How hard is it for the natural man to believe the gospel?

[Reformedguy]

The so called "natural: man is the psychikos - the one who sees things and judges only from a human point of view

The passage concerns two kinds of wisdom worldly wisdom verse that which comes from God

Worldly wisdom is sensual it will not come to spiritual truth

but there is also truth which comes from God - The spirit revealed this truth to the ap0ostles. The apostles preached this and some respond to it

1 Corinthians 1:21 (KJV)
21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

Again worldly wisdom knows not God but the wisdom which from God preached reaaches some and they are saved by it

The problem with the Calvinist interpretation is it ignores context

not only the near context but even the more remote

Seventh God's word says/shows it is sufficient

John 20:31 (KJV 1900)

31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

This clearly presupposes the gospel may be understood

2 Timothy 3:15 (KJV 1900)

15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

presupposes Holy scriptures may be understood

Isaiah 55:11 (KJV 1900)

11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth:

It shall not return unto me void,

But it shall accomplish that which I please,

And it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

God’s word prospers in whatever it is set out to do

Psalm 19:7 (KJV 1900)

7 ………………………The testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple.

Psalm 119:130 (KJV 1900)

130 The entrance of thy words giveth light;

It giveth understanding unto the simple.

Self explanitory

Romans 10:17 (KJV 1900)

17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

The word of God brings faith. It must be understood to do so



Acts 17:11 —KJV

“These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.”



This shows one can judge spiritual truth by the scriptures which must be understood to do so



Acts 18:28 —KJV



“For he mightily convinced the Jews, and that publickly, shewing by the scriptures that Jesus was Christ.”



Presupposes spiritual truth explained can be understood



John 1:7 —KJV

“The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.”



Again presupposes spiritual truth explained can be understood



James 1:21 (KJV)
21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word,

which is able to save your souls.



Presupposes the word has power to save



Ephesians 3:4 (KJV)
4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)



Presupposes reading sufficient to knowv spiritual truth



When God wanted Cornelius to receive the gospel he sent a preacher



Acts 11:13-14 (KJV)
13 And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and

call for Simon, whose surname is Peter;
14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.



The spirit sent Philip to preach the gosperl to the Ethiopian Eunuch



Acts 8:27-35 (KJV)
27 And he arose and went: and, behold, a man of Ethiopia, an eunuch of great authority under Candace queen of the Ethiopians, who had the charge of all her treasure, and had come to Jerusalem for to worship,
28 Was returning, and sitting in his chariot read Esaias the prophet.
29 Then the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot.
30 And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?
31 And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.
32 The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth:
33 In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth.
34 And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man?
35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.

in addition a number of verses demonstate an ability to believe

Men needed to be hardened so they could not believe

John 12:40 —KJV
“He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.”

had men not hardened themselves they could have believed

Acts 28:27 —KJV
“For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.”

Jesus spoke to men in parables to prevent their understanding

Matt. 13:10–14 —KJV
“And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:”

Why would the god of this world blind those who are incapable of sight

2 Corinthians 4:4 (KJV)
4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Calvinist theology here cannot account for the whole of the biblical data

It has ripped a verse from its context and not harmonized itself with the whole of scripture

Is this the same guy who in the other thread God takes away desire? If He takes it away then why cant He give the desire to believe to whomever He pleases?

 

[TomFL]

Is this the same guy who in the other thread God takes away desire? If He takes it away then why cant He give the desire to believe to whomever He pleases?

The question is not what God can do but what he does/did

You provide nothing at all to actually address the scriptural record in this matter

Addressing neither the passage under discussion or the confirming data provided

thus offering nothing advancing the discusion

.........................................................................................................

The so called "natural: man is the psychikos - the one who sees things and judges only from a human point of view

The passage concerns two kinds of wisdom - worldly wisdom verses that which comes from God

Worldly wisdom is sensual it will not come to spiritual truth

James 3:15 (KJV)
15 This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish.

sensual here is psychikos

The same Greek word from 1Co 2:14

but there is also truth/wisdom which comes from God - The spirit revealed this truth to the ap0ostles. The apostles preached this and some respond to it

1 Corinthians 1:21 (KJV)
21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

Again worldly wisdom knows not God but the wisdom which from God preached reaaches some and they are saved by it

The problem with the Calvinist interpretation is it ignores context

not only the near context but even the more remote

Seventh God's word says/shows it is sufficient

John 20:31 (KJV 1900)

31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

This clearly presupposes the gospel may be understood

2 Timothy 3:15 (KJV 1900)

15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

presupposes Holy scriptures may be understood

Isaiah 55:11 (KJV 1900)

11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth:

It shall not return unto me void,

But it shall accomplish that which I please,

And it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

God’s word prospers in whatever it is set out to do

Psalm 19:7 (KJV 1900)

7 ………………………The testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple.

