How Eternal Life is Maintained

Icyspark

Active member
No one wants to die. No one especially wants to die forever. So what does the Bible say about eternal life? Let's start "in the beginning . . ."
Genesis 3:22
And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.So the Lord God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken. 24 After he drove the man out, he placed on the east side of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life.​

The title of this tree 🌳 gives away its purpose--LIFE. In the verses above we're informed the reason why God specifically banished "man" from the Garden of Eden: "He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, AND LIVE FOREVER." The purpose for the tree 🌳 then is apparently to provide eternal life!

Considering this fact in relation to the new creation we see that the Tree of Life will be restored to the new Earth. Let's flip to the last book of the Bible:

Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.

The Bible is clear that only God is innately immortal. Speaking of God Paul writes that He "ALONE is immortal and lives in unapproachable light." No human has this innate immortality, nor will they ever. According to the Bible saved humanity will gain immortality in their being allowed once again to reach out their hands to take from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.

A correct understanding of the purpose of the tree of life 🌳 will also unravel the belief that those who are not redeemed will live forever. If it's true that only God is immortal (and it is), and if it's also true that the redeemed maintain eternal life by eating from the tree of life (and it is), then the obvious conclusion is that those who do not have access to the tree of life 🌳 will not live forever.

I pray this helps.
 

Icyspark

Active member

Have you returned to the Shepherd and Overseer of your soul? 1 Peter 2:25

Save your people and bless your inheritance; be their shepherd and carry them forever. Psalm 28:9


"I will make an everlasting covenant with them that I will do them good and not turn away from them." (Jeremiah 32:39-40)


Hi JonHawk,

This is unrelated to the opening post, but thanks for the bump!
 

JonHawk

Well-known member
Icyspark said:
How Eternal Life is Maintained

JonHawk:
Have you returned to the Shepherd and Overseer of your soul? 1 Peter 2:25
Hi JonHawk,

This is unrelated to the opening post, but thanks for the bump!
Eternal life is certainly not maintained separate from Christ, remember that you were at that time excluded from the people of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of the promise, having no hope and without God in the world. (Eph 2:12)

And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 1 John 5:11
 

Icyspark

Active member
Icyspark said:
How Eternal Life is Maintained

JonHawk:
Have you returned to the Shepherd and Overseer of your soul? 1 Peter 2:25

Eternal life is certainly not maintained separate from Christ, remember that you were at that time excluded from the people of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of the promise, having no hope and without God in the world. (Eph 2:12)

And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 1 John 5:11


Hi JonHawk,

This post certainly comes a lot closer to addressing the issue raised in the opening post.

Jesus is our salvation and He gives us eternal life by giving us access to the tree of life 🌳 which when we eat from it we will "live forever." Eternal life is not maintained separate from Christ because He's the One who created the tree of life 🌳and He's the One who gives us access to it. No one is going to have immortality built in. Only God has that👇.

1 Timothy 6:13-16
13 In the sight of God, who gives life to everything, and of Christ Jesus, who while testifying before Pontius Pilate made the good confession, I charge you 14 to keep this command without spot or blame until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ, 15 which God will bring about in his own time—God, the blessed and only Ruler, the King of kings and Lord of lords, 16 who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see. To him be honor and might forever. Amen.

Are the angels immortal? Not according to what Paul says above ☝️.

So instead of trying to create disharmony with what the Bible says, why not choose to harmonize the texts? 🆗

God bless.
 

JonHawk

Well-known member
Icyspark said:
How Eternal Life is Maintained

JonHawk:
Have you returned to the Shepherd and Overseer of your soul? 1 Peter 2:25

Eternal life is certainly not maintained separate from Christ, remember that you were at that time excluded from the people of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of the promise, having no hope and without God in the world. (Eph 2:12)

And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 1 John 5:11
Hi JonHawk,

This post certainly comes a lot closer to addressing the issue raised in the opening post.

