How "pro-life" is it to deny the sacrament?

[BMS]

Biden is married to a divorced woman whose spouse is still living, a hardline 'no' for communion

I would say if he has repented from the divorce and repented from supporting abortion, and repented from supporting lgbt stuff then that is what the communion is for.

 

[J regia]

I would say if he has repented from the divorce and repented from supporting abortion, and repented from supporting lgbt stuff then that is what the communion is for.

How can remarried divorcees repent for their adulterous marriages unless they remain celibate (Matt 5:27-30 Mark 10:11-12 Leviticus 20:10)?
And there's nothing in the bible about lgbt stuff anyway.

 

[HillsboroMom]

You haven't answered my point. My point is what Jesus made the communion, His body broken for the forgiveness of sin.

That is not a question. I can't answer something that isn't a question.

I'm more than happy to answer any question you ask. But you can't accuse me of not answering you when you don't ask a question.

You seem very confused.

You seem to think smoking was a sin otherwise you wouldn't have mentioned it.

Yes, I believe that smoking is a sin.

It kills. Just as much as abortion does. It causes irreparable harm to the body of the person doing the smoking, and considerable harm to people who are around the smoker (2nd-hand smoke). My husband smokes. He is kind enough to do it OUTSIDE, and he does not smoke anywhere near our son. I'm not thrilled about it, but I live with it, because he is minimizing the damage he does to other people.

And I have a $600k life insurance policy on him.

In fact it looks like Biden took communion at guess what surprise surprise and lgbt affirming church. As if we couldn't have guessed.. so thats two sins.

Wait. Now it's a sin to affirm life? You want it both ways. You want to be pro-life and anti-life. Sorry, sunshine, that's not how it works. You can either affirm life or not. You can't say that you're pro-life, and then out of that same mouth say you don't affirm life. If you affirm life, you affirm life.

If you are going to be against anything that is life-affirming, then you're not life-affirming. You're just anti-woman.

Why don't you at least admit it?

And I don't want people murdering unborn human beings whoever it is. I tell you what, stop the mother going to the doctor for an abortion.

I would like that, too.

8 of the 10 countries with the LOWEST rates of abortion (Austria, Belgium, Croatia, Greece, India, Portugal, South Africa, and Switzerland) have this in common:

Countries where (a) abortion is available on request, (b) health care is free, and (c) parents (both mothers and fathers) are protected (by the government) from losing their job when they have children.

The two countries missing in the list above? Abortion is still legal, it's just restricted to save the life or health of the mother.

So, if you REALLY want to lower the rate of ***abortions,*** here's how you do it:

(1) Undo all the recent laws restricting abortion. Those will only increase the number of abortions (that's what always happens, see below).

(2) Institute any sort of single-payer medical system. There are literally dozens of different ways to work this. France has a two-tier system, not unlike what we do for education (with public schools and private schools). They have a national health plan for anyone who needs it, and then more expensive private health care available for anyone who can afford it. Both are SIGNIFICANTLY cheaper than Medicare (the cheapest option here, if you can get it). In Canada, they have that evil "socialized medicine." They complain about how long the waiting lists are. Not even close to as bad as the US. And again, 100x cheaper. I could call my doctor here in Oregon, start walking from here to Canada, and get served in Canada before my US doctor will see me.

(3) Provide protection for US employees, so they don't think they have to choose between having a baby and keeping a job.

The statistics are clear. Making abortion illegal will not save any lives. It will cost more lives. For the same exact reason that making guns illegal is stupid. People will still kill. They'll just find stupider ways to do it. Women who are desperate will find a way to kill their unborn child. If you take away their fear, remove the barriers to keeping the child, they won't get the abortion. As is evidenced by the countries above. Free health care, protection from losing their jobs.

And when they really NEED the abortion -- in cases of health crisis -- they don't have to petition a freaking government panel to do it. They go to a DOCTOR, who has already taken an oath to do no harm. There isn't one doctor on this planet who will provide an abortion for a woman who doesn't "need" it for some reason or another. You might think the woman is being selfish, but the doctor has counseled the woman, and has decided that the woman's health is at enough of a risk to warrant her not going through with it. I have not been in the room with every single patient who has discussed an abortion with her doctor. I don't know what the reason is for every single woman. But I DO know that I trust doctors, and the oath they took, 1,000x more than I trust ANY politician.