Psalm 119:130 (KJV 1900)

130 The entrance of thy words giveth light;

It giveth understanding unto the simple.

Self explanitory

Romans 10:17 (KJV 1900)

17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

The word of God brings faith. It must be understood to do so



Acts 17:11 —KJV

“These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.”



This shows one can judge spiritual truth by the scriptures which must be understood to do so



Acts 18:28 —KJV



“For he mightily convinced the Jews, and that publickly, shewing by the scriptures that Jesus was Christ.”



Presupposes spiritual truth explained can be understood



John 1:7 —KJV

“The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.”



Again presupposes spiritual truth explained can be understood



James 1:21 (KJV)
21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word,

which is able to save your souls.



Presupposes the word has power to save



Ephesians 3:4 (KJV)
4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)



Presupposes reading sufficient to knowv spiritual truth



When God wanted Cornelius to receive the gospel he sent a preacher



Acts 11:13-14 (KJV)
13 And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and

call for Simon, whose surname is Peter;
14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.



The spirit sent Philip to preach the gosperl to the Ethiopian Eunuch



Acts 8:27-35 (KJV)
27 And he arose and went: and, behold, a man of Ethiopia, an eunuch of great authority under Candace queen of the Ethiopians, who had the charge of all her treasure, and had come to Jerusalem for to worship,
28 Was returning, and sitting in his chariot read Esaias the prophet.
29 Then the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot.
30 And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?
31 And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.
32 The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth:
33 In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth.
34 And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man?
35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.

in addition a number of verses demonstate an ability to believe

Men needed to be hardened so they could not believe

John 12:40 —KJV
“He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.”

had men not hardened themselves they could have believed

Acts 28:27 —KJV
“For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.”

Jesus spoke to men in parables to prevent their understanding

Matt. 13:10–14 —KJV
“And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:”

Why would the god of this world blind those who are incapable of sight

2 Corinthians 4:4 (KJV)
4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Calvinist theology here cannot account for the whole of the biblical data

It has ripped a verse from its context and not harmonized itself with the whole of scripture

 

[Reformedguy]

The question is not what God can do but what he does/did

You provide nothing at all to actually address the scriptural record in this matter

Addressing neither the passage under discussion or the confirming data provided

thus offering nothing advancing the discusion

.........................................................................................................

The so called "natural: man is the psychikos - the one who sees things and judges only from a human point of view

The passage concerns two kinds of wisdom - worldly wisdom verses that which comes from God

Worldly wisdom is sensual it will not come to spiritual truth

James 3:15 (KJV)
15 This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish.

sensual here is psychikos

The same Greek word from 1Co 2:14

but there is also truth/wisdom which comes from God - The spirit revealed this truth to the ap0ostles. The apostles preached this and some respond to it

1 Corinthians 1:21 (KJV)
21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

Again worldly wisdom knows not God but the wisdom which from God preached reaaches some and they are saved by it

The problem with the Calvinist interpretation is it ignores context

not only the near context but even the more remote

Seventh God's word says/shows it is sufficient

John 20:31 (KJV 1900)

31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

This clearly presupposes the gospel may be understood

2 Timothy 3:15 (KJV 1900)

15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

presupposes Holy scriptures may be understood

Isaiah 55:11 (KJV 1900)

11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth:

It shall not return unto me void,

But it shall accomplish that which I please,

And it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

God’s word prospers in whatever it is set out to do

Psalm 19:7 (KJV 1900)

7 ………………………The testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple.

Psalm 119:130 (KJV 1900)

130 The entrance of thy words giveth light;

It giveth understanding unto the simple.

Self explanitory

Romans 10:17 (KJV 1900)

17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

The word of God brings faith. It must be understood to do so



Acts 17:11 —KJV

“These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.”



