zerinus
Well-known member
You are asking the wrong question. The right question is, Where did they get their freewill from?
zerinus
Well-known member
You keep asking the wrong question. Calvinism is leading you far astray.
zerinus
Well-known member
Wrong question over and over. The assumption is that unless he had a "sinful nature," he couldn't have sinned. That is the Calvinist invention. It is not biblical. You don't need a "sinful nature" to be able to sin. You can sin through pride, and you can also sin by being deceived. It is obvious from the scripture I quoted that Eve was deceived; and Adam chose to eat of the fruit to remain with Eve.
T
TomFL
Guest
That is correct
Adam was not created with a sin nature
He was created with the ability to not sin and the ability to not sin
as Calvinist RC Sproul confirms
Before the fall, Augustine said that man was posse peccare and posse non peccare, that is, man had the ability to sin and the ability not to sin. Not sinning was a possibility that Adam had in the Garden.
In addition to this, Augustine distinguished between our original estate, which involved both the posse mori and the posse non mori. This distinction refers to our mortality. Adam was made in such a way that it was possible for him to die. At the same time, he had the possibility before him of living forever had he not fallen into sin. So both the possibility of sinning and not sinning and the possibility of dying or not dying existed as options for Adam before the fall, according to Augustine.
He further argued that the consequence of the fall upon the human race can be defined this way: since the fall, man no longer has the posse non peccare or the posse non mori. All human beings now have lost the natural ability to keep from sinning and thus to keep from dying. Radical corruption RC Sproul https://www.ligonier.org/learn/articles/radical-corruption
brightfame52
Well-known member
gene
Nope, Im quoting from whats in the context. Thats how you learn from all scripture !
Nope, Im quoting from whats in the context. Thats how you learn from all scripture !
brightfame52
Well-known member
Yes their natures were evil, they disobeyed with them. The Man Jesus Christ is the only Man without a evil nature ! And the Elect Holy Angels !
brightfame52
Well-known member
Right sinners sin. You see what happened when Adam and Eve were tempted of the devil, in contrast to what happened when the Holy Man Jesus was tempted of the devil. Jesus Nature was pure and Holy and without sin and sin tendencies !
brightfame52
Well-known member
zerin
Sorry but its a good and wise statement because Adam was Created for a God Glorifying redemptive Purpose in Christ which entailed that he sin ! He was created very Good for that purpose !
Sorry but its a good and wise statement because Adam was Created for a God Glorifying redemptive Purpose in Christ which entailed that he sin ! He was created very Good for that purpose !
brightfame52
Well-known member
Its the right question. Where did Adam get his nature from ?
brightfame52
Well-known member
zerinus
Which is a sin from the sin nature, duh 1 Jn 2:16
For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
1 Tim 3:6
Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.
Mark 7 21-23
For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, 22 thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: 23 all these evil things come from within, and defile the man.
Prov 6 16-18
These six things doth the Lord hate:
yea, seven are an abomination unto him:
17 a proud look, a lying tongue,
and hands that shed innocent blood,
18 an heart that deviseth wicked imaginations,
feet that be swift in running to mischief,
Which is a sin from the sin nature, duh 1 Jn 2:16
For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
1 Tim 3:6
Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.
Mark 7 21-23
For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, 22 thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: 23 all these evil things come from within, and defile the man.
Prov 6 16-18
These six things doth the Lord hate:
yea, seven are an abomination unto him:
17 a proud look, a lying tongue,
and hands that shed innocent blood,
18 an heart that deviseth wicked imaginations,
feet that be swift in running to mischief,
T
TomFL
Guest
You forgot it was not from God
1 John 2:16 —ESV
“For all that is in the world—the desires of the flesh and the desires of the eyes and pride of life—is not from the Father but is from the world.”
God did not causally determine mans sinful desires
brightfame52
Well-known member
So where did they get their nature from ?
T
TomFL
Guest
Not from God
Do you not recognize that is what the scripture states
1 John 2:16 —ESV
“For all that is in the world—the desires of the flesh and the desires of the eyes and pride of life—is not from the Father but is from the world.”
brightfame52
Well-known member
lol, so enlighten us where it came from. Who is their creator ?
T
TomFL
Guest
Don't lol
Deal with the fact they don't come from God
1 John 2:16–17 —KJV
“For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.”
brightfame52
Well-known member
Who created Adam ?
T
TomFL
Guest
What part of not from God can you not grasp
creation does not make God the gulty party
1 John 2:16 —KJV
“For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
”
brightfame52
Well-known member
Well then you must believe Adam created himself. Thats not bible
T
TomFL
Guest
You ran from this
What part of not from God can you not grasp
creation does not make God the gulty party
1 John 2:16 —KJV
“For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
Theo1689
Well-known member
I'm not sure what a "gulty" is?