How God's restraint proves free will

zerinus

Well-known member
Where did he get it from if it wasnt from His Creator ?
So do you believe adam created his own nature ? lol
wrong God created him very good. Where did adam get his nature from that he sinned in ?
Where he get it from sir? BTW Christians are good in Christ and they have a corrupt nature.
Did he get it from Satan? Did Satan create him?
Did he create himself with it ?
Wrong question over and over. The assumption is that unless he had a "sinful nature," he couldn't have sinned. That is the Calvinist invention. It is not biblical. You don't need a "sinful nature" to be able to sin. You can sin through pride, and you can also sin by being deceived. It is obvious from the scripture I quoted that Eve was deceived; and Adam chose to eat of the fruit to remain with Eve.
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Wrong question over and over. The assumption is that unless he had a "sinful nature," he couldn't have sinned. That is the Calvinist invention. It is not biblical. You don't need a "sinful nature" to be able to sin. You can sin through pride, and you can also sin by being deceived. It is obvious from the scripture I quoted that Eve was deceived; and Adam chose to eat of the fruit to remain with Eve.
That is correct

Adam was not created with a sin nature

He was created with the ability to not sin and the ability to not sin

as Calvinist RC Sproul confirms

Before the fall, Augustine said that man was posse peccare and posse non peccare, that is, man had the ability to sin and the ability not to sin. Not sinning was a possibility that Adam had in the Garden.

In addition to this, Augustine distinguished between our original estate, which involved both the posse mori and the posse non mori. This distinction refers to our mortality. Adam was made in such a way that it was possible for him to die. At the same time, he had the possibility before him of living forever had he not fallen into sin. So both the possibility of sinning and not sinning and the possibility of dying or not dying existed as options for Adam before the fall, according to Augustine.

He further argued that the consequence of the fall upon the human race can be defined this way: since the fall, man no longer has the posse non peccare or the posse non mori. All human beings now have lost the natural ability to keep from sinning and thus to keep from dying. Radical corruption RC Sproul https://www.ligonier.org/learn/articles/radical-corruption
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nowhere in the Bible does it say that their natures were evil. The Bible says that God created all things "good". That is what man was before the Fall. They acquired an evil disposition after the fall, or as a result of the Fall, from which Jesus came to rescue them.

What a ridiculous statement. Is that what Calvinism does to people, make them lose their minds and become totally irrational?

After the Fall he needed to, but not before. Before the Fall he was already "born right". He had no need to be "born again" before the Fall.
Yes their natures were evil, they disobeyed with them. The Man Jesus Christ is the only Man without a evil nature ! And the Elect Holy Angels !
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Wrong question over and over. The assumption is that unless he had a "sinful nature," he couldn't have sinned. That is the Calvinist invention. It is not biblical. You don't need a "sinful nature" to be able to sin. You can sin through pride, and you can also sin by being deceived. It is obvious from the scripture I quoted that Eve was deceived; and Adam chose to eat of the fruit to remain with Eve.
Right sinners sin. You see what happened when Adam and Eve were tempted of the devil, in contrast to what happened when the Holy Man Jesus was tempted of the devil. Jesus Nature was pure and Holy and without sin and sin tendencies !
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
zerin

What a ridiculous statement.

Sorry but its a good and wise statement because Adam was Created for a God Glorifying redemptive Purpose in Christ which entailed that he sin ! He was created very Good for that purpose !
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
zerinus

You can sin through pride

Which is a sin from the sin nature, duh 1 Jn 2:16

For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

1 Tim 3:6

Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.

Mark 7 21-23

For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, 22 thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: 23 all these evil things come from within, and defile the man.

Prov 6 16-18

These six things doth the Lord hate:
yea, seven are an abomination unto him:
17 a proud look, a lying tongue,
and hands that shed innocent blood,
18 an heart that deviseth wicked imaginations,
feet that be swift in running to mischief,
 

TomFL

Well-known member
zerinus



Which is a sin from the sin nature, duh 1 Jn 2:16

For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

1 Tim 3:6

Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.

Mark 7 21-23

For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, 22 thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: 23 all these evil things come from within, and defile the man.

Prov 6 16-18

These six things doth the Lord hate:
yea, seven are an abomination unto him:
17 a proud look, a lying tongue,
and hands that shed innocent blood,
18 an heart that deviseth wicked imaginations,
feet that be swift in running to mischief,
You forgot it was not from God

1 John 2:16 —ESV
“For all that is in the world—the desires of the flesh and the desires of the eyes and pride of life—is not from the Father but is from the world.”

God did not causally determine mans sinful desires
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
You forgot it was not from God

1 John 2:16 —ESV
“For all that is in the world—the desires of the flesh and the desires of the eyes and pride of life—is not from the Father but is from the world.”

God did not causally determine mans sinful desires
So where did they get their nature from ?
 

TomFL

Well-known member
So where did they get their nature from ?
Not from God

Do you not recognize that is what the scripture states

1 John 2:16 —ESV
“For all that is in the world—the desires of the flesh and the desires of the eyes and pride of life—is not from the Father but is from the world.”
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Not from God

Do you not recognize that is what the scripture states

1 John 2:16 —ESV
“For all that is in the world—the desires of the flesh and the desires of the eyes and pride of life—is not from the Father but is from the world.”
lol, so enlighten us where it came from. Who is their creator ?
 

TomFL

Well-known member
lol, so enlighten us where it came from. Who is their creator ?
Don't lol

Deal with the fact they don't come from God

1 John 2:16–17 —KJV
“For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.”
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Don't lol

Deal with the fact they don't come from God

1 John 2:16–17 —KJV
“For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.”
Who created Adam ?
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Who created Adam ?
What part of not from God can you not grasp

creation does not make God the gulty party

1 John 2:16 —KJV
“For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
What part of not from God can you not grasp

creation does not make God the gulty party

1 John 2:16 —KJV
“For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
Well then you must believe Adam created himself. Thats not bible
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Well then you must believe Adam created himself. Thats not bible
You ran from this

What part of not from God can you not grasp

creation does not make God the gulty party

1 John 2:16 —KJV
“For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
 
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