How Religiously Neutral are the Anti-Creationist Organizations?

Septextura

Well-known member
National Council for Special Education (NCSE) exposed.


The agenda of the NCSE and the Australian Skeptics is to see everyone taught that evolution explains the origins of everything, so God is unnecessary in this scientific view. This totally contradicts the clear teaching of the Bible that God is clearly revealed in what He has created.
 

rossum

Active member
This totally contradicts the clear teaching of the Bible that God is clearly revealed in what He has created.
The created world clearly reveals that the teaching in the Bible is incorrect.

The Bible has birds (day 5) before land animals (day 6). The evidence of the world clearly shows that this is incorrect. Land animals appeared a long time before birds.

The world does not rest on pillars, it does move and there is no brass dome in the sky holding up the "waters above".

You would do well to find a better justification for accepting the Bible as true. Even your fellow Christians ignore parts of it; how many Bible believers these days go around killing witches, as the Bible says?
 

Mr Laurier

Well-known member
National Council for Special Education (NCSE) exposed.


The agenda of the NCSE and the Australian Skeptics is to see everyone taught that evolution explains the origins of everything, so God is unnecessary in this scientific view. This totally contradicts the clear teaching of the Bible that God is clearly revealed in what He has created.
that would be nonsense.
Creation Ministries International is a bunch of well exposed liars
 

The Pixie

Active member
National Council for Special Education (NCSE) exposed.

The agenda of the NCSE and the Australian Skeptics is to see everyone taught that evolution explains the origins of everything, so God is unnecessary in this scientific view. This totally contradicts the clear teaching of the Bible that God is clearly revealed in what He has created.
You should take a look at the Clergy Letter project.

It has signatures of 15,648 members of the Christian Clergy saying they support evolution. Evolution apparently does NOT contradict the clear teaching of the Bible. Only the specific interpretation of it by some Christians.
 

Temujin

Well-known member
National Council for Special Education (NCSE) exposed.


The agenda of the NCSE and the Australian Skeptics is to see everyone taught that evolution explains the origins of everything, so God is unnecessary in this scientific view. This totally contradicts the clear teaching of the Bible that God is clearly revealed in what He has created.
If the clear teaching of the Bible is interpreted in a way that totally contradicts reality, that is not reality's problem. I suggest that you either ditch the narrow and parochial interpretation you currently espouse or you ditch the Bible. If you choose to ditch reality, don't expect anyone else to join you and you only have yourself to blame.

Most Christians have no problem accepting evolution. Indeed, more theists than non- theists support evolution. There is no justification for watering down facts in order to pander to a narrow sect.
 

Septextura

Well-known member
You should take a look at the Clergy Letter project.

It has signatures of 15,648 members of the Christian Clergy saying they support evolution. Evolution apparently does NOT contradict the clear teaching of the Bible. Only the specific interpretation of it by some Christians.

* * * ENDORSEMENTS * * *

The Interfaith Solidarity Network has endorsed The Clergy Letter Project's Climate Crisis Letter.

The Humanist Clergy Letter has been endorsed by the Society for Humanistic Judaism and is supported by The Humanist Society.

The Clergy Letter Project has been officially endorsed by the Presbyterian Church (USA). The 2016 General Assembly voted overwhelmingly in favor on 22 June 2016.

The Clergy Letter Project has been officially endorsed by The United Methodist Church worldwide!

The Clergy Letter Project has been officially endorsed by the Presbytery of the Cascades, a governing body that includes 101 Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) congregations in the states of Washington, Oregon and even one in Northern California!

The Clergy Letter Project has been officially endorsed by the Southeast Florida Diocese of the Episcopal Church!

The Clergy Letter Project has been officially endorsed by the
Southwestern Washington Synod of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America!


Wow. So much apostasy. 😐
 

The Pixie

Active member
Wow. So much apostasy. 😐
People from many different religions - and no religion - accept that evolution is true. That is because evolution is actually religiously neutral. It does not say there is no God, just as it does not say Buddhism is true.

The Clergy Letter Project does include non-Christians, However, the figure I quoted - 15,648 - is the number of Christian Clergy who have signed it. They signed it because (a) they do not see any conflict between Christianity and evolution and (b) they think evolution is true.
 

Septextura

Well-known member
People from many different religions - and no religion - accept that evolution is true. That is because evolution is actually religiously neutral. It does not say there is no God, just as it does not say Buddhism is true.

The Clergy Letter Project does include non-Christians, However, the figure I quoted - 15,648 - is the number of Christian Clergy who have signed it. They signed it because (a) they do not see any conflict between Christianity and evolution and (b) they think evolution is true.

If you don't believe in divine creation as described in the Bible you are not a Christian. No ways around that.
 

