Theo1689
Well-known member
No, you haven't shown any "opposition" between what I said and what Piper said.
The Spirit draws.
He does so in response to the preaching of the gospel.
That's what Calvinism teaches.
How is a person made righteous before God?
- Thread starter eternomade
- Start date
No, you haven't shown any "opposition" between what I said and what Piper said.
The Spirit draws.
He does so in response to the preaching of the gospel.
That's what Calvinism teaches.
Like RV said; He doesn't. His mind as never changed, His goal is and was always the same; His believing in and with believers creates beings in His image that He calls His children.
Bob Carabbio
Well-known member
BINGO!! "Hyper-Calvinistic Sovereign Gracers" don't evangelize, since it's not needed, they just "Collect sheep" who've been "Saved" since before the creation.
Bob Carabbio
Well-known member
However, according to the conditions set forth in the O.P. : "There is no human willing, choosing, or asking." Then "Evangelism", and Visible Church become unimportant (Whether or not the "Atonement" is limited or not). Its all automatic, and man has nothing to do with it.
L
Ladodgers6
Guest
How Amazing and deep is God's Grace & Mercy!
Abraham Justified by Faith
Romans 4
Romans 4
1 What then shall we say was gained by Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.” 4 Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due. 5 And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness, 6 just as David also speaks of the blessing of the one to whom God counts righteousness apart from works:
Once again ...... did God / or god if you prefer, ever change his mind in scripture.
eternomade
Well-known member
Can you give an example of one of these people? I would call myself a "High Calvinist Free and Sovereign Gracer". I have never met anyone like this.
Theo1689
Well-known member
Bob Carabbio
Well-known member
The ones I ran into were from the "Primitive Baptist" denomination.
Bob Carabbio
Well-known member
1Ch 21:15
And God sent an angel unto Jerusalem to destroy it: and as he was destroying, the LORD beheld, and he repented him of the evil, and said to the angel that destroyed, It is enough, stay now thine hand. And the angel of the LORD stood by the threshingfloor of Ornan the Jebusite.
Jon 3:10
And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.
You can form your own opinion.
eternomade
Well-known member
I have read a little from them but didn't realize they don't evangelize. How sad. Thanks
ReverendRV
Well-known member
I always liked to listen to Lasserre Bradley; a Primitive Baptist on the radio...
can man ever be .......
Perhaps a better question is can man ever be.
anyway ..... religion is more about how to die rather then how to live.
How to not be ......
From somebody else .....
How do I love thee? Let me count the ways.
The way's, the way's to never be......
A chance, perchance to never be.
to never live but always be .......
anyway ......
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Theo1689
Well-known member
I told you what I believe.
So the only "evidence" I need to prove that, is to actually TELL you what I believe! And I did that! So what's with throwing the hissy-fit?
If you want Biblical support, I have that too, it seems that you are simply ignorant of what the Bible teaches:
Rom. 10:14 How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching? 15 And how are they to preach unless they are sent? As it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the good news!”
Yes, YOU claimed that just about ALL Calvinists teach that there can be a huge gap between being regenerated, and hearing the gospel. NO Calvinist believes that. I didn't make any claims about "other Calvinists", YOU did.
So yes, YOU have to demonstrate your claim, if you want to be taken seriously by anyone around here...
Yeah, we all know that no matter what I present, you will NEVER provide quotes to support your bogus claim.
Bob Carabbio
Well-known member
anyway.
eternomade
Well-known member
So He is waiting for us to surrender?
Romans 9 says that its not about human will. Looks like it's up to God to decide who His sheep are.
16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy.
No. God cannot contradict Himself.
T
TomFL
Guest
Except the bible teaches differently
Galatians 2:15-16 (NASB)
15 "We are Jews by nature and not sinners from among the Gentiles;
16 nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified.
faith in Christ is a condition for justification
T
TomFL
Guest
Actually is the mercy spoken of the opportunity to be justified by faith
Romans 9:30-32 (NASB)
30 What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, attained righteousness, even the righteousness which is by faith;
31 but Israel, pursuing a law of righteousness, did not arrive at that law.
32 Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as though it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone,
and unbelief grounds for the with-holding of mercy
Romans 11:17-23 (NASB)
17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the rich root of the olive tree,
18 do not be arrogant toward the branches; but if you are arrogant, remember that it is not you who supports the root, but the root supports you.
19 You will say then, "Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in."
20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear;
21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either.
22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God's kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off.
23 And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.
further there is a remedy - Remain not in unbelief
CharismaticLady
Well-known member
After 30 years of going to church and learning a great deal of knowledge, it wasn't until I realized just how much of a sinner I was and couldn't stop desiring to sin. So becoming righteous is not something we can do without the power of Christ INSIDE of us. Many in the church are where I was, "forever learning, but never coming to a knowledge of the Truth." We know all about Jesus, but from the outside looking in, and not from the inside of Him as we abide in Him and He abides in us, making us one John 17. When we truly see ourselves and tell ourselves the truth about just how weak we are, and that going through rituals and keeping surface commandments that only require willpower is not enough to be righteous, that is when we need Him to come inside of us, and become one with us. That integrity of heart is what is required to once and for all receive the Holy Spirit on the inside of us, changing our whole nature. Before that, we are only receiving knowledge, but not even the correct interpretation of God's Word, but what the teachers we are drawn to teach us. If a liberal teacher, we believe easy grace. If hell fire and brimstone teacher, we become legalistic and self-righteous. The Holy Spirit on the outside of us keeps drawing us, but it is up to us how long it takes. I've been in both types of denominations, but now know that only Jesus can produce in us true righteousness. It is when He is the one inside of us doing the righteousness and planting His desires in our hearts that we will now naturally produce righteousness from our born again nature. And we must cooperate with the Spirit and not quench Him, thus keeping ourselves pure. 1 John 3:3