This shows one can judge spiritual truth by the scriptures which must be understood to do so



Acts 18:28 —KJV



“For he mightily convinced the Jews, and that publickly, shewing by the scriptures that Jesus was Christ.”



Presupposes spiritual truth explained can be understood



John 1:7 —KJV

“The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.”



Again presupposes spiritual truth explained can be understood



James 1:21 (KJV)
21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word,

which is able to save your souls.



Presupposes the word has power to save



Ephesians 3:4 (KJV)
4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)



Presupposes reading sufficient to knowv spiritual truth



When God wanted Cornelius to receive the gospel he sent a preacher



Acts 11:13-14 (KJV)
13 And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and

call for Simon, whose surname is Peter;
14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.



The spirit sent Philip to preach the gosperl to the Ethiopian Eunuch



Acts 8:27-35 (KJV)
27 And he arose and went: and, behold, a man of Ethiopia, an eunuch of great authority under Candace queen of the Ethiopians, who had the charge of all her treasure, and had come to Jerusalem for to worship,
28 Was returning, and sitting in his chariot read Esaias the prophet.
29 Then the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot.
30 And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?
31 And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.
32 The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth:
33 In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth.
34 And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man?
35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.

in addition a number of verses demonstate an ability to believe

Men needed to be hardened so they could not believe

John 12:40 —KJV
“He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.”

had men not hardened themselves they could have believed

Acts 28:27 —KJV
“For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.”

Jesus spoke to men in parables to prevent their understanding

Matt. 13:10–14 —KJV
“And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:”

Why would the god of this world blind those who are incapable of sight

2 Corinthians 4:4 (KJV)
4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Calvinist theology here cannot account for the whole of the biblical data

It has ripped a verse from its context and not harmonized itself with the whole of scripture

Just pointing out your inconsistencies. On the one hand God will not put the desire in your heart to believe but will put the desire in your heart to not walk away. Thats provisionism at its finest. Lol

 

[TomFL]

Just pointing out your inconsistencies. On the one hand God will not put the desire in your heart to believe but will put the desire in your heart to not walk away. Thats provisionism at its finest. Lol

No all you are doing is ignoring scripture and attermpting to rationalize the truth away

Stop running from scripture and eschew human reasoning

Deal with it

The so called "natural: man is the psychikos - the one who sees things and judges only from a human point of view

The passage concerns two kinds of wisdom - worldly wisdom verses that which comes from God

Worldly wisdom is sensual it will not come to spiritual truth

James 3:15 (KJV)
15 This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish.

sensual here is psychikos

The same Greek word from 1Co 2:14

but there is also truth/wisdom which comes from God - The spirit revealed this truth to the ap0ostles. The apostles preached this and some respond to it

1 Corinthians 1:21 (KJV)
21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

Again worldly wisdom knows not God but the wisdom which from God preached reaaches some and they are saved by it

The problem with the Calvinist interpretation is it ignores context

not only the near context but even the more remote

Seventh God's word says/shows it is sufficient

John 20:31 (KJV 1900)

31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

This clearly presupposes the gospel may be understood

2 Timothy 3:15 (KJV 1900)

15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

presupposes Holy scriptures may be understood

Isaiah 55:11 (KJV 1900)

11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth:

It shall not return unto me void,

But it shall accomplish that which I please,

And it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

God’s word prospers in whatever it is set out to do

Psalm 19:7 (KJV 1900)

7 ………………………The testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple.

Psalm 119:130 (KJV 1900)

130 The entrance of thy words giveth light;

It giveth understanding unto the simple.

Self explanitory

Romans 10:17 (KJV 1900)

17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

The word of God brings faith. It must be understood to do so



Acts 17:11 —KJV

“These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.”



This shows one can judge spiritual truth by the scriptures which must be understood to do so



Acts 18:28 —KJV



“For he mightily convinced the Jews, and that publickly, shewing by the scriptures that Jesus was Christ.”



Presupposes spiritual truth explained can be understood



John 1:7 —KJV

“The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.”



Again presupposes spiritual truth explained can be understood



James 1:21 (KJV)
21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word,

which is able to save your souls.