And if you trust politicians more than you trust doctors, you are not a Christian.

It's as simple as that. If you put your trust in human institutions, you're not a Christian.

Yes. murdering unborn humans is not acceptable.

Murdering born humans is not acceptable, either.

And yet, it happens.

What are you prepared to give up to make it impossible for humans to kill other humans.

We can make it happen.

We can have the government kill everyone who ever murders anyone, upon their first offense. That would probably bring the murder rates down a little. Would you be in favor of that? Never mind if it was for cause. Accidental death due to impaired driving? Kill the teenager who was texting and driving. So sorry, mom and dad, your daughter killed another family, so she's going to die, too. I guarantee that will bring down the rate of murder.

Oh, I have an idea. Let's just lock everyone up. Every man, woman, and child. Can't leave your house to do anything. Food will be delivered to you. After all, we can't trust anyone not to murder, so we have to assume that they're going to murder.

This is what you seem to think is necessary. You can't trust people not to murder, so you don't give them a choice.

At least no one is murdering. Well, I suspect family murders will spike, as we saw over the last 15 months.

You seem to think chow humans are conceived and born is something you should prevent.

do you mean "how"?

Even if you do, I still don't understand your statement.

"How humans are conceived and born is something you should prevent"?

No. I don't care ***how*** they are conceived. Although if you're still wondering about that, you need to have a discussion with your doctor.

I don't want to prevent ANYONE from conceiving or giving birth, if it's something they want. YOU are the one who is trying to prevent OTHER PEOPLE from THEIR free choices.

If a couple doesn't want to have children, for whatever reason(s), then I think they should take any of a variety of steps to prevent pregnancy. This could include abstinence (though if you're married, that seems completely unrealistic), oral contraceptives, injections and implants, surgery ... there are literally dozens, maybe hundreds of options available today. (When I was that age, there were only a few.) But that's up to the couple. I am not going to tell a couple they should or should not conceive. It's a personal choice.

As I said, you're the one trying to tell people what they can and cannot do.

So you would give an organ to save a life whilst you would murder your own offspring?

You know, you should go to your doctor and tell him or her that you're having problems with memory. This could be a sign of early-onset Alzheimer's or any other of a number of conditions.

Or are you just a pathological liar?

Which is it? Have you forgotten that I've said, no fewer than 4 times, that I am against abortion?

Or are you purposely lying?

If the Iraqi interpreters are still living then they are in a better position than the unborn humans killed in pro-choice abortion

Some of them are not. They've already been killed. Others are in danger of being killed.

And I happen to agree with your Scripture that a live human is more precious than an unborn child. Both are precious, but in a heirarchy, there's a difference.

I bet you agree.

Here's a quick test to find out.

Let's say you're in a fertility clinic, and a fire suddenly breaks out. On one side, there are 1,000 embryos. On another, 2 babies. You can either save the embryos or the babies, but not both.

Which do you save?

If you believe, like you claim, that an embryo is exactly the same as a baby who has already been born, you would save the embryos and let the fire burn the two babies.

If you REALLY believe that, go ahead and prove me wrong. Tell me you would let two babies burn alive and save the 1,000 embryos.

Most people with any moral compass at all would save the two babies and let the embryos go.

Is it sad? Of course. It would be better if they all could be saved. But the reality is that babies after birth are more human than before birth.

Just like eggs aren't chicken, and butterflies aren't caterpillars. Doesn't mean butterflies and eggs are nothing. Just means they're not the same.

Pretending you know God and others don't because you don't agree with God's word, doesn't work with me.

You're the one who disagrees with your Scripture, honey. Twice God says pre-born humans are less important than post-born humans.

You're welcome to disagree, but don't pretend you're on the side of "god's word" when you're in direct contradiction with it.

 

[Authentic Nouveau]

I have answered your points many times.

I am pro-choice because I don't want the government making the decision for women that should be made between a woman and her doctor.

To kill her baby. Who speaks for the baby?

 

[Bob Carabbio]

The Catholic Council of Bishops is considering making a statement saying that members who are Catholic but "pro-choice" (such as President Biden) should not be allowed to take Eucharist (Communion).

