How God's restraint proves free will

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TomFL

Guest
brightfame52 said:
Yeah He made them good, adam He made very good. So where did Adam get his nature from, the one he sinned against God with ?
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Not God

James 1:16–17 —KJV
“Do not err, my beloved brethren.
Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.”
 
B

brightfame52

Well-known member
TomFL said:
Not God

James 1:16–17 —KJV
“Do not err, my beloved brethren.
Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.”
Click to expand...
Where did he get it from if it wasnt from His Creator ?
 
T

TomFL

Guest
brightfame52 said:
Where did he get it from if it wasnt from His Creator ?
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Don't run from the scripture

This is clearly stated there are things which are not from God

James 1:16–17 —KJV
“Do not err, my beloved brethren.
Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.”

James 1:13 ¶ Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
James 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
James 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
James 1:16 Do not err, my beloved brethren.
James 1:17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.
1Cor. 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.
Job 34:10 ¶ Therefore hearken unto me, ye men of understanding: far be it from God, that he should do wickedness; and from the Almighty, that he should commit iniquity.
Job 34:11 For the work of a man shall he render unto him, and cause every man to find according to his ways.
Job 34:12 Yea, surely God will not do wickedly, neither will the Almighty pervert judgment.
1John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
 
B

brightfame52

Well-known member
TomFL said:
Don't run from the scripture

This is clearly stated there are things which are not from God

James 1:16–17 —KJV
“Do not err, my beloved brethren.
Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.”

James 1:13 ¶ Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
James 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
James 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
James 1:16 Do not err, my beloved brethren.
James 1:17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.
1Cor. 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.
Job 34:10 ¶ Therefore hearken unto me, ye men of understanding: far be it from God, that he should do wickedness; and from the Almighty, that he should commit iniquity.
Job 34:11 For the work of a man shall he render unto him, and cause every man to find according to his ways.
Job 34:12 Yea, surely God will not do wickedly, neither will the Almighty pervert judgment.
1John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
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So do you believe adam created his own nature ? lol
 
Theo1689

Theo1689

Well-known member
TomFL said:
Don't run from the scripture

This is clearly stated there are things which are not from God

James 1:16–17 —KJV
“Do not err, my beloved brethren.
Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.”
Click to expand...

Where in that do you think it says, "there are things which are not from God"?
Does your pastor agree with your claim?

TomFL said:
James 1:13 ¶ Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
James 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
James 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
James 1:16 Do not err, my beloved brethren.
James 1:17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.
Click to expand...

Where in that do you think it says, "there are things which are not from God"?


TomFL said:
1Cor. 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.
Click to expand...

Where in that do you think it says, "there are things which are not from God"?

TomFL said:
Job 34:10 ¶ Therefore hearken unto me, ye men of understanding: far be it from God, that he should do wickedness; and from the Almighty, that he should commit iniquity.
Job 34:11 For the work of a man shall he render unto him, and cause every man to find according to his ways.
Job 34:12 Yea, surely God will not do wickedly, neither will the Almighty pervert judgment.
Click to expand...

Where in that do you think it says, "there are things which are not from God"?

TomFL said:
1John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
Click to expand...

Well, at least in that verse I can see how you came to your misunderstanding.
But have you considered the possibility that you might not be understanding it correctly?
Because to me it seems pretty straightforward to interpret it in a way that doesn't require the ASSUMPTION that "there are things which are not from God"?
 
zerinus

zerinus

Well-known member
brightfame52 said:
Gen 20:6

And God said unto him in a dream, Yea, I know that thou didst this in the integrity of thy heart; for I also withheld thee from sinning against me: therefore suffered I thee not to touch her.
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You are quoting that verse out of context. You are overlooking how God "withhold them from sinning against him". If you read to the end of the chapter, it will tell you. He did that by making them sexually impotent. After that when they had repented, Abraham prayed for them, and they were healed. Now if all their thoughts, intentions, and desires had been meticulously controlled by God, why would God need to take such drastic action to prevent them from sinning against Abraham, if he could just control their thoughts and actions to make them do whatever he wanted?
 
zerinus

zerinus

Well-known member
brightfame52 said:
God is responsible for man and the devil having being, and He put the evil in their natures at their creation, how else could their natures be evil.
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Nowhere in the Bible does it say that their natures were evil. The Bible says that God created all things "good". That is what man was before the Fall. They acquired an evil disposition after the fall, or as a result of the Fall, from which Jesus came to rescue them.
brightfame52 said:
And yes God made man very good, even with giving him a evil nature to sin with according to His Purpose in Christ Jesus.
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What a ridiculous statement. Is that what Calvinism does to people, make them lose their minds and become totally irrational?
brightfame52 said:
Adam needed to be born again and conformed to the image of Christ like all of Gods elect !
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After the Fall he needed to, but not before. Before the Fall he was already "born right". He had no need to be "born again" before the Fall.
 
zerinus

zerinus

Well-known member
brightfame52 said:
Yeah He made them good, adam He made very good. So where did Adam get his nature from, the one he sinned against God with?
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He didn't need an "evil nature," all he needed was freewill. The Bible also says: "And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression." (1 Tim. 2:14)
 
zerinus

zerinus

Well-known member
brightfame52 said:
You can quote all scripture you like, for:

God caused mans sin nature to be responsible for sin, He created man to sin. God created man with his own lust that lead him to sin, so in that regard God caused/determined man to sin according to His Purpose.
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So your word is more important than God's word. Why hadn't I figured that out sooner?
 
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