How I Became A Calvinist!



That matches reality.
Ask any farmer if their field cleared its own rocks..
Ask any farmer if their field cleared its own trees.
Ask any farmer if their field made their own furrows.

What "acceptance" and "offer" are you talking about?
When did the farmer "offer" the soil of the act of conditioning it?
When did the soil "accept" the imaginary "offer"?

Your spin bears absolutely no resemblance to reality.
Forget the farmer lets deal in scripture

John 20:31 —KJV
“But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.”

John 5:24 —KJV
“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”

John 5:40 —KJV
“And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.”

One becomes regenerated through faith in Christ

That is reality


Well-known member
I do think it helps to try to look at the whole... also, for an atheist there is so much information there, and maybe the baby step of just going through the one archetype, and include the problems too, with using that archetype, and then only make one point. The faith versus works is not so important to an atheist, imo. what is most important is for them to recognize it's possible another realm, exists... and that it is not the world of the five senses, but that it is God's heavenly realm.

There are many comparisons to make..

eden was a place of no toil
it was beautiful
adam and eve had bodies that would not die
nature loved God
Adam named the animals, and worked for God...
there was no death
no sweat
no harshness such as winter or earthquakes to hurt men
animals such as a lion could lie down with a lamb, as they will again.
we were banished and are in eden

this world
can be pretty but often not so, even without man being involved.
our bodies die
nature doesnt care about souls or god but is pitiless
there is death
there is sweat and labor
there is harshness to nature. it does not love and is cruel
animals are not listening to god but to the harsh nature
this world is where we were banished to - DEATH - just as God said to adam would be the case.

in peter pan, wendy leaves this world and goes to the other world, but even that other world is not eden.
and compare, pagan religions also have narratives of 'going to the other world of the gods'....but of course
those other worlds are more resembling the satanic principalities....


Well-known member
Can you make separate threads for peter pan, and alice into the secular or apologetics. Because I imagine by now theo is rolling his eyes at me and it might be better to give it its own thread. :) either way is fine, since he has me on ignore.
Around here on this Board, we're expected to stay as close to the Arminianism and Calvinism debate as we can, but you see there is some leeway. Steering too far course fir too long could cause a Thread to be moved; so it would be wrong to treat the Original Poster that way...

There could be better places, like the Apologetics Board or the Literature Board. The Apologetics Board would probably be better. I haven't been there since I rejoined; I was bruisermiller here before. I am a 5-Point Calvinist; a Baptist...


Well-known member
if a soul can start to sense that God can exist at all...
then that is a huge step and many other things can follow and be discussed..
but its weird to argue with an atheist about topics that would first need them to even admit He could possibly be real.
They like me over there...

For the most part...


Well-known member
I edited my post with eden versus this world...because i had a typo and said in Eden when it needed to write, 'not in eden'
and to add one line to the section called this world.

If you illustrate to someone who associates God with the ugly things of this world, the difference of this world (the way it is because affected by sin!) versus the world HE created, which is Eden... then I think that often appears in movies or books (as what we desire to have versus instead the heartaches that we actually experience)... because souls holds deep archetypes of God in their hearts, which expresses itself as ideals... they understand what something good is...just as that atheist might...and when they see something ugly they know that is not God's.

So distinguishing God away from ugliness, and always directing that ugliness to the fallen situation, that we left Eden, I think is a good start with someone who cannot tell the difference between 'this' world and how He deeply wants us to be.... and how much He loves.
I like to find Archetypes which mirror Protestant Doctrines. I understand we can find examples for anything we want to prove though. Examples are helpful when it comes to others grasping Christian Doctrine...


Well-known member
I like to find Archetypes which mirror Protestant Doctrines. I understand we can find examples for anything we want to prove though. Examples are helpful when it comes to others grasping Christian Doctrine...

Yes, examples and analogies help others to understand a view.
They do NOT "prove" a doctrine true.
Many people don't seem to realize this.


Well-known member
Yes, that is a problem, and esau has gone into overdrive filling archetypes with all sorts of things out of his satanic mindset...most movies and what they encourage, however positive the movie may be, are like that.... it's hard to find things to watch. I like Quo Vadis and that has very nice types in it. If I were teaching university again (retired two years ago), I would maybe use that... Because secular movies have their saints (pan or alice) but those heroes are not God's saints... Kierkegaard wrote an interesting essay on that... about how the culture's heroes function as that culture's holy ones...and ignore the prophets and moses.
Well I hope I can keep up with a Professor; I like to think I can keep up with some of them regarding Theology...

I started a Thread on the Apologetics Forum...