How do athiests know if something is true or not?

GeneZ

Well-known member
Can you prove this? If not it is an unfounded claim identical to saying ghosts have been with us since the dawn of time.

Jesus was a human sacrifice to God. The fact that you do not see this irony is amazing.

I have no idea what this means.
Twist the facts to suit your desired outcome. Act like you are ignorant to do so.

God never commanded human sacrifice. Pagan religions did so on a regular basis.

God forbade human sacrifice to the Jews.
“‘Do not have sexual relations with your neighbor’s wife and defile yourself with her.
“‘Do not give any of your children to be sacrificed to Molek, for you must not profane
the name of your God. I am the Lord.
“‘Do not have sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable."

Pagan religions at that time were doing all those things. Child sacrifice was a major part of their rituals. Today certain people love the idea of abortions. Man has not changed all that much. Only the modus operandi has.

You really did not know that?! Well then. You are not as knowledgeable as you pretend to be.

As far as Jesus? Jesus death was for the atonement of all mankind.'s sins. If you want to keep it shallow and superficial? Be my guest.

If God can not reach you? Who am I?

I just keep walking down the street.....
 

Lighthearted Atheist

Well-known member
Twist the facts to suit your desired outcome. Act like you are ignorant to do so.
Ad Hominum
God never commanded human sacrifice. Pagan religions did so on a regular basis.
God refused to forgive sin until he saw his son Jesus Christ tortured, crucified, and sacrificed. Once Jesus was dead then God forgave sin. Jesus died for our sins - he died to appease an angry god.

This human sacrifice to a god is the core of Christianity. How can you possibly not know this?
God forbade human sacrifice to the Jews.
“‘Do not have sexual relations with your neighbor’s wife and defile yourself with her.
“‘Do not give any of your children to be sacrificed to Molek, for you must not profane
the name of your God. I am the Lord.
“‘Do not have sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable."
Its really, really weird that you included the quotes about gay sex and adultery in a thread about human sacrifice. However, none of this changes the fact that God commanded the sacrifice of his son Jesus to forgive sin.

They talked about it last Sunday I am sure. Its kinda the main idea behind the faith.
Pagan religions at that time were doing all those things. Child sacrifice was a major part of their rituals. Today certain people love the idea of abortions. Man has not changed all that much. Only the modus operandi has.
I agree. Christianity is a religion based on human sacrifice. Not much has changed for the pagan roots.

However, Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, and almost all other religions on Earth do not celebrate a human sacrifice or pretend to drink human blood and eat human flesh. That is a Christian thing.

So if you find human sacrifice to be distasteful might i recommend Jainism? Its a great religion about kindness, peace, and non violence. No one will ask you to drink wine and pretend it is blood I promise.
You really did not know that?! Well then. You are not as knowledgeable as you pretend to be.
I am always eager to learn new things.
As far as Jesus? Jesus death was for the atonement of all mankind.'s sins. If you want to keep it shallow and superficial? Be my guest.
Atone to whom? Why did Jesus have to be crucified to pay for sin? It was to appease God. I am not sure you've really processed the 'why' of the Crucifixion.

“Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?”
If God can not reach you? Who am I?
Someone who claims to know the mind of a god and cannot demonstrate that it is true.
I just keep walking down the street.....
Me too! If I see you let's get coffee.
 

GeneZ

Well-known member
Ad Hominum

God refused to forgive sin until he saw his son Jesus Christ tortured, crucified, and sacrificed. Once Jesus was dead then God forgave sin. Jesus died for our sins - he died to appease an angry god.
Jesus was "dead" before He died physically. Notice how He said.."It is Finished!" before he breathed His last breath?

The type of death Jesus died was spiritual death. The kind of death all unregenerate people walk in.

Jesus died spiritually so that man could be made spiritually alive. Its why Jesus said that we need to be born a second time.

You are only soul and body. After being born again a man becomes body, soul, and human spirit.

The confusion and idiocy comes in because in the Church age those who believe are also given the gift of the Comforter, the Holy Spirit. Receiving the Holy Spirit now happens when one is born again. But, it was not always what being born again is involved with.

Being born again was always the means to regeneration. Every single Old Testament believer was made to be body, soul, and human spirit. They did not receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit like those in the church now does.

Without a human spirit? This is what Jesus called such as these...


Another disciple said to him, “Lord, first let me go and bury my father.”
But Jesus told him, “Follow me, and let the dead bury their own dead.”
Then he got into the boat and his disciples followed him. " Matthew 8:21-23​


Jesus calls the unregenerate "dead." Its why you are dead to all the spiritual realities going on around you.

