How do athiests know if something is true or not?

SteveB

Well-known member
A long discussed idea, which has never actually been reasonably developed by atheists.

By what means do you measure truth?

Is it something you "just know"? Or do you have a methodical means to work it out and come to the conclusion that it's actually true?
 

Bob Carabbio

Well-known member
2Co 10:12
For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise.
 

SteveB

Well-known member
2Co 10:12
For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise.
Well....
you know that. :cool:
And
I know that..... :sneaky:

but they apparently think it's something more, or at least other, which they view as superior. :unsure:
I thought I'd give them the benefit of the doubt here, and see if they understand.🤷‍♂️
 

Gus Bovona

Active member
A long discussed idea, which has never actually been reasonably developed by atheists.

By what means do you measure truth?

Is it something you "just know"? Or do you have a methodical means to work it out and come to the conclusion that it's actually true?
The best way I'm aware of, based on its track record, is to observe the world and then develop predictions based on those observations and then test the predictions to see if they come true. If they do so consistently, then we can rely on them as much as anything.
 

Woody50

Well-known member
A long discussed idea, which has never actually been reasonably developed by atheists.

By what means do you measure truth?

Is it something you "just know"? Or do you have a methodical means to work it out and come to the conclusion that it's actually true?
Atheists cannot know truth...because there is none.

Just ask them about the boiling point of water. They cannot even get that right.

Indoctrination.
 

5wize

Well-known member
Atheists cannot know truth...because there is none.

Just ask them about the boiling point of water. They cannot even get that right.

Indoctrination.
I know I can get water to boil under the right circumstances.
 

5wize

Well-known member
A long discussed idea, which has never actually been reasonably developed by atheists.

By what means do you measure truth?

Is it something you "just know"? Or do you have a methodical means to work it out and come to the conclusion that it's actually true?
Methods. The methods must be substantiated as viable as well.

The Holy Ghost isn't a method. It's an emotional and psychological mental state. An unreliable garbage in/garbage out mechanism.
 

Woody50

Well-known member
I know I can get water to boil under the right circumstances.
LOL. I'm sure you can.

Does it matter that it doesn't boil at the same temp?

Not to me...but to "scientists," who went over their skis it does.

Good response, though.
 

GeneZ

Well-known member
Methods. The methods must be substantiated as viable as well.

The Holy Ghost isn't a method. It's an emotional and psychological mental state. An unreliable garbage in/garbage out mechanism.
Paul warned us about that kind of Christian.... And, many do exist that way.

Be fellow-imitators of me, brothers, and be watching the ones walking in this manner, just as you have us
as a pattern. For many walk as to whom I was often saying to you, and now even weeping say, they are
the enemies of the cross of Christwhose end is destruction, whose god is their stomach (emotions)
and glory is in their shame— the ones thinking the earthly things." Philippians 3"17-19

Body parts were often times used (bowels reigns, etc) to describe what we not refer to as human emotions.

"Stomach"or"belly" ... were often times used by the ancients to refer to their emotions. Many, Paul said not a few, followed after their emotions and made their emotions their god. All, while making justification by exploiting distortions of Scripture. Just like we see today.


Paul was in tears concerning them. Their emotions turned them into spiritual morons. For that's what they are. Enemies of the Cross.


In Christ.......
 

Nouveau

Well-known member
A long discussed idea, which has never actually been reasonably developed by atheists.

By what means do you measure truth?

Is it something you "just know"? Or do you have a methodical means to work it out and come to the conclusion that it's actually true?
Reason and evidence. The subject is epistemology, and it has in fact been developed in great detail by many atheists. Science is the methodological means for determining empirical truth. Logic and philosophy are the methodological means for determining a priori truth. But these are gigantically broad topics, so I'd recommend narrowing things down a bit if you want this to be productive.
 

Tercon

Well-known member
Reason and evidence.

If you believe your "reason and evidence", then they are just beliefs too. And if it has anything to do with the truth and reality, then it has to be in the form of a belief and if it isn't, then it isn't even knowable in reality.