Now, I know many Christians here think Catholics aren't even Christian, so it doesn't matter what they do or say. If this is you, then just move on.

But if you think the bishops are right ... or if you think churches should "discipline" members for having pro-choice views, let me ask you this:

Do you think church elders should excommunicate members who smoke? After all, smoking kills over 8 million people around the world every year. (reference: WHO)

So does Driving cars, so should everybody who drives a car be "Excommunicated"

In the case of normal abortion (done for the "Convenience" of the parent/murderers) comparing with "Smoking" is beyond ridiculous.

Two people have participated in SEXUAL INTERCOURSE, which resulted in the CONCEPTION of a Baby - that the people who CREATED him/her through their OWN ACTIONS - don't want to be bothered with. SO to avoid the responsibility, Complication, Expense, etc, They go to a contract murderering organization, and have them make their problem go away (for a price).

And YOU SEE THAT as the same as "Smoking", or Being in the military, or opposing "gun control"

A person who supports abortion rights isn't saying they think abortion is a good thing. No woman is going out and purposely getting pregnant just so that she can get an abortion. No one does that. With very few exceptions, MOST people are pro-choice because they think parents are responsible Americans who can decide, in consultation with each other, a doctor, and hopefully a spiritual mentor (such as a pastor or rabbi) what steps to take. And that sometimes, God forbid, they might actually have to get an abortion to protect someone or something, and that they have the CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT to make that decision for themselves. Abortion needs to remain the choice of the INDIVIDUAL and the MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL, not legislated by some group of lawmakers who y'all can't even trust to elect a president.

Naturally the Parent/Murderers would seek out "Council" that will tell them what they want to hear - i.e. that their SELFISH DESIRES are O.K. - moral, and even PRAISEWORTHY!!!

Whether YOU like or not "Pro-Choice" really only means "Pro-MURDER" which is the stock in trade of "Planned Parenthood" as an organization. They'll help you murder your baby (and then sell it's parts for additional income), but that's about all.

 

[BMS]

That is not a question. I can't answer something that isn't a question.

That wasn't a question, that was a statement because you haven't answered my questions.
You ARE very confused.

Yes, I believe that smoking is a sin.

Yes ok but not murdering unborn humans? (that was a question ie it had the "?" symbol)

Wait. Now it's a sin to affirm life? You want it both ways. You want to be pro-life and anti-life. Sorry, sunshine, that's not how it works. You can either affirm life or not. You can't say that you're pro-life, and then out of that same mouth say you don't affirm life. If you affirm life, you affirm life.

No its not a sin to affirm life, its a sin to kill life for self convenience as in pro-choice abortion.
My point was that Biden goes to an lgbt affirming church, which in fact of course isnt affirming life because God created man and woman to be in faithful union and the scripture warns same sex relations are a barrier to the Kingdom (Lev 18 & 20, 1 Cor 6, Romans 1, 1 Tim 1)
Read Matthew 19 and Mark 10, and then Genesis 1 & 2. Who do you think the 'us' and 'our' was? Jesus is part of the Trinity and in the beginning was the word. So Jesus could not find a companion for man so He took the side from man and created woman and presented woman to man.
23 The man said,

“This is now bone of my bones
and flesh of my flesh;
she shall be called ‘woman,’
for she was taken out of man.”

24 That is why a man leaves his father and mother and is united to his wife, and they become one flesh.

If you are going to be against anything that is life-affirming, then you're not life-affirming.

Obviously I am life affirming and lgbt isnt.. according to the Biblical testimony of Jesus.

You're just anti-woman.

You are just anti Jesus. The image of God is a man and a woman. When they come together in marriage, or separately at the resurrection of the dead (Matthew 22, Galatians 3) It completes the union with Christ and His church.
Nothing about lgbt in the Bible.. what is it lilly gilly billy and tilly?

Why don't you at least admit it?

Unlike you I seek to follow Jesus. That is why I quote what I seek to follow and you merely tell others that you do and they dont.

So, if you REALLY want to lower the rate of ***abortions,*** here's how you do it:

Nope. If one really wants to lower the rate of abortions one needs to spread the gospel of Jesus Christ. Then people realise the image of God is man and woman and sex is primarily for procreation and pleasure within a faithful marriage for the upbringing of children. Then people realise the one flesh is the fulfilment of God's image. Then people realise what the creation is that God delights in them.