Jesus is our salvation and He gives us eternal life by giving us access to the tree of life 🌳 which when we eat from it we will "live forever."
And of course as you see it, the flaming sword guarding the way to the tree of life prevents you from eating the enduring fruit.
Eternal life is not maintained separate from Christ because He's the One who created the tree of life 🌳and He's the One who gives us access to it. No one is going to have immortality built in. Only God has that👇.

And that's precisely why the blessing is granted to those whose robes are washed by the blood of the Lamb, so that they have the right to the tree of life and may enter the city by the gates. Outside are the dogs, the sorcerers, the sexually immoral persons, the murderers, the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices lying. Rev 22:14-15
A correct understanding of the purpose of the tree of life 🌳 will also unravel the belief that those who are not redeemed will live forever.
Certainly redemption is essential.

The Incomparable Christ
Giving thanks to the Father, who has qualified us to share in the inheritance of the saints in light.
13 For He delivered us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son, 14 in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.
15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation: (Col 1)
 

Formersda

Active member
Hi JonHawk,

This post certainly comes a lot closer to addressing the issue raised in the opening post.

Jesus is our salvation and He gives us eternal life by giving us access to the tree of life 🌳 which when we eat from it we will "live forever." Eternal life is not maintained separate from Christ because He's the One who created the tree of life 🌳and He's the One who gives us access to it. No one is going to have immortality built in. Only God has that👇.

1 Timothy 6:13-16
13 In the sight of God, who gives life to everything, and of Christ Jesus, who while testifying before Pontius Pilate made the good confession, I charge you 14 to keep this command without spot or blame until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ, 15 which God will bring about in his own time—God, the blessed and only Ruler, the King of kings and Lord of lords, 16 who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see. To him be honor and might forever. Amen.

Are the angels immortal? Not according to what Paul says above ☝️.

So instead of trying to create disharmony with what the Bible says, why not choose to harmonize the texts? 🆗

God bless.
Are the angels immortal? Not according to what Paul says above. Can you prove from the bible angels are not immortal? Are there any verses which say that angels die? Is Gabriel dead?
 

Icyspark

Active member
Can you prove from the bible angels are not immortal? Are there any verses which say that angels die? Is Gabriel dead?


Hi Formersda,

I'm pretty sure I just did. Do you believe that God "ALONE is immortal"? That's what Paul says. That's in my Bible. Is it in yours? Or does your Bible look like this:

1 Timothy 6:11-16
11 But you, man of God, flee from all this, and pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, endurance and gentleness. 12 Fight the good fight of the faith. Take hold of the eternal life to which you were called when you made your good confession in the presence of many witnesses. 13 In the sight of God, who gives life to everything, and of Christ Jesus, who while testifying before Pontius Pilate made the good confession, I charge you 14 to keep this command without spot or blame until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ, 15 which God will bring about in his own time—God, the blessed and only Ruler, the King of kings and Lord of lords, 16 who ALONE is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see. To him be honor and might forever. Amen.

It's telling that you'd respond to a post which says God ALONE is immortal and then ask such questions. The fact that God ALONE is immortal appears to be a foreign concept to you. What is the issue here? Do you not understand what the word "alone" means?

a•lone​
adverb
indicating that something is confined to the specified subject or recipient.​
So if God ALONE is immortal, then how is it you're ascribing to angels this attribute? Would you also like to ascribe to them omniscience? How 'bout omnipresence? How 'bout omnipotence? Your stated beliefs align with those who follow another jesus and another gospel.

If God can provide an external method of living forever for His human creation, then why couldn't He likewise do the same for any of His other creatures?

Genesis 3:22
And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.So the Lord God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken. 24 After he drove the man out, he placed on the east side of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life.​

I pray this helps.
 

