How does Calvinism explain this

TomFL

Well-known member
With its belief in a Total inability to understand the Gospel or spiritual truths or respond positively towards it

Matt. 13:18–22 —KJV
“Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower.
When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.
But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;
Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.
He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.”

One did not understand the word of the kingdom so that is no problem

yet another did understand receive it with joy but fell away in times of persecution

It is presumed Calvinists will say the man was never regenerated and that is why he fell away. It is not my purpose to question that but to ask

If he was never regenerated how did he understand the word of the Kingdom and how was he able to receive it with joy

Would not the Calvinist doctrine of total inability and the Calvinist interpretation of 1Cor 2:14 have made that impossible
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Tom.


yet another did understand receive it with joy but fell away in times of persecution
False Said nothing about that one understanding. The only one that was said about was the good ground hearer who bare fruit. That was the regenerate
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Tom.



False Said nothing about that one understanding. The only one that was said about was the good ground hearer who bare fruit. That was the regenerate
What did he receive with Joy ?

Receive is

lambanō

verb

Take, take hold of, grasp, seize; receive, get, obtain


How can he respond positively to the word of the kingdom

................................................................................


One did not understand the word of the kingdom so that is no problem

yet another did understand receive it with joy but fell away in times of persecution

It is presumed Calvinists will say the man was never regenerated and that is why he fell away. It is not my purpose to question that but to ask

If he was never regenerated how did he understand the word of the Kingdom and how was he able to receive it with joy

Would not the Calvinist doctrine of total inability and the Calvinist interpretation of 1Cor 2:14 have made that impossible
 

TomFL

Well-known member
What did he receive with Joy ?

Receive is

lambanō

verb

Take, take hold of, grasp, seize; receive, get, obtain


How can he respond positively to the word of the kingdom
Why was he persecuted because of the word so as to fall away

Matt. 13:21 —KJV
“Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.”

Every indication is that he received and understood the true word

Getting back to lambano

β. τὶ someth. fig. τὰ ῥήματά τινος receive someone’s words (and use them as a guide) J 12:48; 17:8. τὸν λόγον receive the teaching Mt 13:20; Mk 4:16 (for μετὰ χαρᾶς λ. cf. PIand. 13, 18 ἵνα μετὰ χαρᾶς σε ἀπολάβωμεν).—The OT is the source of λαμβάνειν πρόσωπον (s. πρόσωπον 1b, end) Lk 20:21; Gal 2:6; B 19:4; D 4:3.

William Arndt et al., A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature : A Translation and Adaption of the Fourth Revised and Augmented Edition of Walter Bauer’s Griechisch-Deutsches Worterbuch Zu Den Schrift En Des Neuen Testaments Und Der Ubrigen Urchristlichen Literatur (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1979), 464.

It is the same word as seen in John 1:12

John 1:12 —KJV
“But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:”

where it is equated with believing
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
What did he receive with Joy ?

Receive is

lambanō

verb

Take, take hold of, grasp, seize; receive, get, obtain


How can he respond positively to the word of the kingdom

................................................................................


One did not understand the word of the kingdom so that is no problem

yet another did understand receive it with joy but fell away in times of persecution

It is presumed Calvinists will say the man was never regenerated and that is why he fell away. It is not my purpose to question that but to ask

If he was never regenerated how did he understand the word of the Kingdom and how was he able to receive it with joy

Would not the Calvinist doctrine of total inability and the Calvinist interpretation of 1Cor 2:14 have made that impossible
They received it with joy but it doesn't say anything about they understand it. You added that yourself which is dishonesty with scripture.
 

TomFL

Well-known member
They received it with joy but it doesn't say anything about they understand it. You added that yourself which is dishonesty with scripture.
You better think again why would he be persecuted for a word he did not understand

The word receive (lambano) indicatse he believed the word of the kingdom not something else
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
You better think again why would he be persecuted for a word he did not understand

The word receive (lambano) indicatse he believed the word of the kingdom not something else
You made a false comment that you should retract. Show where it said they understand?
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Yes show where it says they understood? You deliberately made a false statement.
What could you not understand ?

Why was he persecuted because of the word so as to fall away

Matt. 13:21 —KJV
“Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.”

Every indication is that he received and understood the true word

Getting back to lambano

β. τὶ someth. fig. τὰ ῥήματά τινος receive someone’s words (and use them as a guide) J 12:48; 17:8. τὸν λόγον receive the teaching Mt 13:20; Mk 4:16 (for μετὰ χαρᾶς λ. cf. PIand. 13, 18 ἵνα μετὰ χαρᾶς σε ἀπολάβωμεν).—The OT is the source of λαμβάνειν πρόσωπον (s. πρόσωπον 1b, end) Lk 20:21; Gal 2:6; B 19:4; D 4:3.

William Arndt et al., A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature : A Translation and Adaption of the Fourth Revised and Augmented Edition of Walter Bauer’s Griechisch-Deutsches Worterbuch Zu Den Schrift En Des Neuen Testaments Und Der Ubrigen Urchristlichen Literatur (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1979), 464.

It is the same word as seen in John 1:12

John 1:12 —KJV
“But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:”

where it is equated with believing

retract your false theology
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
What could you not understand ?

Why was he persecuted because of the word so as to fall away

Matt. 13:21 —KJV
“Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.”

Every indication is that he received and understood the true word

Getting back to lambano

β. τὶ someth. fig. τὰ ῥήματά τινος receive someone’s words (and use them as a guide) J 12:48; 17:8. τὸν λόγον receive the teaching Mt 13:20; Mk 4:16 (for μετὰ χαρᾶς λ. cf. PIand. 13, 18 ἵνα μετὰ χαρᾶς σε ἀπολάβωμεν).—The OT is the source of λαμβάνειν πρόσωπον (s. πρόσωπον 1b, end) Lk 20:21; Gal 2:6; B 19:4; D 4:3.