Murdering born humans is not acceptable, either.

EITHER???? That means you dont think murdering unborn humans is acceptable either, yet you are defending it. Your responses are so confused.

What are you prepared to give up to make it impossible for humans to kill other humans.

I cant force anyone to believe the truth of Jesus Christ. What are you prepared to give up "to make it impossible for humans to kill other humans"?

do you mean "how"?

yes.

"How humans are conceived and born is something you should prevent"?

My point is, if sexual intercourse between a man and a woman occurs then there is a good chance conception will occur. Furthermore if contraception fails, conception may occur. So there are consequences to sexual intimacy. I suspect you don't accept the responsibility involved.

As I said, you're the one trying to tell people what they can and cannot do.

Or rather you are. Conception cannot be prevented by what people want, unless by abstinence or contraception.

And I happen to agree with your Scripture that a live human is more precious than an unborn child. Both are precious, but in a heirarchy, there's a difference.

Ok which scripture?

Here's a quick test to find out.

Let's say you're in a fertility clinic, and a fire suddenly breaks out. On one side, there are 1,000 embryos. On another, 2 babies. You can either save the embryos or the babies, but not both.[/quote] The babies. What are 1000 embryos doing there? Is it a fertility clinic or a maternity ward?

And we are discussing whether Biden should be allowed to take communion, and even whether he is in the right frame of mind to know what he is doing, not your scenarios.

You're the one who disagrees with your Scripture, honey. Twice God says pre-born humans are less important than post-born humans.

Yet you are the one not quoiting or citing any scripture and I am the one who is. YOU ARE THE ONE who disagrees with scripture AS DEMONSTRATED

You're welcome to disagree, but don't pretend you're on the side of "god's word" when you're in direct contradiction with it.

I dont pretend I am on the side of God's word, I have quoted it to show you what it is.

 

[BMS]

Is it pro-life to deny the sacrament? Well:

There is a difference of views as to the exact nature of communion. For the RC church transubstantiation is important. However one thing we can be sure of is Christ asked His followers to share bread and wine in remembrance of His sacrifice for the forgiveness of sin.
Jesus also taught that it is not about obeying law, but rather if we love Him we will do what He teaches because we love Him. We seek to follow and obey all He taught and if we do God lives in us and we in Him. (john 14-17, Matt 26 etc)

For me the key teaching would be:
23 For I received from the Lord what I also passed on to you: The Lord Jesus, on the night he was betrayed, took bread, 24 and when he had given thanks, he broke it and said, “This is my body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of me.” 25 In the same way, after supper he took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood; do this, whenever you drink it, in remembrance of me.” 26 For whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes. 27 So then, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. 1 Cor 11.

So refusing communion to Biden might be a kindness to him in itself. But if Biden cant obey the rules of his church, what sort of an example does that set for the citizens of the USA?

 

[Authentic Nouveau]

I would say if he has repented from the divorce and repented from supporting abortion, and repented from supporting lgbt stuff then that is what the communion is for.

Oh my. Wow. All he has to do is a deep and sincere repentance? Wow. Then he can be filled with the Holy Spirit.

David the psalmist said (Biden called him Palmist)

Cast me not away from your presence, and take not your Holy Spirit from me.Psalms 51:11. David saw the misery when God was finished with King Saul.

 

[HillsboroMom]

That wasn't a question, that was a statement because you haven't answered my questions.
You ARE very confused.

I have answered all your questions. If you think I haven't answered a question, please state a question and I will answer it.

Yes ok but not murdering unborn humans? (that was a question ie it had the "?" symbol)

It's not a question just because it has a question mark. "Not murdering unborn children" isn't even a complete sentence, let alone a question.

If your question is: "Do you believe murdering unborn children is a sin?" then the answer is YES, which I have said MANY TIMES. As I said, you need to see a doctor about your condition, because it is really quite worrisome. Alzheimer's is a horrible disease, but there are some things you can do if you catch it early enough.

I also believe lying is a sin. You don't seem to believe that, which is also worrisome.

No its not a sin to affirm life, its a sin to kill life for self convenience as in pro-choice abortion.

Then why do you accuse others of sinning when they affirm life? I'm confused because you keep changing the rules when it suits you, and that is neither Christian nor Scriptural. Jesus didn't change the rules when it suited him.