Presupposes the word has power to save



Ephesians 3:4 (KJV)
4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)



Presupposes reading sufficient to knowv spiritual truth



When God wanted Cornelius to receive the gospel he sent a preacher



Acts 11:13-14 (KJV)
13 And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and

call for Simon, whose surname is Peter;
14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.



The spirit sent Philip to preach the gosperl to the Ethiopian Eunuch



Acts 8:27-35 (KJV)
27 And he arose and went: and, behold, a man of Ethiopia, an eunuch of great authority under Candace queen of the Ethiopians, who had the charge of all her treasure, and had come to Jerusalem for to worship,
28 Was returning, and sitting in his chariot read Esaias the prophet.
29 Then the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot.
30 And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?
31 And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.
32 The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth:
33 In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth.
34 And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man?
35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.

in addition a number of verses demonstate an ability to believe

Men needed to be hardened so they could not believe

John 12:40 —KJV
“He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.”

had men not hardened themselves they could have believed

Acts 28:27 —KJV
“For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.”

Jesus spoke to men in parables to prevent their understanding

Matt. 13:10–14 —KJV
“And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:”

Why would the god of this world blind those who are incapable of sight

2 Corinthians 4:4 (KJV)
4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Calvinist theology here cannot account for the whole of the biblical data

It has ripped a verse from its context and not harmonized itself with the whole of scripture

 

[TomFL]

No all you are doing is ignoring scripture and attermpting to rationalize the truth away

Stop running from scripture and eschew human reasoning

Deal with it

The so called "natural: man is the psychikos - the one who sees things and judges only from a human point of view

The passage concerns two kinds of wisdom - worldly wisdom verses that which comes from God

Worldly wisdom is sensual it will not come to spiritual truth

James 3:15 (KJV)
15 This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish.

sensual here is psychikos

The same Greek word from 1Co 2:14

but there is also truth/wisdom which comes from God - The spirit revealed this truth to the ap0ostles. The apostles preached this and some respond to it

1 Corinthians 1:21 (KJV)
21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

Again worldly wisdom knows not God but the wisdom which from God preached reaaches some and they are saved by it

The problem with the Calvinist interpretation is it ignores context

not only the near context but even the more remote

Seventh God's word says/shows it is sufficient

John 20:31 (KJV 1900)

31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

This clearly presupposes the gospel may be understood

2 Timothy 3:15 (KJV 1900)

15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

presupposes Holy scriptures may be understood

Isaiah 55:11 (KJV 1900)

11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth:

It shall not return unto me void,

But it shall accomplish that which I please,

And it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

God’s word prospers in whatever it is set out to do

Psalm 19:7 (KJV 1900)

7 ………………………The testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple.

Psalm 119:130 (KJV 1900)

130 The entrance of thy words giveth light;

It giveth understanding unto the simple.

Self explanitory

Romans 10:17 (KJV 1900)

17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

The word of God brings faith. It must be understood to do so



Acts 17:11 —KJV

“These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.”



This shows one can judge spiritual truth by the scriptures which must be understood to do so



Acts 18:28 —KJV



“For he mightily convinced the Jews, and that publickly, shewing by the scriptures that Jesus was Christ.”



Presupposes spiritual truth explained can be understood



John 1:7 —KJV

“The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.”



Again presupposes spiritual truth explained can be understood



James 1:21 (KJV)
21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word,

which is able to save your souls.



Presupposes the word has power to save



Ephesians 3:4 (KJV)
4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)



Presupposes reading sufficient to knowv spiritual truth



When God wanted Cornelius to receive the gospel he sent a preacher



Acts 11:13-14 (KJV)
13 And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and

call for Simon, whose surname is Peter;
14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.



The spirit sent Philip to preach the gosperl to the Ethiopian Eunuch



Acts 8:27-35 (KJV)
27 And he arose and went: and, behold, a man of Ethiopia, an eunuch of great authority under Candace queen of the Ethiopians, who had the charge of all her treasure, and had come to Jerusalem for to worship,
28 Was returning, and sitting in his chariot read Esaias the prophet.
29 Then the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot.
30 And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?
31 And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.
32 The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth:
33 In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth.
34 And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man?
35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.

in addition a number of verses demonstate an ability to believe

Men needed to be hardened so they could not believe

John 12:40 —KJV
“He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.”

had men not hardened themselves they could have believed

Acts 28:27 —KJV
“For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.”