Common Tater

Active member
Hi Formersda,

I'm pretty sure I just did. Do you believe that God "ALONE is immortal"? That's what Paul says. That's in my Bible. Is it in yours? Or does your Bible look like this:

1 Timothy 6:11-16
11 But you, man of God, flee from all this, and pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, endurance and gentleness. 12 Fight the good fight of the faith. Take hold of the eternal life to which you were called when you made your good confession in the presence of many witnesses. 13 In the sight of God, who gives life to everything, and of Christ Jesus, who while testifying before Pontius Pilate made the good confession, I charge you 14 to keep this command without spot or blame until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ, 15 which God will bring about in his own time—God, the blessed and only Ruler, the King of kings and Lord of lords, 16 who ALONE is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see. To him be honor and might forever. Amen.

It's telling that you'd respond to a post which says God ALONE is immortal and then ask such questions. The fact that God ALONE is immortal appears to be a foreign concept to you. What is the issue here? Do you not understand what the word "alone" means?

a•lone​
adverb
indicating that something is confined to the specified subject or recipient.​
So if God ALONE is immortal, then how is it you're ascribing to angels this attribute? Would you also like to ascribe to them omniscience? How 'bout omnipresence? How 'bout omnipotence? Your stated beliefs align with those who follow another jesus and another gospel.

If God can provide an external method of living forever for His human creation, then why couldn't He likewise do the same for any of His other creatures?

Genesis 3:22
And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.So the Lord God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken. 24 After he drove the man out, he placed on the east side of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life.​

I pray this helps.
So if I understand you correctly, Lucifer would die at some point from old age?
 

shnarkle

Well-known member
No human has this innate immortality, nor will they ever.
Agreed.
According to the Bible saved humanity will gain immortality in their being allowed once again to reach out their hands to take from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.

A correct understanding of the purpose of the tree of life 🌳 will also unravel the belief that those who are not redeemed will live forever.
How did you come to this conclusion?
If it's true that only God is immortal (and it is), and if it's also true that the redeemed maintain eternal life by eating from the tree of life (and it is), then the obvious conclusion is that those who do not have access to the tree of life 🌳 will not live forever.
I would propose that they don't even exist in the first place.
I pray this helps.
 

Formersda

Active member
Hi Formersda,

I'm pretty sure I just did. Do you believe that God "ALONE is immortal"? That's what Paul says. That's in my Bible. Is it in yours? Or does your Bible look like this:

1 Timothy 6:11-16
11 But you, man of God, flee from all this, and pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, endurance and gentleness. 12 Fight the good fight of the faith. Take hold of the eternal life to which you were called when you made your good confession in the presence of many witnesses. 13 In the sight of God, who gives life to everything, and of Christ Jesus, who while testifying before Pontius Pilate made the good confession, I charge you 14 to keep this command without spot or blame until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ, 15 which God will bring about in his own time—God, the blessed and only Ruler, the King of kings and Lord of lords, 16 who ALONE is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see. To him be honor and might forever. Amen.

It's telling that you'd respond to a post which says God ALONE is immortal and then ask such questions. The fact that God ALONE is immortal appears to be a foreign concept to you. What is the issue here? Do you not understand what the word "alone" means?

a•lone​
adverb
indicating that something is confined to the specified subject or recipient.​
So if God ALONE is immortal, then how is it you're ascribing to angels this attribute? Would you also like to ascribe to them omniscience? How 'bout omnipresence? How 'bout omnipotence? Your stated beliefs align with those who follow another jesus and another gospel.

If God can provide an external method of living forever for His human creation, then why couldn't He likewise do the same for any of His other creatures?

Genesis 3:22
And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.So the Lord God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken. 24 After he drove the man out, he placed on the east side of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life.​

I pray this helps.
I understand what your saying with that one verse but you haven’t addressed my questions.
Is satan immortal? Is Gabriel dead?
Your the one who is saying I’m ascribing that attribute to angels I simply asked the question.
 

Icyspark

Active member
So if I understand you correctly, Lucifer would die at some point from old age?