Unlike you I seek to follow Jesus. That is why I quote what I seek to follow and you merely tell others that you do and they dont.

Keep seeking. You might find him if you stop following men's words about him.

Or rather you are. Conception cannot be prevented by what people want, unless by abstinence or contraception.

So you think married couples should abstain if they can't afford to have children? Where in the Bible is that?

Or are you ready to admit that you believe in your own ideas, and not in the Bible?

The babies.

So, two babies are more precious than 1000 fertilized embryos. Even you admit that a fertilized embryo is not nearly as precious the same thing as a baby.

Yet you still equate the killing of a fetus with murder.

YOU are confused.

YOU ARE THE ONE who disagrees with scripture AS DEMONSTRATED.

 

[BMS]

I have answered all your questions. If you think I haven't answered a question, please state a question and I will answer it.

So the statement was " My point is what Jesus made the communion, His body broken for the forgiveness of sin."
So what is the sin? Is it what you say is sin or what I say is sin, or what the New Testament says?

It's not a question just because it has a question mark.

Anything to avoid the issue hey? (That is also a question by the way)

"Not murdering unborn children" isn't even a complete sentence, let alone a question.

Yes it is in context. Pro-choice abortion is murdering unborn children thats for sure.

If your question is: "Do you believe murdering unborn children is a sin?"

Yes, and do you believe pro-choice abortion is a sin?
The point is if we are going to support sin then no point of communion because communion is to receive forgiveness for sin.

I also believe lying is a sin. You don't seem to believe that, which is also worrisome.

Of course lying is a sin.

"Out the things that come out of a person’s mouth come from the heart, and these defile them. 19 For out of the heart come evil thoughts—murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander. - Matthew 15

Then why do you accuse others of sinning

Why do you support others in sin?
If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us. 1 John 1

for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, - Romans 3

when they affirm life?

What life? Pro-choice abortion kills the unborn human. That is the opposite of life. That was my response in the last post, yet you have just repeated the same claim I have asked you to reveal. What life is affirmed in pro-choice abortion?

Keep seeking. You might find him if you stop following men's words about him.

What other words are there about Him apart from the Biblical Testimony about Him? Read His Biblical testimony carefully and find out who Jesus is.

So you think

Let me stop you there. I KNOW conception cannot be prevented by what people want and feel, only by abstinence or contraception. So you think reality is unacceptable.. Bad luck

Or are you ready to admit that you believe in your own ideas, and not in the Bible?

I have been quoting the Bible, you haven't. Do you even know what you are chatting about?

So, two babies are more precious than 1000 fertilized embryos.

Which would you save? presumably the 1000 fetilized embryos. Where are 1000 fertilized embroys stored?
Your scenario was between the two. If it is the mother's life or the unborn life I would say abort, but that is not pro-choice!. And that is not what Biden is saying or supporting.

Yet you still equate the killing of a fetus with murder.

Dont give me the mentally deranged fetus crap. You are one who thinks foetus when its a human being in the womb. Abortion also murders the unborn human at embryo stage.
When a mother kills her own offspring she, thats the biggest form of hatred of humanity.

YOU are confused.

You need to find Jesus Christ.

YOU ARE THE ONE who disagrees with scripture AS DEMONSTRATED.

I have quoted all the scripture and you have posted all your ideas.

 

[BMS]

Anyway, Biden doesnt seem to be bothered and he can soon find an lgbtqi church to offer him communion

 

[BMS]

The whole of this thread is really about how one receives the communion. We aren't talking about the hypocrisy of refusing communion to anyone when we are all sinners, and we are not even talking about not confessing sin, but someone who is supportive of sin such as pro-choice abortion and same sex relations.
Remember, if we deny we sin the truth isn't in us. We cant receive forgiveness for sin if we dont acknowledge the sin.

 

[J regia]

The whole of this thread is really about how one receives the communion. We aren't talking about the hypocrisy of refusing communion to anyone when we are all sinners, and we are not even talking about not confessing sin, but someone who is supportive of sin such as pro-choice abortion and same sex relations.
Remember, if we deny we sin the truth isn't in us. We cant receive forgiveness for sin if we dont acknowledge the sin.