William Arndt et al., A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature : A Translation and Adaption of the Fourth Revised and Augmented Edition of Walter Bauer’s Griechisch-Deutsches Worterbuch Zu Den Schrift En Des Neuen Testaments Und Der Ubrigen Urchristlichen Literatur (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1979), 464.

It is the same word as seen in John 1:12

John 1:12 —KJV
“But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:”

where it is equated with believing

retract your false theology
I know you made a deliberate false statement. Show us where it says they understood the word they received.
 

TomFL

Well-known member
I know you made a deliberate false statement. Show us where it says they understood the word they received.

Received is equated with believed

He believed the word of the kingdom not some other word

you need to think and retract your false theologyr

..................................................................
Why was he persecuted because of the word so as to fall away

Matt. 13:21 —KJV
“Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.”

Every indication is that he received and understood the true word

Getting back to lambano

β. τὶ someth. fig. τὰ ῥήματά τινος receive someone’s words (and use them as a guide) J 12:48; 17:8. τὸν λόγον receive the teaching Mt 13:20; Mk 4:16 (for μετὰ χαρᾶς λ. cf. PIand. 13, 18 ἵνα μετὰ χαρᾶς σε ἀπολάβωμεν).—The OT is the source of λαμβάνειν πρόσωπον (s. πρόσωπον 1b, end) Lk 20:21; Gal 2:6; B 19:4; D 4:3.

William Arndt et al., A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature : A Translation and Adaption of the Fourth Revised and Augmented Edition of Walter Bauer’s Griechisch-Deutsches Worterbuch Zu Den Schrift En Des Neuen Testaments Und Der Ubrigen Urchristlichen Literatur (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1979), 464.

It is the same word as seen in John 1:12

John 1:12 —KJV
“But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:”

where it is equated with believing
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
With its belief in a Total inability to understand the Gospel or spiritual truths or respond positively towards it

Matt. 13:18–22 —KJV
“Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower.
When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.
But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;
Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.
He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.”

One did not understand the word of the kingdom so that is no problem

yet another did understand receive it with joy but fell away in times of persecution

It is presumed Calvinists will say the man was never regenerated and that is why he fell away. It is not my purpose to question that but to ask

If he was never regenerated how did he understand the word of the Kingdom and how was he able to receive it with joy

Would not the Calvinist doctrine of total inability and the Calvinist interpretation of 1Cor 2:14 have made that impossible
There are two ways the Gospel Seed is believed in the Parable of the Sower; one by the Power of the Seed (not the power of the person) and/or by the Power of the Good Soil/Person. The combination of the Power of the Seed and the Power of the Good Soil produces Crops of various sizes. The Good Soil pictures Regeneration as it is 'freshly Tilled' (ready for Seed), or the Gospel is so powerful that it alone would Save any Soil it lands on if it weren't carried away; even the Trodden Soil where nothing grows. Jesus would then have to heal/Save the hardest Heart. The implication of the Parable though is that all stray Gospel Seed is carried away...
 
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ReverendRV

Well-known member
They received it with joy but it doesn't say anything about they understand it. You added that yourself which is dishonesty with scripture.
Matthew 13:23: But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.
Matthew 13:23 KJV

TomL, why did you stop at verse 22?
 
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TomFL

Well-known member
There are two ways the Gospel Seed is believed in the Parable of the Sower; one by the Power of the Seed (not the power of the person) and/or by the Power of the Good Soil/Person. The combination of the Power of the Seed and the Power of the Good Soil produces Crops of various sizes. The Good Soil pictures Regeneration as it is 'freshly Tilled' (ready for Seed), or the Gospel is so powerful that it alone would Save any Soil it lands on if it weren't carried away; even the Trodden Soil where nothing grows. Jesus would then have to heal/Save the hardest Heart. The implication of the Parable though is that all stray Gospel Seed is carried away...
You do not account for the one who received that is believed the word of the kingdom but fell away because of persecution

As i noted typically when dealing with those whom fall away Calvinists
will retort he was never really regenerated

ok

but if he was not regenerated how was he able to understand and believe with joy

the word of the kingdom so that he was persecuted for that word

According to Calvinism he should have not been able to understand it and certainly not respond with joy to it
 

TomFL

Well-known member
I know you made a deliberate false statement. Show us where it says they understood the word they received.
You know nothing

the man mention received that is believed the word of the kingdom

if he was believing something else he would not be receiving the word of the kingdom with joy and he certainly would be persecuted for the word of the kingdom

Its not complicated
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
You do not account for the one who received that is believed the word of the kingdom but fell away because of persecution

As i noted typically when dealing with those whom fall away Calvinists
will retort he was never really regenerated

ok

but if he was not regenerated how was he able to understand and believe with joy

the word of the kingdom so that he was persecuted for that word

According to Calvinism he should have not been able to understand it and certainly not respond with joy to it
I think that Matthew 13:23 answers by saying the Good Soil understood. The Good Soil is 'he' that understood...

Surely we agree the Good Soil understood, as Jesus said it understood. The Good Soil Received AND understood...
 

TomFL

Well-known member
I think that Matthew 13:23 answers by saying the Good Soil understood. The Good Soil is 'he' that understood...

Surely we agree the Good Soil understood, as Jesus said it understood. The Good Soil Received AND understood...
We are not talking about that man

we are talking about the man who received with joy the word of the kingdom

but fell away in time of persecution
 
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