How is this defensible?

[balshan]

The reason I asked was because I wanted to know how the theory works in practice. We live in this world and have to face issues that were never even issues 2000 years ago. I wanted to know how one is meant to give account on issues with authentic Christian witness. Issues like the morality of IVF or the morality of contraception, stem cell or artificial intelligence technology, pornography. When someone says to you (or A New Day) what is the Christian position on these things, how do you give an answer, a witness? Just saying 'read the bible and you'll know' seems to me to be a poor answer in giving account.


Every response you've ever made to me since I arrived has been equally rude and snarky so don't try and pretend it's because of something other than I'm a Catholic.

Each generation has faced issues that are different to those before, your institution reliance on non believers is a joke and unnecessary, it is how it has become so syncretised over the centuries. If one is a real believer morals are the important thing, not pompous talk. They expose sin. Your institution is summed up by the last verse posted in post 88 was accurate. I mean your posts are seen by all.

Your posts points to RCs loving the victim role. Of course RCs never call non RCs heretics, haters, they are always soooooooo polite, never rude, bearing false witness, we non RCs have all felt the love of RCs for their neighbours.

 

[leonard03782]

Every response you've ever made to me since I arrived has been equally rude and snarky so don't try and pretend it's because of something other than I'm a Catholic.

OH! Woe is me! I am being picked on because I am a rc. WAAAAAAAAA!!!!!! This is a sad but true commentary on rc'ism.

You have to tell yourself this in order to give yourself an excuse not to listen to anything that I say. The truth is that regardless of what board I post on, my posts would be the same. The problem with most people in the world is that they hate to be told that they are wrong and to have the light of Truth expose their beliefs for what they are. They react with anger, spite, and resentment. You are no exception. In the end, you will know that every written word of GOD is true and accurate right down to the very last jot and tittle. I surely do hope and pray that you come to that realization before you step into eternity.

 

[leonard03782]

The reason I asked was because I wanted to know how the theory works in practice. We live in this world and have to face issues that were never even issues 2000 years ago. I wanted to know how one is meant to give account on issues with authentic Christian witness. Issues like the morality of IVF or the morality of contraception, stem cell or artificial intelligence technology, pornography. When someone says to you (or A New Day) what is the Christian position on these things, how do you give an answer, a witness? Just saying 'read the bible and you'll know' seems to me to be a poor answer in giving account.


Every response you've ever made to me since I arrived has been equally rude and snarky so don't try and pretend it's because of something other than I'm a Catholic.

There are priests that are astronomers and physicists that work at the vatican observatory. The rcc history is replete with them.

Catholic Priests Find Science Behind the Stars at the Vatican Observatory

Twelve Catholic priests and brothers live, work, and pray at the Vatican Observatory, exploring some of the universe’s biggest scientific questions.

sojo.net

so, given the this fact, what you are telling us is that there were no other options to fill this role within the rcc other than an atheist? Seriously??

 

[romishpopishorganist]

How do works save you? What can you do to save yourself by doing works? How do works ADD to one's salvation?

Works do NOT add to salvation. I am sick and tired of Protestants continuing to say works "add" to salvation. Works are PART of salvation, not an "addition" to salvation. Stop turning this into an arithmetical issue!

Works no more "add" to salvation, than the fact that God is a Trinity "adds" divinity to the Godhead.

One is either born again or NOT born again.

That much is true. And this is why Catholics believe that the INITIAL grace of justification comes through Faith alone. This is the sense in which Faith alone is correct.

And without being born again all one's works are as filthy rags to the Lord!

Again, quite correct. No Catholic maintains otherwise.

How many piles of filthy rags does it take to please God and merit your salvation?

Without Faith? We cannot please God.

Paul, Peter, and none of the other apostles stood on a street corner selling dirty rags.

Who said they did?

They preached the gospel, which is salvation by grace through faith, PERIOD. They NEVER mentioned anything needed to be added to Christ's finished atonement on the cross for salvation.

Once again, the minute you start turning this into an arithmetical issue, you have already missed the boat.

One can either trust Jesus and what He did on the cross, or one's self for salvation, one saves the other condemns!

Correct.

And what leap in logic. Like I said one saves and one damns one to hell. IF man could save himself Christ would not have had to die to save us.

Works save BECASUE Christ saved us. That is what you do not seem to grasp. Works are PART of salvation. Works are not "added" to salvation as if salvation is some sort of equation.