But where does the bible say that pro-choice abortion is sin, given that the bible commands the pregnancies of adulteresses to be terminated (Leviticus 20:10 Numbers 5:20-28)?

And where does the bible say that same-sex relations are sin, such as men lying on the breasts of men they love (John 21:20)?

 

[HillsboroMom]

Yes, and do you believe pro-choice abortion is a sin?

Yes, and I have said so many, many times.

Do you believe lying is a sin?

If so, why do you continue to do it?

What should be the punishment for sin? Should you be banned from receiving communion? Should you be kicked out of church? Clearly, you continue to lie, and don't seem to be interested in repenting or stopping the behavior.

According to ***my*** faith, your sin is between you and your god. It's not up to me to judge you, or to send you to hell.

But YOU seem to be saying that you, or pastors, or churches have the right to kick others out of church if members remain in sin.

And since YOU are continually sinning, I have to wonder what kind of situation that puts you in. Do you really hate yourself, or what?

Why do you support others in sin?

I support others, period.

And since you yourself admit:

If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us. 1 John 1

for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, - Romans 3

That means I support other sinners.

Which would you save? presumably the 1000 fetilized embryos.

Um, no. I would save the babies, because I believe, as I have said multiple times, that humans post-birth are more important than those pre-birth. Something you can't seem to wrap your little head around, despite it being clear in Scripture.

Where are 1000 fertilized embroys stored?

That doesn't matter.

Your scenario was between the two. If it is the mother's life or the unborn life I would say abort, but that is not pro-choice!.

That is EXACTLY pro-choice. You would take that CHOICE away from mothers and doctors and give it to senators. Those who are "pro-choice," such as me and Mr. Biden, believe that if it's between a mother or an unborn life, then the mother and doctor should CHOOSE. It's right there in the name, sunshine. I don't understand how you can be so dense.

And that is not what Biden is saying or supporting.

It is exactly what he is supporting.

Dont give me the mentally deranged fetus crap.

I have no idea what you're talking about. And the more you talk, the more mentally deranged YOU sound. You should have probably given up a long time ago, because you keep digging yourself deeper and deeper. Between your lies and your lack of understanding, I don't even know how to respond.

You are one who thinks foetus when its a human being in the womb.

First, it's spelled "fetus" in English.

And I'm not the only one who thinks a human being in the womb is called a "fetus." That is accepted by every scientist, every doctor, and every human being with an IQ over 10. If you don't accept basic science and the basic definition of words, that's your problem, not mine.

When a mother kills her own offspring she, thats the biggest form of hatred of humanity.

When a so-called Christian turns his or her back on other human beings, that's way more hateful. Jesus said so. The Prophets said so.

You need to find Jesus Christ.

The god you worship is not the God described in the Bible. I have no interest in "finding" that false demon. Thank you. I'll leave demon worship to you and your ilk.

 

[BMS]

I support others, period.

I dont support the sin of others, I just support others in finding Jesus who can forgive sin through faith in Him. Jesus Christ's NT witness says "31 Jesus answered them, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. 32 I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.”
Its to repentance HillsboroMom. One cant repent from sin if one doesn't agree it is sin and one thinks it is fine to support sin without any remorse or attempt to stop. That we all continue to fall short and sin doesnt mean we should be sinning! It means we seek not to sin and confess our sins and then we can receive the forgiveness.
And this is the gospel of Jesus Christ.
This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins. - 1 John 4

That is EXACTLY pro-choice. You would take that CHOICE away from mothers and doctors and give it to senators.

The choice to kill their own offspring? Yes.

Those who are "pro-choice," such as me and Mr. Biden, believe that if it's between a mother or an unborn life, then the mother and doctor should CHOOSE.

Ah but that to me as explained isnt pro-choice. Come on a 12 year old can grasp this. Pro-choice is not where the mother or baby may die, its where the mother is allowed to choose to kill her offspring.

I have no idea what you're talking about.

That is because you have no idea, period! You cant seem to follow a logical argument.
As far as the human being is concerned, the word child describes the human being at that stage. The word baby describes the human being at that stage and the word embryo describes the human being at that stage. Its not just about the human being at foetal stage. Pro-choice abortion can kill the human being at embryo stage as well.

First, it's spelled "fetus" in English.

It is a human being so who cares!

