How does a Christian know?

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Lastdaysbeliever

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Yes, we Catholics believe that we are saved by grace, but that doesn't address the questions of the op.

That Scripture is very germane to the OP. It asks how does a "Christian" know the truth (how are we saved and which salvation do we enjoy, God's Grace or the RCC salvation). As a Christian I answered as I presume that question is your ultimate goal. But even if that's not your goal I'll also add 2 Timothy 3:16-17 to clarify since Scripture is God-breathed, and God cannot lie, we are guaranteed it is the truth. It all comes back to what is the truth you seek. Do you seek God's truth, what He says about His Grace for your eternal soul and only revealed in Scripture, or do you seek your self-appointed institutions "truth". I go with the former and deny the latter.
 

balshan

Well-known member
I was raised as a Catholic, but was steered away from the Catholic church by a nCCs. I was told not to listen to what the Catholic church says but what scripture says. Scripture alone, I was told, is a Christian's final/sole authority.

It took me over 25 years as born again nCCs before I realized that I still wasn't listening to what scripture was saying; I was again listening to what a church was telling me.

Stepping back and looking at Christianity as a whole what I see are 100's of voices/churches out there all telling me what I should believe as a Christian.

So my question is how does a Christian know what is the truth? How can a Christian know which church is teaching the truth?
Yes well we have seen your lack of logic in the way you interpret scripture. It is very flawed.
 

balshan

Well-known member
Following man no matter what denomination and the RCC is just a denomination is folly. Your problem is you never listen to God.
I will add most of scripture does not need any interpretation at all. Do not kill. Follow Jesus. Do not be sexually immoral. Flee sexual sins. Love the Lord your God with all your heart etc. Jesus was born of a virgin, died on the cross for us. That is not hard. Do not meat human flesh, not hard to understand. Do not consume blood, not hard to understand. Stay married, do not sleep around when married. Not hard to understand. I mean I have paraphrased scripture but it is not hard to understand.
 

Stella1000

Well-known member
I've been a practicing Catholic by the grace of God, since the day I was born 60 odd years ago. I clearly see a 'catholic' Church everywhere in the Scriptures in a hierarchy of authority passed on by the Apostles to Paul and the subsequent evangelists and then to local leaders. There is a body arbitrating under the guidance of the Holy Spirit on matters under contention, resolved for the Christian faithful. ie The Council of Jerusalem. There is a deposit of faith recognising letters and epistles and other writings that conform to Christs teachings and shared among the Christian faithful. The proto Scriptures. The Didache defining a manner of worship and celebrating the Lambs sacrifice.

The idea that all that catholicity was irrelevant to Christian faith after that time will never sway me away from a catholic Church.
 

balshan

Well-known member
I've been a practicing Catholic by the grace of God, since the day I was born 60 odd years ago. I clearly see a 'catholic' Church everywhere in the Scriptures in a hierarchy of authority passed on by the Apostles to Paul and the subsequent evangelists and then to local leaders. There is a body arbitrating under the guidance of the Holy Spirit on matters under contention, resolved for the Christian faithful. ie The Council of Jerusalem. There is a deposit of faith recognising letters and epistles and other writings that conform to Christs teachings and shared among the Christian faithful. The proto Scriptures. The Didache defining a manner of worship and celebrating the Lambs sacrifice.

The idea that all that catholicity was irrelevant to Christian faith after that time will never sway me away from a catholic Church.
yes we have seen the body and it not acting under the guidance of the HS. The HS would never have condoned the murdering of others, which your institution has done for centuries and that is because it followed the way of the Romans and not Jesus. The HS would never condone the hiding of sins, but your leaders have actually done that. The HS would never say pray to anyone other than God, which your leaders have authorized that. So many things your institution does, which prove it is not guided by the HS.
 

Carbon

Well-known member
I was raised as a Catholic, but was steered away from the Catholic church by a nCCs. I was told not to listen to what the Catholic church says but what scripture says. Scripture alone, I was told, is a Christian's final/sole authority.

It took me over 25 years as born again nCCs before I realized that I still wasn't listening to what scripture was saying; I was again listening to what a church was telling me.

Stepping back and looking at Christianity as a whole what I see are 100's of voices/churches out there all telling me what I should believe as a Christian.

So my question is how does a Christian know what is the truth? How can a Christian know which church is teaching the truth?
Once God opens your eyes, these problems will be gone. 🙂
 

Lastdaysbeliever

Well-known member
I've been a practicing Catholic by the grace of God, since the day I was born 60 odd years ago. I clearly see a 'catholic' Church everywhere in the Scriptures in a hierarchy of authority passed on by the Apostles to Paul and the subsequent evangelists and then to local leaders. There is a body arbitrating under the guidance of the Holy Spirit on matters under contention, resolved for the Christian faithful. ie The Council of Jerusalem. There is a deposit of faith recognising letters and epistles and other writings that conform to Christs teachings and shared among the Christian faithful. The proto Scriptures. The Didache defining a manner of worship and celebrating the Lambs sacrifice.

