How Eternal Life is Maintained

101G

Well-known member
Hi 101G,

Pretty sure that's not "addressing the OP."
this is basic bible..... study.
Romans 5:12 "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:" Romans 5:13 "(For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law." Romans 5:14 "Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come." Romans 5:15 "But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many." Romans 5:16 "And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification." Romans 5:17 "For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)" Romans 5:18 "Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life." Romans 5:19 "For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous." Romans 5:20 "Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:" Romans 5:21 "That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord."

understand the free gift now?

PICJAG, 101G.
 

Icyspark

Active member
this is basic bible..... study.
Romans 5:12 "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:" Romans 5:13 "(For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law." Romans 5:14 "Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come." Romans 5:15 "But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many." Romans 5:16 "And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification." Romans 5:17 "For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)" Romans 5:18 "Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life." Romans 5:19 "For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous." Romans 5:20 "Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:" Romans 5:21 "That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord."

understand the free gift now?

PICJAG, 101G.


Hi 101G,

Oh I understand the free gift, but what that has to do with the opening post I do not know. It sounds to me like you're talking about the gift of salvation, whereas I'm talking about how living forever is maintained.

I know this is a technique employed by many on this forum where individuals "respond" to the opening post but do not address even one aspect of it, but I suggest that you actually engage with the texts presented and not just dismiss them.

God bless!
 

101G

Well-known member
Oh I understand the free gift, but what that has to do with the opening post I do not know. It sounds to me like you're talking about the gift of salvation, whereas I'm talking about how living forever is maintained.
the FREE GIFT is ETERNAL LIFE. and how to maintain it? ...... it's a GIFT. think ... what do you do with a GIFT? ....... IT'S YOURS. now if you want to speak on WORKS while in salvation. the Lord Jesus has ONE CROWN FIT ALL, there is no bigger crown because person A, baptized 5,000, and you only ONE, no heaven rejoices over the ONE baptizes as much as the 5,000. this is where the White throne judgment comes in at. as said in the vineyard worker we all get the same PAY, no matter we started in the morning, or in the evening, the Pay is the same. but that has nothing to do with ETERNAL SALVATION, only that you we us have it.

now if you're looking for a covenant requirement, go no further than Micah 6:8 "He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?"

this is good for OT as well as NT Saints.

:ninja:
 

Icyspark

Active member
the FREE GIFT is ETERNAL LIFE. and how to maintain it? ...... it's a GIFT. think ... what do you do with a GIFT? ....... IT'S YOURS. now if you want to speak on WORKS while in salvation. the Lord Jesus has ONE CROWN FIT ALL, there is no bigger crown because person A, baptized 5,000, and you only ONE, no heaven rejoices over the ONE baptizes as much as the 5,000. this is where the White throne judgment comes in at. as said in the vineyard worker we all get the same PAY, no matter we started in the morning, or in the evening, the Pay is the same. but that has nothing to do with ETERNAL SALVATION, only that you we us have it.

now if you're looking for a covenant requirement, go no further than Micah 6:8 "He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?"

this is good for OT as well as NT Saints.

:ninja:


Hi 101G,

It's all well and good to say "It's a gift," but that doesn't mean that your position overrules and overturns the biblical texts presented in the opening post. Your current life is a "gift." That doesn't mean that you don't have to eat food in order to sustain your gift and maintain it.

If God ALONE has immortality, then of necessity requires that in order for humans to "live forever" means we attain this externally.

Genesis 3:22-24
And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.So the Lord God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken. 24 After he drove the man out, he placed on the east side of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life.​

According to the Scriptures--which you apparently read and refuse to acknowledge--Adam and Eve were banished from the Garden of Eden. Why? The Lord God answers: "He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.” That seems pretty basic. Humans were not created with immortality built in and it is only the redeemed who will be given access to the tree of life in the new Earth.

Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.

Basically what icy you and others on this thread doing is rejecting the word of God in order to maintain belief in the devil's lie that the dead shall not surely die.