 

[romishpopishorganist]

For by grace you have been saved through faith and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God not of works, so that no one may boast.

Works save becasue of the above, not in spite of the above.

That is what you don't get.

 

[Our Lord's God]

Works save becasue of the above, not in spite of the above.

That is what you don't get.

Not here:

For by grace you have been saved through faith and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God not of works, so that no one may boast.

 

[romishpopishorganist]

Not here:

For by grace you have been saved through faith and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God not of works, so that no one may boast.

Sigh...

This is talking about the gift of Faith itself. Works come AFTER the gift of Faith is bestowed and are part of it.

 

[Our Lord's God]

Sigh...

This is talking about the gift of Faith itself. Works come AFTER the gift of Faith is bestowed and are part of it.

Apparently, you do not comprehend the words "you have been saved."

For by grace you have been saved through faith and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God not of works, so that no one may boast.

Work on your reading comprehension.

 

[Our Lord's God]

Sigh...

This is talking about the gift of Faith itself. Works come AFTER the gift of Faith is bestowed and are part of it.

Let me help you with your confusion.

Christ appeared to save us from what? - our sins.
Eph 2:8-10a is one thing: For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus
Past event for believers

Christ will appear a second time to save us not from sins but from something else
Verse 10b alludes to another thing, another event: for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

so Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time without respect to sins to save those who eagerly await Him.

Which one of these two events is James talking about?

Works which we might do have absolutely nothing to do with the Ephesians 2:8 salvation event. And it is also a past event for believers.
Believers await Jesus to come a second time. What will happen when Christ appears a second time?

If anyone wishes to come after me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross and follow me. For whoever wants to save his soul will lose it; but whoever loses his soul for my sake will find it. 26 For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his soul? Or what will a man give in exchange for his soul? 27 For the son of man is going to come in the glory of his Father with His angels, and will then repay every man according to his deeds.

For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

 

[Stella1000]

You have to tell yourself this in order to give yourself an excuse not to listen to anything that I say. The truth is that regardless of what board I post on, my posts would be the same. The problem with most people in the world is that they hate to be told that they are wrong and to have the light of Truth expose their beliefs for what they are. They react with anger, spite, and resentment. You are no exception. In the end, you will know that every written word of GOD is true and accurate right down to the very last jot and tittle. I surely do hope and pray that you come to that realization before you step into eternity.

What makes your testimony credible? My faith is drawn by people who have wisdom, joy, charity and the virtues of Christ. Some of those haven't even been Catholics but many of course are. But my faith is repelled by certain attitudes that don't in any way reflect the Word of God. I don't understand why people think that works on others.

 

[Stella1000]

There are priests that are astronomers and physicists that work at the vatican observatory. The rcc history is replete with them.

Catholic Priests Find Science Behind the Stars at the Vatican Observatory

Twelve Catholic priests and brothers live, work, and pray at the Vatican Observatory, exploring some of the universe’s biggest scientific questions.

sojo.net

so, given the this fact, what you are telling us is that there were no other options to fill this role within the rcc other than an atheist? Seriously??

The Pontifical Academy of Science has 80 members of world renown. In the past they have included Nobel Prize winners like Ernest Rutherford, father of nuclear physics, Max Planck, theoretical physicist who discovered energy quanta and Niels Bohr, "who made foundational contributions to understanding atomic structure and quantum theory". Limiting the Academy to members who are Priests or Catholic alone would just be a waste of its purpose.

 

[Our Lord's God]

The Pontifical Academy of Science has 80 members of world renown. In the past they have included Nobel Prize winners like Ernest Rutherford, father of nuclear physics, Max Planck, theoretical physicist who discovered energy quanta and Niels Bohr, "who made foundational contributions to understanding atomic structure and quantum theory". Limiting the Academy to members who are Priests or Catholic alone would just be a waste of its purpose.

My Kingdom is not of this world.
- Jesus

15 Do not love the world nor the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh and the lust of the eyes and the boastful pride of life, is not from the Father, but is from the world. The world is passing away, and also its lusts; but the one who does the will of God lives forever.

 

[Stella1000]

My Kingdom is not of this world.
- Jesus

15 Do not love the world nor the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh and the lust of the eyes and the boastful pride of life, is not from the Father, but is from the world. The world is passing away, and also its lusts; but the one who does the will of God lives forever.