The subject is epistemology, and it has in fact been developed in great detail by many atheists. Science is the methodological means for determining empirical truth. Logic and philosophy are the methodological means for determining a priori truth. But these are gigantically broad topics, so I'd recommend narrowing things down a bit if you want this to be productive.

Nonsense. Science isn't equipped to deal with the truth and reality, because the truth and reality is belief based and science excludes belief as a form of knowledge. But rather relies on the physical senses instead of belief.
 

Nouveau

Well-known member
If you believe your "reason and evidence", then they are just beliefs too. And if it has anything to do with the truth and reality, then it has to be in the form of a belief and if it isn't, then it isn't even knowable in reality.
That something is believed is not enough to make it reason or evidence. There is more to reason and evidence than the mere fact that it is believed. You seem to be confusing necessity and sufficiency once again.

Nonsense. Science isn't equipped to deal with the truth and reality, because the truth and reality is belief based and science excludes belief as a form of knowledge. But rather relies on the physical senses instead of belief.
Science works, and is clearly better equipped to deal with reality than certain CARM posters. And as usual you have it backwards - knowledge is a form of belief (specifically, the subset of belief that is both true and justified). Belief is not a form of knowledge because not everything believed is known or true.
 

Tercon

Well-known member
That something is believed is not enough to make it reason or evidence.

How can you know it is "reason or evidence" without believing it silly?

There is more to reason and evidence than the mere fact that it is believed. You seem to be confusing necessity and sufficiency once again.

No there isn't. We either believe the truth and experience reality or we choose to disbelieve it and you find yourself in a delusion.

Science works, and is clearly better equipped to deal with reality than certain CARM posters. And as usual you have it backwards - knowledge is a form of belief (specifically, the subset of belief that is both true and justified). Belief is not a form of knowledge because not everything believed is known or true.

Actually science can't even account for itself; without a believing mind in order for it to occur in.
 

Nouveau

Well-known member
How can you know it is "reason or evidence" without believing it silly?
I'm not claiming to. I agree that all knowledge requires a mind. You've confused sufficiency and necessity again.

No there isn't.
Yes there is. A bent spoon isn't evidence of telekinesis just because someone believes it is. Evidence requires more than just belief. It requires objective relations whereby the thing being evidenced really is the best explanation for the evidence.

Actually science can't even account for itself; without a believing mind in order for it to occur in.
And that might be relevant if only there were anyone here arguing that science can be done without a mind. But no-one's saying that.
 

5wize

Well-known member
Paul warned us about that kind of Christian.... And, many do exist that way.

Be fellow-imitators of me, brothers, and be watching the ones walking in this manner, just as you have us
as a pattern. For many walk as to whom I was often saying to you, and now even weeping say, they are
the enemies of the cross of Christwhose end is destruction, whose god is their stomach (emotions)
and glory is in their shame— the ones thinking the earthly things." Philippians 3"17-19

Body parts were often times used (bowels reigns, etc) to describe what we not refer to as human emotions.

"Stomach"or"belly" ... were often times used by the ancients to refer to their emotions. Many, Paul said not a few, followed after their emotions and made their emotions their god. All, while making justification by exploiting distortions of Scripture. Just like we see today.


Paul was in tears concerning them. Their emotions turned them into spiritual morons. For that's what they are. Enemies of the Cross.


In Christ.......
He also said in 1 Cor 15 that if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either. And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile;

Guess what.... the dead are not raised, ever. It just doesn't happen. The people Paul was trying to convince were correct and Paul was wrong.
 

SteveB

Well-known member
Methods. The methods must be substantiated as viable as well.
Ok. Do you have some examples to give us some idea to understand what you mean?


The Holy Ghost isn't a method. It's an emotional and psychological mental state. An unreliable garbage in/garbage out mechanism.
🤔
Hmm....
Ok. In my nearly 44 years experience with Jesus, I've never once heard, or met anyone who has ever taught the idea that the Holy Spirit is a method.

Where did you get this one from?
 

GeneZ

Well-known member
He also said in 1 Cor 15 that if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either. And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile;

Guess what.... the dead are not raised, ever. It just doesn't happen. The people Paul was trying to convince were correct and Paul was wrong.
The Resurrection is not supposed to happen all the time..
 
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