Genesis 2:15-17
The Lord God placed the man in the Garden of Eden to tend and watch over it. But the Lord God warned him, “You may freely eat the fruit of every tree in the garden—except the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. If you eat its fruit, you are sure to die.
Genesis 3:4, 5
Then the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die. [👈 LIE] For God knows that in the day you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.” [👈 TRUTH]
  • So the Lord God says don't eat from this tree or "you are sure to die."
  • The serpent/devil says eat from this tree and "you will not surely die."
Whom should you believe?

There are two named trees in the Garden:
  1. The tree of the KNOWLEDGE OF GOOD AND EVIL.
  2. The tree of LIFE
Of the first one the devil lies about dying but tells the truth about the name of the tree. He says, "you will be like God, knowing good and evil." Later God confirms this truth saying, “Look, the human beings have become like us, knowing both good and evil. What if they reach out, take fruit from the tree of life, and eat it? Then they will live forever!

Now if the title of the one tree has a direct bearing on its function don't you suppose that the title of the second tree likewise indicates its function (i.e. life). That's precisely what Genesis 3:22-24 bears out. That's the reason given by God for why Adam and Eve were kicked out of the Garden. If they remained they could eat from the tree of LIFE and "they will LIVE FOREVER."

You and the others on here act like I'm making this stuff up and instead of grappling with these texts you prefer to wander about searching for other texts which you bend to make into contradictions rather than harmonizing them with the main and plain meanings of the texts supplied in the opening post.

I pray this helps.
 

101G

Well-known member
Hi 101G,

It's all well and good to say "It's a gift," but that doesn't mean that your position overrules and overturns the biblical texts presented in the opening post. Your current life is a "gift." That doesn't mean that you don't have to eat food in order to sustain your gift and maintain it.

If God ALONE has immortality, then of necessity requires that in order for humans to "live forever" means we attain this externally.

Genesis 3:22-24
And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.So the Lord God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken. 24 After he drove the man out, he placed on the east side of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life.​

According to the Scriptures--which you apparently read and refuse to acknowledge--Adam and Eve were banished from the Garden of Eden. Why? The Lord God answers: "He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.” That seems pretty basic. Humans were not created with immortality built in and it is only the redeemed who will be given access to the tree of life in the new Earth.

Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.

Basically what icy you and others on this thread doing is rejecting the word of God in order to maintain belief in the devil's lie that the dead shall not surely die.

Genesis 2:15-17
The Lord God placed the man in the Garden of Eden to tend and watch over it. But the Lord God warned him, “You may freely eat the fruit of every tree in the garden—except the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. If you eat its fruit, you are sure to die.
Genesis 3:4, 5
Then the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die. [👈 LIE] For God knows that in the day you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.” [👈 TRUTH]
  • So the Lord God says don't eat from this tree or "you are sure to die."
  • The serpent/devil says eat from this tree and "you will not surely die."
Whom should you believe?

There are two named trees in the Garden:
  1. The tree of the KNOWLEDGE OF GOOD AND EVIL.
  2. The tree of LIFE
Of the first one the devil lies about dying but tells the truth about the name of the tree. He says, "you will be like God, knowing good and evil." Later God confirms this truth saying, “Look, the human beings have become like us, knowing both good and evil. What if they reach out, take fruit from the tree of life, and eat it? Then they will live forever!

Now if the title of the one tree has a direct bearing on its function don't you suppose that the title of the second tree likewise indicates its function (i.e. life). That's precisely what Genesis 3:22-24 bears out. That's the reason given by God for why Adam and Eve were kicked out of the Garden. If they remained they could eat from the tree of LIFE and "they will LIVE FOREVER."

You and the others on here act like I'm making this stuff up and instead of grappling with these texts you prefer to wander about searching for other texts which you bend to make into contradictions rather than harmonizing them with the main and plain meanings of the texts supplied in the opening post.

I pray this helps.
Hi,
what in the world are u talking about? one does not work to be save, one work because they are SAVED.

:ninja:
 

Icyspark

Active member
Hi,
what in the world are u talking about? one does not work to be save, one work because they are SAVED.