Jesus spoke to men in parables to prevent their understanding

Matt. 13:10–14 —KJV
“And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:”

Why would the god of this world blind those who are incapable of sight

2 Corinthians 4:4 (KJV)
4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Calvinist theology here cannot account for the whole of the biblical data

It has ripped a verse from its context and not harmonized itself with the whole of scripture

Calvinism has no answer

 

[ziapueblo]

What you are revealing is, that to you, God being God is unfair. You want a say in it.

We do not choose God on our own free will?

 

[Theo1689]

We do not choose God on our own free will?

1) Where does the Bible teach "we choose God on our own free will"?
Chapter and verse, please?

2) Your argument is fallacious. You provide the options of either (a) mindless chess pieces, or (b) 100% free will. The correct (Biblical) answer is that we HAVE wills, but those wills are enslaved (not "free") in sin. As Rom. 6:16ff teaches, our wills are either enslaved in sin, or enslaved in righteousness.

 

[Reformedguy]

No all you are doing is ignoring scripture and attermpting to rationalize the truth away

Stop running from scripture and eschew human reasoning

Deal with it

The so called "natural: man is the psychikos - the one who sees things and judges only from a human point of view

The passage concerns two kinds of wisdom - worldly wisdom verses that which comes from God

Worldly wisdom is sensual it will not come to spiritual truth

James 3:15 (KJV)
15 This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish.

sensual here is psychikos

The same Greek word from 1Co 2:14

but there is also truth/wisdom which comes from God - The spirit revealed this truth to the ap0ostles. The apostles preached this and some respond to it

1 Corinthians 1:21 (KJV)
21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

Again worldly wisdom knows not God but the wisdom which from God preached reaaches some and they are saved by it

The problem with the Calvinist interpretation is it ignores context

not only the near context but even the more remote

Seventh God's word says/shows it is sufficient

John 20:31 (KJV 1900)

31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

This clearly presupposes the gospel may be understood

2 Timothy 3:15 (KJV 1900)

15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

presupposes Holy scriptures may be understood

Isaiah 55:11 (KJV 1900)

11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth:

It shall not return unto me void,

But it shall accomplish that which I please,

And it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

God’s word prospers in whatever it is set out to do

Psalm 19:7 (KJV 1900)

7 ………………………The testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple.

Psalm 119:130 (KJV 1900)

130 The entrance of thy words giveth light;

It giveth understanding unto the simple.

Self explanitory

Romans 10:17 (KJV 1900)

17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

The word of God brings faith. It must be understood to do so



Acts 17:11 —KJV

“These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.”



This shows one can judge spiritual truth by the scriptures which must be understood to do so



Acts 18:28 —KJV



“For he mightily convinced the Jews, and that publickly, shewing by the scriptures that Jesus was Christ.”



Presupposes spiritual truth explained can be understood



John 1:7 —KJV

“The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.”



Again presupposes spiritual truth explained can be understood



James 1:21 (KJV)
21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word,

which is able to save your souls.



Presupposes the word has power to save



Ephesians 3:4 (KJV)
4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)



Presupposes reading sufficient to knowv spiritual truth



When God wanted Cornelius to receive the gospel he sent a preacher



Acts 11:13-14 (KJV)
13 And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and

call for Simon, whose surname is Peter;
14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.



The spirit sent Philip to preach the gosperl to the Ethiopian Eunuch



Acts 8:27-35 (KJV)
27 And he arose and went: and, behold, a man of Ethiopia, an eunuch of great authority under Candace queen of the Ethiopians, who had the charge of all her treasure, and had come to Jerusalem for to worship,
28 Was returning, and sitting in his chariot read Esaias the prophet.
29 Then the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot.
30 And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?
31 And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.
32 The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth:
33 In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth.
34 And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man?
35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.

in addition a number of verses demonstate an ability to believe

Men needed to be hardened so they could not believe

John 12:40 —KJV
“He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.”

had men not hardened themselves they could have believed

Acts 28:27 —KJV
“For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.”

