How do the LDS collate those verses?

dberrie2020

Well-known member
Theo1689 said:
But he DIDN'T use it in Eph. 2:8-9...
And he DIDN'T use it in 2 Tim. 1:9...
And he DIDN'T use it in Tit. 3:5...
And he DIDN'T use it in Rom. 4:4-6...
And he DIDN'T use it in Rom. 11:5-6...

So he WASN'T talking about "the law" in those passages.
No one has made the claim Paul was referring to the Mosaic Law in every instance--only that (1) Paul differentiated between certain rituals of the Mosaic Law--and obedience to the gospel--and (2) Paul often was referring to the rituals under the Mosaic Law when referring to works, and/or that it was God's grace which brought man back to eternal life--not their obedience to God.

1 Corinthians 7:19---King James Version
19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

Romans 5:18---King James Version
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

In no place did Paul disassociate keeping the commandments with His grace unto eternal life:

1 Corinthians 6:9-10---King James Version
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

IOW--although eternal life had it's origins in God's grace alone, not our obedience, faith, endurance, belief, etc.--He only extends that grace to those who obey His commandments.(faith in Christ)

How do you collate your theology with the posted scriptures?
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
No one has made the claim Paul was referring to the Mosaic Law in every instance--only that (1) Paul differentiated between certain rituals of the Mosaic Law--and obedience to the gospel--and (2) Paul often was referring to the rituals under the Mosaic Law when referring to works, and/or that it was God's grace which brought man back to eternal life--not their obedience to God.

1 Corinthians 7:19---King James Version
19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

Romans 5:18---King James Version
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

In no place did Paul disassociate keeping the commandments with His grace unto eternal life:

1 Corinthians 6:9-10---King James Version
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

IOW--although eternal life had it's origins in God's grace alone, not our obedience, faith, endurance, belief, etc.--He only extends that grace to those who obey His commandments.(faith in Christ)

How do you collate your theology with the posted scriptures?

I notice that your post is about how LDS "collate" these verses.
I wonder if you're interested in hearing from BoJ, zerinus, or someone else.... ;)


I'm more interested in how LDS "collate" THESE verses, the ones you keep RUNNING AWAY from:

Eph. 2:8 ... And this is not your own doing ...
Eph. 2:9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
2 Tim. 1:9 who saved us ... not because of our works
Tit. 3:5 he saved us, not because of works ...
Rom. 4:5 And to the one who does not work ... his faith is counted as righteousness,
Rom. 4:6 ... the one to whom God counts righteousness apart from works:
Rom. 11:6 But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works;
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
I'm more interested in how LDS "collate" THESE verses, the ones you keep RUNNING AWAY from:

Eph. 2:8 ... And this is not your own doing ...
Eph. 2:9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
2 Tim. 1:9 who saved us ... not because of our works
Tit. 3:5 he saved us, not because of works ...
Rom. 4:5 And to the one who does not work ... his faith is counted as righteousness,
Rom. 4:6 ... the one to whom God counts righteousness apart from works:
Rom. 11:6 But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works;
You mean the ones I just addressed?

"No one has made the claim Paul was referring to the Mosaic Law in every instance--only that (1) Paul differentiated between certain rituals of the Mosaic Law--and obedience to the gospel--and (2) Paul often was referring to the rituals under the Mosaic Law when referring to works, and/or that it was God's grace which brought man back to eternal life--not their obedience to God.

1 Corinthians 7:19---King James Version

19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

Romans 5:18---King James Version
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

In no place did Paul disassociate keeping the commandments with His grace unto eternal life:

1 Corinthians 6:9-10---King James Version
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

IOW--although eternal life had it's origins in God's grace alone, not our obedience, faith, endurance, belief, etc.--He only extends that grace to those who obey His commandments.(faith in Christ)

How do you collate your theology with the posted scriptures?
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
For the 157th time, I'm not going to discuss "my" theology in the MORMONISM forum.
Stop going OFF-TOPIC.

Then you don't have any right to tell someone they have the wrong theology--when you can't even defend your theology:

1 Corinthians 7:19---King James Version
19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

Romans 5:18---King James Version
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

In no place did Paul disassociate keeping the commandments with His grace unto eternal life:

1 Corinthians 6:9-10---King James Version
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
 

Bonnie

Super Member
Actually, I have EVERY right to do so.



Actually, I can and HAVE defended my theology, even though I have no obligation do.
You simply respond, "Taint so!", and then ask the same stupid questions 10 million times.
You are correct, Theo--I am your witness to that fact (although the 10 million times was a teeny bit of an exaggeration). :) Others are witnesses to this fact, as well: Maggie, OG....on another board, TertiumQuid, BJBear, Nic....
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
Actually, I can and HAVE defended my theology, even though I have no obligation do.
You simply respond, "Taint so!", and then ask the same stupid questions 10 million times.