The idea that all that catholicity was irrelevant to Christian faith after that time will never sway me away from a catholic Church.

Just so I understand what you have written, how can you have been a practicing Catholic since the day you were born? I'm struggling with understanding how an infant can practice anything other then crying to be fed and pooping their diaper...(the last is tongue in cheek so please don't be offended).
 

Stella1000

Well-known member
Just so I understand what you have written, how can you have been a practicing Catholic since the day you were born? I'm struggling with understanding how an infant can practice anything other then crying to be fed and pooping their diaper...(the last is tongue in cheek so please don't be offended).
Practiced in the sense that I did what my parents did and believed what my parents believed. Then I did what the Church did an believed what the Church believed. As an older person developed by spiritual direction and scripture study, I try to do what Jesus did and believe in His teaching. But that discipline and obedience were gifted to me by first my parents and second by the Church and I've not abandoned either of those authorities mainly now so that I can model them for my children and grandchildren. Practice meets different needs at different times of your faith life.
 

PeanutGallery

Well-known member
Practiced in the sense that I did what my parents did and believed what my parents believed. Then I did what the Church did an believed what the Church believed. As an older person developed by spiritual direction and scripture study, I try to do what Jesus did and believe in His teaching. But that discipline and obedience were gifted to me by first my parents and second by the Church and I've not abandoned either of those authorities mainly now so that I can model them for my children and grandchildren. Practice meets different needs at different times of your faith life.
It's not called discipline; rather, it's called indoctrination. I've been there; until I picked up a Bible, read it and believed it.
 

dingoling.

Well-known member
There is only one body, and those who are in the body of Christ are set free from the bondage of sin. Knowing the truth is a CONSEQUENCE of being set free. In other words, it is the truth itself that sets one free, not the knowledge of the truth.

As long as one places knowledge above the truth, they're lost. Any and all churches which place knowledge as the fundamental way to find the truth are hopelessly deceived.
Yes Jesus said, "And this is eternal life, that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent."
 

dingoling.

Well-known member
Does this clarify any:
Rom 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Rom 10:11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
Yes, we confess with our mouths the Lord Jesus and we believe in our hearts that God raised him from the dead.
 

dingoling.

Well-known member
Here is something that will help you:

Cursed is the man who trusts in man.

It is important not to trust human institutions to be one's security.

If you feel insecure—seek God in prayer until you find him.
Just human institutions or humans too?

E.g. humans say that a person is saved by faith alone and not by works but God doesn't say that. So believing that a person is saved by faith alone and not by works we would putting our trust in humans.

So you are saying that we shouldn't do that?
 

dingoling.

Well-known member
The same way that rc's can claim that they are Christians. just because you say so dont make it so.
But that works both ways. Christians can claim that we are not Christians, or that our teachings are in error but just because they say so doesn't make it so.

What method is there then to determine the truth, who is correct?
 

Lastdaysbeliever

Well-known member
Practiced in the sense that I did what my parents did and believed what my parents believed. Then I did what the Church did an believed what the Church believed. As an older person developed by spiritual direction and scripture study, I try to do what Jesus did and believe in His teaching.

Parents play an important role in our early development and following their rules and emulating them is part of childhood. What a church does, like the RCC, following their rules because it's the church your parents went to, or where you first went and developed kinship with it, ok, I get that, but what is most important but placed last in your explanation (parents, church, spiritual direction, scripture study) should be first. I like the way Gotquestions explained it.

Timothy had incredible advantages. He was taught the Word of God by his mother and grandmother (2 Timothy 1:5), and he was discipled by Paul and served with Paul in ministry for years. Timothy knew the Word of God and was well-equipped. Even still, Paul tells Timothy that he needed to be diligent in the study of the Word and in rightly dividing the Word of truth. Without that continuing diligence in the Word, Timothy would not be able to stand firm, and he would not be able to maintain sound teaching. Paul warned Timothy to pay attention to himself and to his teaching (1 Timothy 4:16). Because all Scripture is God-breathed and is profitable for teaching, reproof, correction, and training in righteousness, it is exactly what we need in order to be equipped for every good work God intends for us (2 Timothy 3:16).



But that discipline and obedience were gifted to me by first my parents and second by the Church and I've not abandoned either of those authorities mainly now so that I can model them for my children and grandchildren. Practice meets different needs at different times of your faith life.

Obedience to what end? To what your parents and the RCC tell you to do and say. Submitting your will to their teachings out of obedience. Don't misunderstand me. It's wonderful you credit your parents and the RCC with giving you this character trait but what exactly does this produce? Love? Joy? Peace? Patience? Kindness? Generosity? Faithfulness? Gentleness? Self-control? No. These are the gifts of the Spirit that only come from God and no one else or any earthly institution. And we know this because Scripture tells us.
 
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