When Jesus had the sins of the world poured upon his body? Our sins cut him off from communion with the Father and Holy Spirit...

That is why Jesus was FORSAKEN. His spiritual death is what saves man. His physical death was having finished his work of dying for our sins. Resurrection then became the promise of a new and astounding life that men are to receive if they be on the right side of God.

Too much at once is not good.....
 

GeneZ

Well-known member
Christianity is a religion... period. Full stop. These silly claims that it isn't a religion are nothing more than special case pleading and an embracement of the No True Scotsman fallacy.
Christianity has been turned into a religion by men. But, Christianity remains for those who find it from God.
 

Lighthearted Atheist

Well-known member
Jesus was "dead" before He died physically. Notice how He said.."It is Finished!" before he breathed His last breath?

The type of death Jesus died was spiritual death. The kind of death all unregenerate people walk in.

Jesus died spiritually so that man could be made spiritually alive. Its why Jesus said that we need to be born a second time.

You are only soul and body. After being born again a man becomes body, soul, and human spirit.

The confusion and idiocy comes in because in the Church age those who believe are also given the gift of the Comforter, the Holy Spirit. Receiving the Holy Spirit now happens when one is born again. But, it was not always what being born again is involved with.

Being born again was always the means to regeneration. Every single Old Testament believer was made to be body, soul, and human spirit. They did not receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit like those in the church now does.

Without a human spirit? This is what Jesus called such as these...


Another disciple said to him, “Lord, first let me go and bury my father.”
But Jesus told him, “Follow me, and let the dead bury their own dead.”
Then he got into the boat and his disciples followed him. " Matthew 8:21-23​


Jesus calls the unregenerate "dead." Its why you are dead to all the spiritual realities going on around you.

When Jesus had the sins of the world poured upon his body? Our sins cut him off from communion with the Father and Holy Spirit...

That is why Jesus was FORSAKEN. His spiritual death is what saves man. His physical death was having finished his work of dying for our sins. Resurrection then became the promise of a new and astounding life that men are to receive if they be on the right side of God.

Too much at once is not good.....
OK. But the central premise of Christianity is that God refused to forgive sin until after he saw his son crucified and killed. None of what you said changes that.

Jesus Christ was a human sacrifice to appease God's anger.

I did not think this was controversial. It is the core of Christianity.
 

GeneZ

Well-known member
OK. But the central premise of Christianity is that God refused to forgive sin until after he saw his son crucified and killed. None of what you said changes that.

Jesus Christ was a human sacrifice to appease God's anger.

I did not think this was controversial. It is the core of Christianity.
I hope you learn to understand this much..

Read the following, please. Carefully read.


After this, Jesus, knowing that now at last everything was completed,
in order that the scripture would be fulfilled, said, “I am thirsty.” A jar full
of sour wine was standing there, so they put a sponge full of the sour wine
on a branch of hyssop and brought it to his mouth. Then when he had
received the sour wine, Jesus said,It is finished and bowing his head,
he gave up his spirit." John 19:28-30



Jesus voluntarily died physically only after FINISHING salvation for sin.

His physical death was not for our sins. Otherwise, he would have had to say "It is Finished" after being Resurrected! Some keen theologians caught this. Mainstream teachers to often are usually dull and only want to know what is expected of them to know as to bond with their "tribe" (denomination).


Our salvation from sin was completed BEFORE Jesus died physically. For, a dead man can not declare "It is Finished!" He died after tellin us salvation from sins was completed while He hung on the Cross.

The Greek tense of tetelestai meant that what Jesus accomplished on the Cross was finish prior to when He spoke those words. And that it remains finished FOREVER!

The salvation for the penalty for sin was a completed act on the Cross that will last from one generation to the next... No unbeliever is going to hell for his sins.

grace and peace.......
 

Lighthearted Atheist

Well-known member
I hope you learn to understand this much..

Read the following, please. Carefully read.


After this, Jesus, knowing that now at last everything was completed,
in order that the scripture would be fulfilled, said, “I am thirsty.” A jar full
of sour wine was standing there, so they put a sponge full of the sour wine
on a branch of hyssop and brought it to his mouth. Then when he had
received the sour wine, Jesus said,It is finished and bowing his head,
he gave up his spirit." John 19:28-30



Jesus voluntarily died physically only after FINISHING salvation for sin.