:ninja:


Now I'm just thinking you're trolling :alien:. I didn't say anything about work and you're just continuing to ignore the biblical rebuttals to what I'm now guessing is intentional nonsense.

We're done.
 

101G

Well-known member
Now I'm just thinking you're trolling :alien:. I didn't say anything about work and you're just continuing to ignore the biblical rebuttals to what I'm now guessing is intentional nonsense.

We're done.
yes, we're done, just READ what you are saying.
It's all well and good to say "It's a gift," but that doesn't mean that your position overrules and overturns the biblical texts presented in the opening post. Your current life is a "gift." That doesn't mean that you don't have to eat food in order to sustain your gift and maintain it..
eating is a WORK. they didn't die from eating, but disobeying.

glad we're done.

:ninja:.
 

Formersda

Active member
Hi Pitbull,

Thank you for your reply. Unfortunately nothing you wrote directly addresses anything in the opening post. You started off addressing "the word translated immortality" but then didn't do much with it. I'd like to see how this word translated as "immortality" is not properly understood in its relationship to God alone. I wonder if you took a moment to look up the word "alone"? If not then I'll supply it for your consideration:

μόνος (monos)
Strong: G3332​
GK: G3668​
without accompaniment, alone, Mt. 14:23; 18:15; Lk. 10:40; singly existent, sole, only, Jn. 17:3; lone solitary, Jn. 8:29; 16:32; alone in respect of restriction, only, Mt. 4:4; 12:4; alone in respect of circumstances, only, Lk. 24:18; not multiplied by reproduction, lone, barren, Jn. 12:24

You don't get to dismiss the fact that God ALONE is immortal by appealing to a text which indicates that mortals will "put on immortality." How is this immortality put on? Is it embedded in our very being as it is with God ALONE? Or rather, it it put on by mortals being given access to the "tree of LIFE"? Additionally, the idea that immortality is "put on" should also indicate to you that the Adventist understanding on what happens to the wicked is correct. After all, how are the wicked going to live forever when they have not "put on immortality"?
  • In your view what is the purpose of the tree of LIFE?
  • In your view why did God banish Adam and Eve from the Garden of Eden (Genesis 3:22)?
  • In your view what is the connection between eating from the tree of LIFE and living forever (Genesis 3:22)?
  • In your view why will the redeemed be given "the right to eat from the tree of LIFE" (Revelation 2:7)?
I pray this helps.
Are you trying to say it the tree of life that gives life?
 

Icyspark

Active member
Are you trying to say it the tree of life that gives life? [No. Obviously Jesus gives life. The Tree of Life sustains life--"forever."]


Hi Formersda,

I'm not saying anything other than pointing out what the Bible says:

And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.”

How is this so difficult to understand? In this one verse we learn that the God-given titles of both trees are directly relevant to what they do. By eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil God acknowledges that indeed they have become like Them "knowing good and evil." If Adam and Eve were allowed to stay in the garden they would eat from the tree of life annnnnndddd ... and what?

You are not God. You will never be God. God "ALONE" is immortal. If that is so then how do you intend to live forever?

I pray this helps.
 

CharismaticLady

Well-known member
@Icyspark

I loved this thread. I really made me think about the Tree of Life and changed my view on when we receive immortality. We "inherit" eternal life, which would mean we don't have it until we've run the race successfully, meaning without willfully sinning. However, I have a few verses that don't fit. Also, a question for you. Seeing as you keep the Sabbath Day, do you believe you are without sin, unlike those who keep Sunday? You seemed to balk at me for believing that it is what Jesus came to do, even to get to perfection.

Hebrews 6:1
Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God,

1 Timothy 6:11-16
11 O Timothy, you are God’s man. Run from all these evil things, and work instead at what is right and good, learning to trust him and love others and to be patient and gentle. 12 Fight on for God. Hold tightly to the eternal life that God has given you and that you have confessed with such a ringing confession before many witnesses.
13 I urge you in the sight of God who gives life to all things, and before Christ Jesus who witnessed the good confession before Pontius Pilate, 14 that you keep this commandment without spot, blameless until our Lord Jesus Christ’s appearing, 15 which He will manifest in His own time, He who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings and Lord of lords, 16 who alone has immortality, dwelling in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see, to whom be honor and everlasting power. Amen.