Jesus spoke to men in parables to prevent their understanding

Matt. 13:10–14 —KJV
“And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:”

Why would the god of this world blind those who are incapable of sight

2 Corinthians 4:4 (KJV)
4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Calvinist theology here cannot account for the whole of the biblical data

It has ripped a verse from its context and not harmonized itself with the whole of scripture

So we should not use our God given ability to reason?

Let's do a little test. You and your side kick called me out saying I don't exegete scripture. You posted 2nd Corinthians 4:4 in true proof texting style. So go ahead and exegete said text for me. Teach how. Start with audience, context, topic and how it is you arrive at the conclusion you do. This should be enlightening. Popcorn anyone? 🍿 If you can bear it watch this.

 

[ReverendRV]

We do not choose God on our own free will?

On these Boards, the argument is over whether our Fallen Prevenient Will is Free to believe; or whether our Will has to be Freed from the Bondage of Sin by God's prevening Grace, in order to then believe...

It's a 'Cause' and 'Effect' Debate; like a "Which came first, the Chicken or the Egg" argument...

 

[TomFL]

So we should not use our God given ability to reason?

Let's do a little test. You and your side kick called me out saying I don't exegete scripture. You posted 2nd Corinthians 4:4 in true proof texting style. So go ahead and exegete said text for me. Teach how. Start with audience, context, topic and how it is you arrive at the conclusion you do. This should be enlightening. Popcorn anyone? 🍿 If you can bear it watch this.

Human reason is not a replacement for scripture


and you did not address what was stated or the scripture provided

You are dodging

................................................................

No you do not read fine

I have told you multiple times what the TULI were and you were still without a clue

I told you multiples It was I who was denying points of the Calvinist tulip

and you still though I was accusing you of that

And I told you multiple times that because alternative was not desireable to you that does not mean there was not a choice

that is three instances of your failure to read

as for determination the answer is no

you had asked previously was that a loss of free will ande I told you no


so that was answered as well

finally you did nothing at all to address the scripture posted

You are in denial

and an unbeliever of God's word

and you do not read well

John 20:31 (KJV)
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

There are of course many more verses you ignored

God's word says/shows it is sufficient

John 20:31 (KJV 1900)

31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

This clearly presupposes the gospel may be understood

2 Timothy 3:15 (KJV 1900)

15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

presupposes Holy scriptures may be understood

Isaiah 55:11 (KJV 1900)

11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth:

It shall not return unto me void,

But it shall accomplish that which I please,

And it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

God’s word prospers in whatever it is set out to do

Psalm 19:7 (KJV 1900)

7 ………………………The testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple.

Psalm 119:130 (KJV 1900)

130 The entrance of thy words giveth light;

It giveth understanding unto the simple.

Self explanitory

Romans 10:17 (KJV 1900)

17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

The word of God brings faith. It must be understood to do so



Acts 17:11 —KJV

“These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.”



This shows one can judge spiritual truth by the scriptures which must be understood to do so



Acts 18:28 —KJV



“For he mightily convinced the Jews, and that publickly, shewing by the scriptures that Jesus was Christ.”



Presupposes spiritual truth explained can be understood



John 1:7 —KJV

“The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.”



Again presupposes spiritual truth explained can be understood



James 1:21 (KJV)
21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word,

which is able to save your souls.



Presupposes the word has power to save



Ephesians 3:4 (KJV)
4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)



Presupposes reading sufficient to knowv spiritual truth



When God wanted Cornelius to receive the gospel he sent a preacher



Acts 11:13-14 (KJV)
13 And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and

call for Simon, whose surname is Peter;
14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.



The spirit sent Philip to preach the gospel to the Ethiopian Eunuch



Acts 8:27-35 (KJV)
27 And he arose and went: and, behold, a man of Ethiopia, an eunuch of great authority under Candace queen of the Ethiopians, who had the charge of all her treasure, and had come to Jerusalem for to worship,
28 Was returning, and sitting in his chariot read Esaias the prophet.
29 Then the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot.
30 And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?
31 And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.
32 The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth:
33 In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth.
34 And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man?
35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.

and of course you cannot answer these either

Men were hardened so they could not believe

John 12:40 —KJV
“He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.”


why harden someone with no capability to believe

had men not hardened themselves they could have believed

Acts 28:27 —KJV
“For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.”

Jesus spoke to men in parables to prevent their understanding

Matt. 13:10–14 —KJV
“And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:”

The absurdity of speaking to men in parable so they would not understand is absurd if they had no ability to understand

.............................................