When a so-called Christian turns his or her back on other human beings, that's way more hateful. Jesus said so. The Prophets said so.

Which is pro-choice abortion. How come you cant see Biden is supporting that very thing in pro-choice abortion. (ie the other human beings are the unborn human beings at embryo and foetal stages.

The god you worship is not the God described in the Bible. I have no interest in "finding" that false demon. Thank you. I'll leave demon worship to you and your ilk.

The God I worship obviously is, as we see, from the quotes I make from the Bible.

 

[Temujin]

Yes, and I have said so many, many times.

Do you believe lying is a sin?

If so, why do you continue to do it?

What should be the punishment for sin? Should you be banned from receiving communion? Should you be kicked out of church? Clearly, you continue to lie, and don't seem to be interested in repenting or stopping the behavior.

According to ***my*** faith, your sin is between you and your god. It's not up to me to judge you, or to send you to hell.

But YOU seem to be saying that you, or pastors, or churches have the right to kick others out of church if members remain in sin.

And since YOU are continually sinning, I have to wonder what kind of situation that puts you in. Do you really hate yourself, or what?


I support others, period.

And since you yourself admit:


That means I support other sinners.


Um, no. I would save the babies, because I believe, as I have said multiple times, that humans post-birth are more important than those pre-birth. Something you can't seem to wrap your little head around, despite it being clear in Scripture.



That doesn't matter.



That is EXACTLY pro-choice. You would take that CHOICE away from mothers and doctors and give it to senators. Those who are "pro-choice," such as me and Mr. Biden, believe that if it's between a mother or an unborn life, then the mother and doctor should CHOOSE. It's right there in the name, sunshine. I don't understand how you can be so dense.



It is exactly what he is supporting.


I have no idea what you're talking about. And the more you talk, the more mentally deranged YOU sound. You should have probably given up a long time ago, because you keep digging yourself deeper and deeper. Between your lies and your lack of understanding, I don't even know how to respond.



First, it's spelled "fetus" in English.

And I'm not the only one who thinks a human being in the womb is called a "fetus." That is accepted by every scientist, every doctor, and every human being with an IQ over 10. If you don't accept basic science and the basic definition of words, that's your problem, not mine.



When a so-called Christian turns his or her back on other human beings, that's way more hateful. Jesus said so. The Prophets said so.



The god you worship is not the God described in the Bible. I have no interest in "finding" that false demon. Thank you. I'll leave demon worship to you and your ilk.

Excellent post.

However, BMS is like me, British, where we spell it foetus. I make a point of using anglicised spelling here in the hope that people realise that though we are neighbours, we have our differences , hence our thoughts and ideas will be coloured differently.

 

[Kade Rystalmane]

The Catholic Council of Bishops is considering making a statement saying that members who are Catholic but "pro-choice" (such as President Biden) should not be allowed to take Eucharist (Communion).

Now, I know many Christians here think Catholics aren't even Christian, so it doesn't matter what they do or say. If this is you, then just move on.

But if you think the bishops are right ... or if you think churches should "discipline" members for having pro-choice views, let me ask you this:

Not Catholic, but I do believe congregations should discipline members for having pro-baby-murder views, so I'll chime in.

Do you think church elders should excommunicate members who smoke? After all, smoking kills over 8 million people around the world every year. (reference: WHO)

You are equating a bad habit that can potentially reduce your lifespan (the same way junk food can) to the immediate, purposeful taking of the life of an unborn child? They are not only not in the same league, they aren't even in the same category of concepts. No one smokes with the intention of taking their own life just as no one eats junk food thinking "man, I don't wanna live, I'm gonna end it all!" >eats an Oreo<

No, I do not believe it would be consistent or scriptural to disfellowship members who smoke. Encourage them to quit. Offer them support for those that want to (like we do at my congregation), but not disfellowship those who just want to do it and be left alone.

Do you think church elders should reject soldiers? They killed over 100 million people in the 20th century. (reference: History.com)

Killing in war is not comparable. Killing in war is authorized in scripture. Now, I believe soldiers have a responsibility to examine their orders and reject those that would require them to do that which is evil (case by case basis) and our military has rules that allow them to do that. But your argument is not specific, but general to the point of addressing their primary function which is to kill enemy combatants.