How do you explain this verse. It is the only verse that I've found that contradicts annihilation.

Revelation 14:
9 Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”
 
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CharismaticLady

Well-known member
@Icyspark

Satan and all the angels would have had access to the Tree of Life, so that is why their hell is forever.

But those humans that took the mark of the beast would not have access, so don't know why Revelation 14:11 above says what it does.
 

Icyspark

Active member
No one wants to die. No one especially wants to die forever. So what does the Bible say about eternal life? Let's start "in the beginning . . ."
Genesis 3:22
And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.So the Lord God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken. 24 After he drove the man out, he placed on the east side of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life.​

The title of this tree 🌳 gives away its purpose--LIFE. In the verses above we're informed the reason why God specifically banished "man" from the Garden of Eden: "He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, AND LIVE FOREVER." The purpose for the tree 🌳 then is apparently to provide eternal life!

Considering this fact in relation to the new creation we see that the Tree of Life will be restored to the new Earth. Let's flip to the last book of the Bible:

Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.

The Bible is clear that only God is innately immortal. Speaking of God Paul writes that He "ALONE is immortal and lives in unapproachable light." No human has this innate immortality, nor will they ever. According to the Bible saved humanity will gain immortality in their being allowed once again to reach out their hands to take from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.

A correct understanding of the purpose of the tree of life 🌳 will also unravel the belief that those who are not redeemed will live forever. If it's true that only God is immortal (and it is), and if it's also true that the redeemed maintain eternal life by eating from the tree of life (and it is), then the obvious conclusion is that those who do not have access to the tree of life 🌳 will not live forever.

I pray this helps.


Merry Christmas!
 

JonHawk

Well-known member
The Bible is clear that only God is innately immortal. Speaking of God Paul writes that He "ALONE is immortal and lives in unapproachable light." No human has this innate immortality, nor will they ever.

Merry Christmas!
Martha said to Him, “I know that he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day.”
Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life." John 11:24-25
 

Common Tater

Active member
Hi JonHawk,

This post certainly comes a lot closer to addressing the issue raised in the opening post.

Jesus is our salvation and He gives us eternal life by giving us access to the tree of life 🌳 which when we eat from it we will "live forever." Eternal life is not maintained separate from Christ because He's the One who created the tree of life 🌳and He's the One who gives us access to it. No one is going to have immortality built in. Only God has that👇.

1 Timothy 6:13-16
13 In the sight of God, who gives life to everything, and of Christ Jesus, who while testifying before Pontius Pilate made the good confession, I charge you 14 to keep this command without spot or blame until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ, 15 which God will bring about in his own time—God, the blessed and only Ruler, the King of kings and Lord of lords, 16 who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see. To him be honor and might forever. Amen.

Are the angels immortal? Not according to what Paul says above ☝️.

So instead of trying to create disharmony with what the Bible says, why not choose to harmonize the texts? 🆗

God bless.
How often will we have to eat from the tree in order to maintain our eternal life? Adventists believe there are beings on other worlds. Do these beings have to periodically travel to paradise to eat from the tree in order to maintain their eternal life?
 

Icyspark

Active member
How often will we have to eat from the tree in order to maintain our eternal life? Adventists believe there are beings on other worlds. Do these beings have to periodically travel to paradise to eat from the tree in order to maintain their eternal life?