His physical death was not for our sins. Otherwise, he would have had to say "It is Finished" after being Resurrected! Some keen theologians caught this. Mainstream teachers to often are usually dull and only want to know what is expected of them to know as to bond with their "tribe" (denomination).


Our salvation from sin was completed BEFORE Jesus died physically. For, a dead man can not declare "It is Finished!" He died after tellin us salvation from sins was completed while He hung on the Cross.

The Greek tense of tetelestai meant that what Jesus accomplished on the Cross was finish prior to when He spoke those words. And that it remains finished FOREVER!

The salvation for the penalty for sin was a completed act on the Cross that will last from one generation to the next... No unbeliever is going to hell for his sins.

grace and peace.......
I am sorry but no. Jesus died for our sins, right? Think it through.

Who had the power to punish man for sin? Who forgave sin? Who decided that Jesus had to die for sin? Who decided what was and was not a sin? Who Judged sin?

God. God determined that Jesus had to die. No one else in The Bible has the power to do that. Then God watched them torture his son Jesus, watched them crucify him, and watched Jesus slowly die while calling out to God - and God did nothing.

Because this is what God wanted.

Jesus was sacrificed to God to make God forgive our sins and not send us all to hell.

I am sorry this seems to upset you. But the symbol of your faith is a man nailed to a cross in agony. He has a crown of thorns and a spear wound in his side - the picture of pain and suffering. That is what you worship and pray to. I do not know how this is a surprise.

I do not know of any other religion that worships blood, pain, and human sacrifice like Christianity does.
 

GeneZ

Well-known member
I am sorry but no. Jesus died for our sins, right? Think it through.

Who had the power to punish man for sin? Who forgave sin? Who decided that Jesus had to die for sin? Who decided what was and was not a sin? Who Judged sin?

God. God determined that Jesus had to die. No one else in The Bible has the power to do that. Then God watched them torture his son Jesus, watched them crucify him, and watched Jesus slowly die while calling out to God - and God did nothing.

Because this is what God wanted.

Jesus was sacrificed to God to make God forgive our sins and not send us all to hell.

I am sorry this seems to upset you. But the symbol of your faith is a man nailed to a cross in agony. He has a crown of thorns and a spear wound in his side - the picture of pain and suffering. That is what you worship and pray to. I do not know how this is a surprise.

I do not know of any other religion that worships blood, pain, and human sacrifice like Christianity does.
You're way out of the loop.... Maybe someday you will be made able to understand. For now, you can not understand. Maybe you never will.

In the mean time....

I made an honest try.

And, I bid you 'good bye.'


wishing you grace and peace......
 

Lighthearted Atheist

Well-known member
You're way out of the loop.... Maybe someday you will be made able to understand. For now, you can not understand. Maybe you never will.
I understand just fine - you believe in things you cannot prove. That's cool! Lots of people do. I personally need proof for my beliefs.

But acting like I do not understand is just silly. Maybe the one thing I do not understand is why you'd believe in things you cannot prove to be real.

I agree with that. Maybe someday I'll understand why 80%+ of the world does this.

Maybe not :)
In the mean time....

I made an honest try.

And, I bid you 'good bye.'


wishing you grace and peace......
Same to you Gene.

Take care.
 

Woody50

Active member
He did say that. I paraphrased but yes - his argument is 'you better believe in God or you'll suffer'.

That is a well recognized and understood illogical, invalid argument - it is called The Appeal to Force. So I reject it - as does the rest of the logical world.

And if you do not care what CARM says then this is a very strange place for you to post.
Wait. Do YOU care what CARM says?

Tell the truth.
 

sbell

Member
A long discussed idea, which has never actually been reasonably developed by atheists.

By what means do you measure truth?

Is it something you "just know"? Or do you have a methodical means to work it out and come to the conclusion that it's actually true?
What do you mean by truth? And what do you mean by measure? Is it like the scientific method where we can measure the boiling point of water at sea level and come to some axiomatic statement or is it something different? What methodical means do you use to work out truth? I'm just trying to figure out the terms we're working with.
 

GeneZ

Well-known member
“You are a king, then!” said Pilate.​
Jesus answered, “You say that I am a king. In fact, the reason I was born and came into the world
is to testify to the truth. Everyone on the side of truth listens to me.”
“What is truth?” retorted Pilate. With this he went out again to the Jews gathered there and said,
“I find no basis for a charge against him.



We have ben baptized into in an old battle between those knowing, and those not being able to know.
 
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