Bonnie said: You are correct, Theo--I am your witness to that fact (although the 10 million times was a teeny bit of an exaggeration). :) Others are witnesses to this fact, as well: Maggie, OG....on another board, TertiumQuid, BJBear, Nic....

Does anyone see a pattern here? It's the same answer--over and over--"I already answered that". Yes--and with the same answer--"I already answered that".

Why don't those who claim they have already answered that--engage the scriptures and answer why the scriptures defy their theology?

1 Corinthians 7:19---King James Version
19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

Romans 5:18---King James Version
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

In no place did Paul disassociate keeping the commandments with His grace unto eternal life:

1 Corinthians 6:9-10---King James Version
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Already answer that, please.
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
Does anyone see a pattern here? It's the same answer--over and over--"I already answered that". Yes--and with the same answer--"I already answered that".

Yep, we already DID answer that.
Right here:



Already answer that, please.

Already did.
Right here:
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
Yep, we already DID answer that.
Right here:


Already did.
Right here:

That's just an accusation I might be attacking faith alone theology. How does it answer how faith alone comport their theology to the witness of the Savior:

John 5:28-29---King James Version
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
That's just an accusation I might be attacking faith alone theology. How does it answer how faith alone comport their theology to the witness of the Savior:

1) You have posted a number of verses, and when we respond to them, you simply IGNORE our answers.

2) All your posts are asking about "how faith alone comport their theology", but this is NOT the "faith alone" forum, it is the "MORMONISM" forum, so your questions are OFF-TOPIC.

3) You REFUSE to respond to all our passages we cite which teach salvation is "not by works", yet you demand we respond to all YOUR passages, which is a blatant double standard.

4) You REFUSE to respond to our passages about "only one god existing", even though it is DIRECTLY relevant to this, the MORMONISM forum.


In short, you want to constantly retreat to OFF-TOPIC issues, and you refuse to address ON-TOPIC issues. And you want to run away from being put on the defensive (because you can't defend your bankrupt Mormonism), and just take "pot shots" at Christianity.

You are an EXCELLENT witness as to why there is no Spirit of God in Mormonism.
 

Bonnie

Super Member
1) You have posted a number of verses, and when we respond to them, you simply IGNORE our answers.

2) All your posts are asking about "how faith alone comport their theology", but this is NOT the "faith alone" forum, it is the "MORMONISM" forum, so your questions are OFF-TOPIC.

3) You REFUSE to respond to all our passages we cite which teach salvation is "not by works", yet you demand we respond to all YOUR passages, which is a blatant double standard.

4) You REFUSE to respond to our passages about "only one god existing", even though it is DIRECTLY relevant to this, the MORMONISM forum.


In short, you want to constantly retreat to OFF-TOPIC issues, and you refuse to address ON-TOPIC issues. And you want to run away from being put on the defensive (because you can't defend your bankrupt Mormonism), and just take "pot shots" at Christianity.

You are an EXCELLENT witness as to why there is no Spirit of God in Mormonism.
Yet another eye witness that verifies what I and Maggie, Tert and others have also attested to on CARM boards. We are your witnesses, Theo.
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
1) You have posted a number of verses, and when we respond to them, you simply IGNORE our answers.


3) You REFUSE to respond to all our passages we cite which teach salvation is "not by works", yet you demand we respond to all YOUR passages, which is a blatant double standard.

4) You REFUSE to respond to our passages about "only one god existing", even though it is DIRECTLY relevant to this, the MORMONISM forum.

Theo--I have started a thread entitled "not by works"--which you and Bonnie--and whoever will--can come and unload all of those verses--and we can discuss them, length and breath--at your heart's desire. In detail. All of them, Theo. I promise--I'll be there.
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
Theo--I have started a thread entitled "not by works"--which you and Bonnie--and whoever will--can come and unload all of those verses--and we can discuss them, length and breath--at your heart's desire. In detail. All of them, Theo. I promise--I'll be there.

You've dodged them the last 1500 times.

I see no reason to believe your "promise" now.
Mormons always and only play games, and run away from Scripture.

And you should know them by HEART by now, so we shouldn't have to bring them to you YET AGAIN.
 

Bonnie

Super Member
You've dodged them the last 1500 times.

I see no reason to believe your "promise" now.
Mormons always and only play games, and run away from Scripture.

And you should know them by HEART by now, so we shouldn't have to bring them to you YET AGAIN.
AS Dr. Phil has stated on his show: "The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior."
 
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