Deal with what you failed to address

 

[Reformedguy]

Human reason is not a replacement for scripture


and you did not address what was stated or the scripture provided

You are dodging

................................................................

No you do not read fine

I have told you multiple times what the TULI were and you were still without a clue

I told you multiples It was I who was denying points of the Calvinist tulip

and you still though I was accusing you of that

And I told you multiple times that because alternative was not desireable to you that does not mean there was not a choice

that is three instances of your failure to read

as for determination the answer is no

you had asked previously was that a loss of free will ande I told you no


so that was answered as well

finally you did nothing at all to address the scripture posted

You are in denial

and an unbeliever of God's word

and you do not read well

John 20:31 (KJV)
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

There are of course many more verses you ignored

God's word says/shows it is sufficient

John 20:31 (KJV 1900)

31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

This clearly presupposes the gospel may be understood

2 Timothy 3:15 (KJV 1900)

15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

presupposes Holy scriptures may be understood

Isaiah 55:11 (KJV 1900)

11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth:

It shall not return unto me void,

But it shall accomplish that which I please,

And it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

God’s word prospers in whatever it is set out to do

Psalm 19:7 (KJV 1900)

7 ………………………The testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple.

Psalm 119:130 (KJV 1900)

130 The entrance of thy words giveth light;

It giveth understanding unto the simple.

Self explanitory

Romans 10:17 (KJV 1900)

17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

The word of God brings faith. It must be understood to do so



Acts 17:11 —KJV

“These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.”



This shows one can judge spiritual truth by the scriptures which must be understood to do so



Acts 18:28 —KJV



“For he mightily convinced the Jews, and that publickly, shewing by the scriptures that Jesus was Christ.”



Presupposes spiritual truth explained can be understood



John 1:7 —KJV

“The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.”



Again presupposes spiritual truth explained can be understood



James 1:21 (KJV)
21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word,

which is able to save your souls.



Presupposes the word has power to save



Ephesians 3:4 (KJV)
4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)



Presupposes reading sufficient to knowv spiritual truth



When God wanted Cornelius to receive the gospel he sent a preacher



Acts 11:13-14 (KJV)
13 And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and

call for Simon, whose surname is Peter;
14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.



The spirit sent Philip to preach the gospel to the Ethiopian Eunuch



Acts 8:27-35 (KJV)
27 And he arose and went: and, behold, a man of Ethiopia, an eunuch of great authority under Candace queen of the Ethiopians, who had the charge of all her treasure, and had come to Jerusalem for to worship,
28 Was returning, and sitting in his chariot read Esaias the prophet.
29 Then the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot.
30 And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?
31 And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.
32 The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth:
33 In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth.
34 And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man?
35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.

and of course you cannot answer these either

Men were hardened so they could not believe

John 12:40 —KJV
“He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.”


why harden someone with no capability to believe

had men not hardened themselves they could have believed

Acts 28:27 —KJV
“For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.”

Jesus spoke to men in parables to prevent their understanding

Matt. 13:10–14 —KJV
“And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:”

The absurdity of speaking to men in parable so they would not understand is absurd if they had no ability to understand

.............................................

Deal with what you failed to address

You need human reasoning to understand it.

2 Corinthians 4:4 Teach me. Exegete it for me. Start with audience, context, subject and do on.

 

[preacher4truth]

We do not choose God on our own free will?

John 1:12-13 plainly teaches us we are not saved via our will.

 

[Tercon]

1 Corinthians 1:18

For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

1 Corinthians 2:14

The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.

I believe scripture says it is impossible for the natural man to believe the gospel.

If it is "impossible for the natural man to believe the gospel", then a believer's belief must not be of himself; but originating in and with God. So, God must believe in and with the believer in order for salvation to occur.

 

[TomFL]

You need human reasoning to understand it.

2 Corinthians 4:4 Teach me. Exegete it for me. Start with audience, context, subject and do on.

Are you ready to admit you can't do it ?

You are unable to harmonize your theology with the scriptures ?

You certainly did not address any scriptures I posated previously



................................................................

