greater than them all O [Ark of the] Covenant, clothed with purity instead of gold! You are the ark in which is found the golden vessel containing the true manna, that is, the flesh in which divinity resides” (Homily of the Papyrus of Turin).
Gregory the Wonder Worker (c. 213–c. 270) wrote: “Let us chant the melody that has been taught us by the inspired harp of David, and say, ‘Arise, O Lord, into thy rest; thou, and the ark of thy sanctuary.’ For the Holy Virgin is in truth an ark, wrought with gold both within and without, that has received the whole treasury of the sanctuary” (Homily on the Annunciation to the Holy Virgin Mary).
The Catechism of the Catholic Church echoes the words from the earliest centuries: “Mary, in whom the Lord himself has just made his dwelling, is the daughter of Zion in person, the Ark of the Covenant, the place where the glory of the Lord dwells. She is ‘the dwelling of God . . . with men’” (CCC 2676).
Here are some parallels:
| Golden Box: Ark of the Old Covenant | Mary: Ark of the New Covenant |
|---|---|
| The ark traveled to the house of Obed-edom in the hill country of Judea (2 Sam. 6:1-11). | Mary traveled to the house of Elizabeth and Zechariah in the hill country of Judea (Luke 1:39). |
| Dressed as a priest, David danced and leapt in front of the ark (2 Sam. 6:14). | John the Baptist – of priestly lineage – leapt in his mother’s womb at the approach of Mary (Luke 1:41). |
| David asks, “How can the ark of the Lord come to me?” (2 Sam. 6:9). | Elizabeth asks, “Why is this granted me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?” (Luke 1:43). |
| David shouts in the presence of the ark (2 Sam. 6:15). | Elizabeth “exclaimed with a loud cry” in the presence of Mary (Luke 1:42). |
| The ark remained in the house of Obed-edom for three months (2 Sam. 6:11). | Mary remained in the house of Elizabeth for three months (Luke 1:56). |
| The house of Obed-edom was blessed by the presence of the ark (2 Sam. 6:11). | The word blessed is used three times; surely the house was blessed by God (Luke 1:39-45). |
| The ark returns to its home and ends up in Jerusalem, where God’s presence and glory is revealed in the temple (2 Sam. 6:12; 1 Kgs. 8:9-11). | Mary returns home and eventually ends up in Jerusalem, where she presents God incarnate in the temple (Luke 1:56; 2:21-22). |
Mary as the Ark Revealed by Items inside the Ark
| Inside the Ark of the Old Covenant | Inside Mary, Ark of the New Covenant |
|---|---|
| The stone tablets of the law – the word of God inscribed on stone | The body of Jesus Christ – the word of God in the flesh |
| The urn filled with manna from the wilderness – the miraculous bread come down from heaven | The womb containing Jesus, the bread of life come down from heaven (John 6:41) |
| The rod of Aaron that budded to prove and defend the true high priest | The actual and eternal High Priest |
A new day
Well-known member
Your parallels are nothing but wishful thinking from some rc priest on youtube that is desperately trying to justify the worship of a goddess. No where does Jesus or the apostles teach marian worship period. This goes against all other Scriptures which tell us to worship God only. And Jesus, Himself says...
Luke 4:8
Jesus answered, "It is written: 'Worship the Lord your God and serve Him only.
Doesn't matter if rc's use the words "venerate", "dulia", or "hyperdulia" or some other word that puts another person or object up on a pedestal to be adored. All is a form of giving God's glory to another, that He has already stated in Scripture that He will NOT share. The difference between “adoration” and “highest veneration” is difficult to see. Elevating mary with titles such as mediatrix, co-redemptrix, cause of our salvation, most holy mother of god, our Immaculate lady, and queen of heaven cannot help but foster mariolatry. Singing hymns to mary, praying to her, kissing her picture, parading her image through the streets, and bowing down before her statue reflect a degree of reverence that certainly imitates idolatry and might as well be called mariolatry.
Luke 4:8
Jesus answered, "It is written: 'Worship the Lord your God and serve Him only.
Doesn't matter if rc's use the words "venerate", "dulia", or "hyperdulia" or some other word that puts another person or object up on a pedestal to be adored. All is a form of giving God's glory to another, that He has already stated in Scripture that He will NOT share. The difference between “adoration” and “highest veneration” is difficult to see. Elevating mary with titles such as mediatrix, co-redemptrix, cause of our salvation, most holy mother of god, our Immaculate lady, and queen of heaven cannot help but foster mariolatry. Singing hymns to mary, praying to her, kissing her picture, parading her image through the streets, and bowing down before her statue reflect a degree of reverence that certainly imitates idolatry and might as well be called mariolatry.
Then why didn't Jesus say to the apostles bow down to my mother? Why didn't one apostle say Mary is the co mediatrix, co advocator? Why didn't the apostles make out this false typology? Why did not ONE apostle pray to her after she died? Why is there not ONE prayer to Mary after she died by anyone in the NT?
Jesus never said those things about Mary. In fact Jesus said others were greater or more blessed. Oh the fallible ecfs. They are misogynists for a start which shows they are fallible men.
dingoling.
Well-known member
Well we could also ask why didn't Jesus tell the man who asked what he must do to have eternal life about being saved by faith alone, or being imputed with the righteousness of Christ?
We don't know when Mary died. She was alive when the apostles were still alive. So the apostles wouldn't have recorded anything about praying to Mary.
if Mary was approx just 14-16 years of age
Christ was Born in 4BC
Christ began his ministry about 30 years of age
Mary would have been about 46 + years old
John an Apostle wrote Rev. 90AD +/-
are you saying Mary lived to be 100 plus years?????
Mind Boggoling amazing what the RCC'ers can come up with
Posters
as Paul says
"don't go beyond what is written"
1Thess521
Well-known member
Law to the proud
grace to the humble.
The man did not think he needed to be saved from anything
dingoling.
Well-known member
I said we don't know when she died, but she was living when the apostles were living, which is why none of the apostles wrote much about her.
dingoling.
Well-known member
But scripture says that Jesus was proclaiming the good news of the kingdom. What is the good news Jesus was proclaiming? Was it obtaining eternal life by keeping the commandments? Why didn't Jesus tell the man about faith alone or about imputed righteousness?
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