Hi Common Tater,

The Bible doesn't explicitly supply an answer for these questions. That said, we do know a few things from the Bible from which we can draw certain conclusions.
  1. God "alone is immortal" (1 Tim. 6:13-16).
  2. Death is tied to sin (Rom. 6:23).
  3. Once Jesus returns and redeems us "there will be no more death" (Rev. 21:4).
  4. The redeemed will be given "the right to the Tree of Life " (Rev. 22:2, 14).
  5. Eating from the Tree of Life allows mortals to "live forever" (Gen. 3:22).
  6. If anyone takes away from John's words of prophecy in the book of Revelation "God will take away from that person any share in the Tree of Life" (Rev. 22:19).
Because the Bible affirms that God "alone is immortal," that means that all other creatures He has created are not inherently immortal. This would include but not be limited to angels (Cherubim and Seraphim) and "the sons of God." Before Lucifer rebelled there was no sin and thus no death. Since God "alone is immortal" it seems that based on the available information that God would have some similar form of life sustaining option available for His creatures to "live forever" (i.e. a "Tree of Life," or perhaps a "River of Life").

Some questions for you:
  • On what basis do you deny the biblical verity that God "alone is immortal"? What other definition for "alone" allows you to conclude that there are others besides God who are also immortal?
  • Do you believe that the story about our origins supplied in Genesis 1-3 is symbolic, metaphorical or allegorical? If so, on what basis do you draw this conclusion?
  • If you do not believe that Genesis 1-3 is in some form symbolic, why would you not accept that the Tree of Life does what its name implies? Why would you not accept the reason God gave for banishing Adam and Eve from the Garden was so that they would not be able to take "from the tree of life and eat, and live forever"?
  • Why is it relevant that the redeemed are given restored access to the Tree of Life?
I pray this helps.
 

Common Tater

Active member
Some questions for you:
  • On what basis do you deny the biblical verity that God "alone is immortal"? What other definition for "alone" allows you to conclude that there are others besides God who are also immortal?
  • Do you believe that the story about our origins supplied in Genesis 1-3 is symbolic, metaphorical or allegorical? If so, on what basis do you draw this conclusion?
  • If you do not believe that Genesis 1-3 is in some form symbolic, why would you not accept that the Tree of Life does what its name implies? Why would you not accept the reason God gave for banishing Adam and Eve from the Garden was so that they would not be able to take "from the tree of life and eat, and live forever"?
  • Why is it relevant that the redeemed are given restored access to the Tree of Life?
I pray this helps.
You have made some pretty big assumptions. I do not believe that anyone other than God "alone is immortal". I do believe that God can grant us eternal life. The New Testament tells us this clearly over thirty times.

I believe in a literal creation week as described in Genesis. I also believe what Jesus says in John 4:14. He says that the water he provides will become in us a well of water springing up to eternal life.

I also believe that what God said in Genesis 2:17 is true. When Adam and Eve ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, they would die. They did die. They died spiritually. We are all born spiritually dead and that is why we need to be reborn.
 

Icyspark

Active member
You have made some pretty big assumptions. I do not believe that anyone other than God "alone is immortal". I do believe that God can grant us eternal life. The New Testament tells us this clearly over thirty times.

I believe in a literal creation week as described in Genesis. I also believe what Jesus says in John 4:14. He says that the water he provides will become in us a well of water springing up to eternal life.

I also believe that what God said in Genesis 2:17 is true. When Adam and Eve ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, they would die. They did die. They died spiritually. We are all born spiritually dead and that is why we need to be reborn.


Hi Common Tater,

It seems to me maybe ur equivocating. Let's try this. What do you believe it means that God "alone is immortal"? Are any of the other sinless beings God created dying? If not, then are they not also immortal? Or is there something inherently different about God's immortality than the eternal life given to His creatures?

Also, you did not address the last two points of my previous post. Do you have any thoughts you'd like to share?
  • If you do not believe that Genesis 1-3 is in some form symbolic, why would you not accept that the Tree of Life does what its name implies? Why would you not accept the reason God gave for banishing Adam and Eve from the Garden was so that they would not be able to take "from the tree of life and eat, and live forever"?
  • Why is it relevant that the redeemed are given restored access to the Tree of Life?
God bless.
 

MMDAN

Well-known member
From beginning "have been saved through faith" (Ephesians 2:8) to end "receiving the end of your faith--the salvation of your souls" (1 Peter 1:9) salvation is by grace through faith and is not by works, whether obtained or maintained.
 
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