Except the Church is not just a theoretical concept is it. It is here to help us seek and follow Gods Will. I've asked this before without getting a solid reply other than "just do Gods Will" but for example is IVF technology God's Will? By what competency do you know the answer to that?

 

[Our Lord's God]

Except the Church is not just a theoretical concept is it.

You don't have a point. Nothing in my post suggests it is and nothing in my post relies on such an idea.

It is here to help us seek and follow Gods Will.

Not "it" but those in the true church encourage on another.

I've asked this before without getting a solid reply other than "just do Gods Will" but for example is IVF technology God's Will?

This is not difficult to answer. Do you suppose the Holy Spirit is leading absolutely anyone to do such a thing?

By what competency do you know the answer to that?

The Spirit of Truth leads us into all the truth. You don't need to ask me. The Spirit of Truth leads into all truth.

But as it is, you keep insisting on getting your answers from earthly men instead of God Himself.

 

[balshan]

Works do NOT add to salvation. I am sick and tired of Protestants continuing to say works "add" to salvation. Works are PART of salvation, not an "addition" to salvation. Stop turning this into an arithmetical issue!

Works no more "add" to salvation, than the fact that God is a Trinity "adds" divinity to the Godhead.

That much is true. And this is why Catholics believe that the INITIAL grace of justification comes through Faith alone. This is the sense in which Faith alone is correct.

Again, quite correct. No Catholic maintains otherwise.

Without Faith? We cannot please God.

Who said they did?

Once again, the minute you start turning this into an arithmetical issue, you have already missed the boat.

Correct.

Works save BECASUE Christ saved us. That is what you do not seem to grasp. Works are PART of salvation. Works are not "added" to salvation as if salvation is some sort of equation.

Then you are failing to read what other RCs post and their understanding of works and salvtion.

 

[balshan]

What makes your testimony credible? My faith is drawn by people who have wisdom, joy, charity and the virtues of Christ. Some of those haven't even been Catholics but many of course are. But my faith is repelled by certain attitudes that don't in any way reflect the Word of God. I don't understand why people think that works on others.

HMMM have you read the posts of RCs to non RCs here? Do RCs have a mirror? Or is the mirror the one in fairy tales that tells RCs what they want to hear?

Speaking the truth about the RCC, stating the evidence that shows the false claims of the RCC is being charitable, it is not joyful because the RCC is leading the pack on the wide road and it is showing the virture of Jesus because He was truthful. It reflects the word of God. So your faith is repelled by truth.

 

[romishpopishorganist]

Let me help you with your confusion.

I am not the one who is confused here sir.

 

[Our Lord's God]

I am not the one who is confused here sir.

Oh it's more than plain that you certainly are.

But if you insist upon pretending otherwise, I won't stop you. That's not good for you though..........

 

[bluedog1us]

Works do NOT add to salvation. I am sick and tired of Protestants continuing to say works "add" to salvation. Works are PART of salvation, not an "addition" to salvation. Stop turning this into an arithmetical issue!

Works no more "add" to salvation, than the fact that God is a Trinity "adds" divinity to the Godhead.

That much is true. And this is why Catholics believe that the INITIAL grace of justification comes through Faith alone. This is the sense in which Faith alone is correct.

Again, quite correct. No Catholic maintains otherwise.

Without Faith? We cannot please God.

Who said they did?

Once again, the minute you start turning this into an arithmetical issue, you have already missed the boat.

Correct.

Works save BECASUE Christ saved us. That is what you do not seem to grasp. Works are PART of salvation. Works are not "added" to salvation as if salvation is some sort of equation.

Canon 24: “If anyone saith, that the justice received is not preserved and also increased before God through good works; but that the said works are merely the fruits and signs of Justification obtained, but not a cause of the increase thereof; let him be anathema.

So your church got it wrong at trent? So who is right? Good ole faith plus works. Anyway you cut it!





.

 

[mica]

What makes your testimony credible?

faith in Christ - very different than faith in the rcc / people.

My faith is drawn by people who have wisdom, joy, charity and the virtues of Christ.

no it isn't. its in the rcc, not in in Christ the Son of God.

Some of those haven't even been Catholics but many of course are. But my faith is repelled by certain attitudes that don't in any way reflect the Word of God. I don't understand why people think that works on others.

your faith is in the rcc - not in Christ.
the rcc doesn't teach His truth.

its worked from the begining. it's God's plan for salvation.