Hi Common Tater,

If you read my entire post you would've encountered this sentence:

If God can provide an external method of living forever for His human creation, then why couldn't He likewise do the same for any of His other creatures?
We're not told how the angels maintain their existence, but certainly they could have access to their own version of a tree of life. Remember, God "ALONE is immortal."

God bless!
 

Icyspark

Active member
I understand what your saying with that one verse but you haven’t addressed my questions.
Is satan immortal? Is Gabriel dead?
Your the one who is saying I’m ascribing that attribute to angels I simply asked the question.


See my answer to Common Tater in post #14 above ☝️.
 

Icyspark

Active member
How did you come to this conclusion?


Hi shnarkle,

The opening post explains how I come to this conclusion.


I would propose that they don't even exist in the first place.


I'm not sure what you're proposing doesn't exist. The tree of life is singular and you used "they," so I'd have to count this out. That'd leave either God as not existing because the Trinity would qualify as a "they." Or you could be trying to discount Adam and Eve which would cause all sorts of havoc on the biblical narrative. Any way you slice it it's gonna be spicy 🌶️

God bless.
 

Common Tater

Active member
Hi Common Tater,

If you read my entire post you would've encountered this sentence:

If God can provide an external method of living forever for His human creation, then why couldn't He likewise do the same for any of His other creatures?
We're not told how the angels maintain their existence, but certainly they could have access to their own version of a tree of life. Remember, God "ALONE is immortal."

God bless!
When Adam and Eve sinned, they no longer had access to the Tree. Do you think God would still allow Lucifer and the fallen angels access to whatever version of the Tree that angels might have.
 

Icyspark

Active member
When Adam and Eve sinned, they no longer had access to the Tree. Do you think God would still allow Lucifer and the fallen angels access to whatever version of the Tree that angels might have.


Hi Common Tater,

That's an interesting question and it requires still more speculation on my part, but I'll play along from the starting point that God "ALONE is immortal."

Even after the tree of life was removed from the human equation humans lived for upwards of 1,000 years. We don't know how the life of Satan and his demons were sustained or what their lifespan might be after a loss of access to their source of life. I have no idea what God's arrangements are for sustaining the fallen angels. I know that life resides in Him and that all creatures who do not inherently or innately have immortality built in look to Him to live. In the case of humanity it is gained by access to the tree of life.

I pray this helps.
 

shnarkle

Well-known member
Hi shnarkle,

The opening post explains how I come to this conclusion.
I reread it. Still not clear. Never mind.
I'm not sure what you're proposing doesn't exist. The tree of life is singular and you used "they," so I'd have to count this out. That'd leave either God as not existing because the Trinity would qualify as a "they." Or you could be trying to discount Adam and Eve which would cause all sorts of havoc on the biblical narrative. Any way you slice it it's gonna be spicy 🌶️
I was referring to: " those who do not have access to the tree of life 🌳 will not live forever."

I say this because Satan is described as turning to ashes from within...Poof! It's just like he was never there. On some level, this resonates with me because Satan may just be the personification of our own desperately wicked desires.
God bless.
 

Icyspark

Active member
I was referring to: " those who do not have access to the tree of life 🌳 will not live forever."

I say this because Satan is described as turning to ashes from within...Poof! It's just like he was never there. On some level, this resonates with me because Satan may just be the personification of our own desperately wicked desires.


Hi shnarkle,

I don't want to venture too off the subject of the tree of life. However, let's just note that all of the wicked are described as turning to ashes:

Malachi 4:1-3 (NKJV)​
“For behold, the day is coming,​
Burning like an oven,​
And all the proud, yes, all who do wickedly will be stubble.
And the day which is coming shall burn them up,”​
Says the Lord of hosts,​
“That will leave them neither root nor branch.​
2 But to you who fear My name​
The Sun of Righteousness shall arise​
With healing in His wings;​
And you shall go out​
And grow fat like stall-fed calves.​
3 You shall trample the wicked,
For they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet
On the day that I do this,”​
Says the Lord of hosts.​
God bless!
 
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