No you do not read fine

I have told you multiple times what the TULI were and you were still without a clue

I told you multiples It was I who was denying points of the Calvinist tulip

and you still though I was accusing you of that

And I told you multiple times that because alternative was not desireable to you that does not mean there was not a choice

that is three instances of your failure to read

as for determination the answer is no

you had asked previously was that a loss of free will and I told you no


so that was answered as well

finally you did nothing at all to address the scripture posted


John 20:31 (KJV)
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

There are of course many more verses you ignored

God's word says/shows it is sufficient

John 20:31 (KJV 1900)

31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

This clearly presupposes the gospel may be understood

2 Timothy 3:15 (KJV 1900)

15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

presupposes Holy scriptures may be understood

Isaiah 55:11 (KJV 1900)

11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth:

It shall not return unto me void,

But it shall accomplish that which I please,

And it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

God’s word prospers in whatever it is set out to do

Psalm 19:7 (KJV 1900)

7 ………………………The testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple.

Psalm 119:130 (KJV 1900)

130 The entrance of thy words giveth light;

It giveth understanding unto the simple.

Self explanitory

Romans 10:17 (KJV 1900)

17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

The word of God brings faith. It must be understood to do so



Acts 17:11 —KJV

“These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.”



This shows one can judge spiritual truth by the scriptures which must be understood to do so



Acts 18:28 —KJV



“For he mightily convinced the Jews, and that publickly, shewing by the scriptures that Jesus was Christ.”



Presupposes spiritual truth explained can be understood



John 1:7 —KJV

“The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.”



Again presupposes spiritual truth explained can be understood



James 1:21 (KJV)
21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word,

which is able to save your souls.



Presupposes the word has power to save



Ephesians 3:4 (KJV)
4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)



Presupposes reading sufficient to knowv spiritual truth



When God wanted Cornelius to receive the gospel he sent a preacher



Acts 11:13-14 (KJV)
13 And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and

call for Simon, whose surname is Peter;
14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.



The spirit sent Philip to preach the gospel to the Ethiopian Eunuch



Acts 8:27-35 (KJV)
27 And he arose and went: and, behold, a man of Ethiopia, an eunuch of great authority under Candace queen of the Ethiopians, who had the charge of all her treasure, and had come to Jerusalem for to worship,
28 Was returning, and sitting in his chariot read Esaias the prophet.
29 Then the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot.
30 And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?
31 And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.
32 The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth:
33 In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth.
34 And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man?
35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.

and of course you cannot answer these either

Men were hardened so they could not believe

John 12:40 —KJV
“He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.”


why harden someone with no capability to believe

had men not hardened themselves they could have believed

Acts 28:27 —KJV
“For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.”

Jesus spoke to men in parables to prevent their understanding

Matt. 13:10–14 —KJV
“And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:”

The absurdity of speaking to men in parable so they would not understand is absurd if they had no ability to understand

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Ready to admit you cannot deal with the scripture posted ?

Then we can get on to 1Co 4:4

 

[ReverendRV]

Are you ready to admit you can't do it ?

You are unable to harmonize your theology with the scriptures ?

Compatibalists are able to harmonize the Bible...

 

[eternomade]

If it is "impossible for the natural man to believe the gospel", then a believer's belief must not be of himself; but originating in and with God. So, God must believe in and with the believer in order for salvation to occur.

I agree with your first sentence. I do not follow the rest of what you said though.

 

[ReverendRV]

I agree with your first sentence. I do not follow the rest of what you said though.

He either doesn't realize the implications of what he's saying; or maybe he does...

 

[TomFL]

John 1:12-13 plainly teaches us we are not saved via our will.

What it shows is we are saved by the will of God when we receive Christ

John 1:12 (KJV)
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

1 Corinthians 1:21 (KJV)
21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

Compatibalists are able to harmonize the Bible...

why are there are so many verses Calvinists have not answered then

 

[Tercon]

I agree with your first sentence. I do not follow the rest of what you said though.

What doesn't follow; 'God must believe in and with the believer in order for salvation to occur'?

He either doesn't realize the implications of what he's saying; or maybe he does...

Evasion and projecting. What "implications"?

 

[TomFL]

What it shows is we are saved by the will of God when we receive Christ

John 1:12 (KJV)
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

1 Corinthians 1:21 (KJV)
21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

Bump for Preacher 4truth

care to respond to scripture ?