No, I do not believe it would be consistent or scripture to disfellowship members who are soldiers, even if they have killed enemy combatants.

Do you think churches should kick out anyone who owns a gun? Gun deaths (including suicide) are the #1 killer of Americans under the age of 45. (reference: CDC)

No. I think they should praise them and ask them to be vigilant to protect the congregation from evil people who would do harm to the congregation, up to and including killing them.

All of these things result in death. And yet many Christians have no problem with members who smoke, members who are soldiers, and members who own guns, even though they're at least as deadly as abortion is.

Not even in the same class. This isn't a valid comparison to the murder of innocent life. Being pro-life doesn't mean you aren't willing to kill when necessary. It means you are unwilling to murder a completely innocent life who is absolutely incapable of defending themselves in the most vile act mankind has ever imagined. If you honestly think this is comparable to your scenarios above, then you are not a rational person and may God reward you according to your works.

A person who supports gun ownership isn't saying they think it's good to shoot people. They are saying they believe that Americans have the constitutional right to make their OWN decisions. And that sometimes, God-forbid (literally), they might actually have to protect someone or something, and they might need to use the gun, and a gun owner has the responsibility to make that decision for him or herself.

Clearly, a lot of gun owners make the wrong choices. A lot of gun owners are NOT responsible.

A lot of liberals say the answer is to take guns away from everyone. I think they're wrong. I think that's not going to stop the violence, because even if it were possible (which it isn't), people will find another way to kill each other if you don't address the route cause for the violence.

Not even comparable. Owning a gun isn't murdering an unborn baby. Attempting to make them comparable isn't logical.

A lot of anti-abortion folk would agree with me 100% on the gun issue. Why don't they recognize that the EXACT same thing is true for abortion.

Irrelevant to the question you originally asked, which is about being consistent with our faith, consistent with scripture.

A person who supports abortion rights isn't saying they think abortion is a good thing. No woman is going out and purposely getting pregnant just so that she can get an abortion. No one does that.

If you think this, then you aren't paying attention. Take Irene Vilar for example who has an "abortion addiction" and has murdered 15 children in 16 years. Or the women who wear t-shirts boasting about their abortions. They revel in their murder.

With very few exceptions, MOST people are pro-choice because they think parents are responsible Americans who can decide, in consultation with each other, a doctor, and hopefully a spiritual mentor (such as a pastor or rabbi) what steps to take. And that sometimes, God forbid, they might actually have to get an abortion to protect someone or something, and that they have the CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT to make that decision for themselves. Abortion needs to remain the choice of the INDIVIDUAL and the MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL, not legislated by some group of lawmakers who y'all can't even trust to elect a president.

Whatever their excuses for murdering babies, it's still murdering babies. There is no justifying it. Your Constitutional rights end where another's person's begins. You do not have the Constitutional right to murder.

And more importantly, even if you think a person shouldn't have the right to get an abortion if it's needed, or to own a gun, or to vote, or to practice your own religion the way you see fit, or whatever constitutional right you think a person shouldn't have....

Why on earth would you ban someone from the grace of Jesus for having that political belief?

If you think that's okay, you don't know Jesus.

This is a perfect example of one who is calling evil good and good evil (Isa. 5:20). If you don't already know the answer to your last question, then it is not likely any rational person could explain it to you. Their answer won't make sense to your mind.

 

[Kade Rystalmane]

“The next Republican that tells me I’m not religious I’m going to shove my rosary beads down their throat,” Biden said in 2005

Or apparently a nuke, I hear.

 

[Kade Rystalmane]

I am pro-choice because I don't want the government making the decision for women that should be made between a woman and her doctor.

The next time someone breaks into your home to murder you, perhaps the government will just let that remain between you and your murderer...

 

[HillsboroMom]

The next time someone breaks into your home to murder you, perhaps the government will just let that remain between you and your murderer...

Often they do.

It is legal in most states to shoot someone if they break into your home.

Yet you think that should not be legal. You think the government should make all your decisions for you, including whether it's okay to kill someone to protect your own health or property.

You and I clearly disagree about the amount of power the government should have. I don't believe we should be sheep with regard to the secular government. I am a sheep for my Shepherd only. Not for any human.

Yet, I support your right to worship the government, if you so choose.

Would you support my right not to worship human power?