Temujin

Well-known member
If you don't believe in divine creation as described in the Bible you are not a Christian. No ways around that.
So, who elected you Pope? How come you get to decide who is and is not a Christian? You can run your own little sect, but the rest of the world will continue to recognise all those who acknowledge the divinity of Christ as Christians, whatever their views on exactly how divine creation was manifest.
 

rossum

Active member
If you don't believe in divine creation as described in the Bible you are not a Christian. No ways around that.
Congratulations on reducing Christianity to one of the world's smallest religions with a few dozen believers who accept a flat earth supported on pillars.

Do you believe that the earth is supported on pillars? If you don't then, according to you, you are not a Christian.
 

The Pixie

Active member
If you don't believe in divine creation as described in the Bible you are not a Christian. No ways around that.
A lot of Christians disagree with you. The reason they disagree is that the evidence FOR evolution is so strong, and the evidence AGAINST the world being created in six days is so strong.

Do you believe Good created a solid dome over the flay earth? That is what the Bible describes. Why do you chose to reject the words of the Bible in that instance? Because you know as well as I do that the evidence is overwhelming for there being no solid firmament and for the earth being round. Just as you ignore those claims of the Bible there, so a lot of Christians (most I think) ignore the Bible on six days of creation.
 

Septextura

Well-known member
The reason they disagree is that the evidence FOR evolution is so strong, and the evidence AGAINST the world being created in six days is so strong.

Wrong. However, let's put aside that evidence for speciation is incredibly weak and the evidence against it is exceedingly strong. If you use secular knowledge and academia to interpret the Bible and not the opposite, you're not a Christian.
 

rossum

Active member
If you use secular knowledge and academia to interpret the Bible and not the opposite, you're not a Christian.
Then yet again, you are saying that you are not a Christian. Were you born knowing Biblical Hebrew and New Testament Greek? Do you only read the Bible in the original languages? Or could it be that you are using your secular knowledge of English to read a translation of the Bible by scholars who used their secular knowledge of ancient languages to translate the text?

You really need to think through what you post more thoroughly before you post it.
 

The Pixie

Active member
No it is not. There is abundant evidence that shows the world is ancient from starlight to radiometric dating to the geological record. Even ancient history tells us the planet is over 6000 years old.

However, let's put aside that evidence for speciation is incredibly weak and the evidence against it is exceedingly strong. If you use secular knowledge and academia to interpret the Bible and not the opposite, you're not a Christian.
So like you do for a flat earth and a solid dome? Are you not a Christian then?
 

The Pixie

Active member
Where does the Bible say the Earth is flat and has a dome?
The whole of Genesis 1 makes sense only if the world is flat. It starts with God creating a kind of bubble in the waters, with the firmament keeping the waters above off us.

Genesis 1: 6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. 7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so. 8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

There was already daylight because daylight does not come from the sun - it cannot, the sun would not be created for days yet. When God does create the sun, moon and stars, these are small objects set in the solid dome that is the firmament.

Genesis 1:14 And God said, “Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night. And let them be for signs and for seasons,[f] and for days and years, 15 and let them be lights in the expanse of the heavens to give light upon the earth.” And it was so. 16 And God made the two great lights—the greater light to rule the day and the lesser light to rule the night—and the stars. 17 And God set them in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth, 18 to rule over the day and over the night, and to separate the light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 And there was evening and there was morning, the fourth day.

Earth is clearly the centre of the universe; it must be because there was nothing else before that (other than water). All the things we see in the sky are just lights suspended above us. And as they are just lights moving across a solid dome, it is quite reasonable that God could stop their progress for a day.

Joshua 10:12 Then spake Joshua to the Lord in the day when the Lord delivered up the Amorites before the children of Israel, and he said in the sight of Israel, Sun, stand thou still upon Gibeon; and thou, Moon, in the valley of Ajalon. 13 And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.
2 Kings 20:9 And Isaiah said, This sign shalt thou have of the Lord, that the Lord will do the thing that he hath spoken: shall the shadow go forward ten degrees, or go back ten degrees?

This verse makes clear that stars are small things that might fall to earth.

Revelation 6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

Several verses tell us the world stands on pillars:

1 Samuel 2:8 He raiseth up the poor out of the dust, and lifteth up the beggar from the dunghill, to set them among princes, and to make them inherit the throne of glory: for the pillars of the earth are the Lord's, and he hath set the world upon them.

Job 9:6 Which shaketh the earth out of her place, and the pillars thereof tremble.
Psalm 75:3 The earth and all the inhabitants thereof are dissolved: I bear up the pillars of it. Selah.

A couple of verses about the firmament.
Proverbs 8:28 when he made firm the skies above, when he established[d] the fountains of the deep,
Job 37:18 Hast thou with him spread out the sky, which is strong, and as a molten looking glass?

Now I do not doubt you can rationalise these, but in the same way all those Christian clergy who signed the Clergy Letter Project do likewise. Like you, they look at the evidence, and interpret the Bible on that basis. The difference is that their interpretation is based rather more soundly on reality,
 

Temujin

Well-known member
The whole of Genesis 1 makes sense only if the world is flat.
If you try to convince someone who believes in a literal Bible, that a given argument is the only one that makes sense, then you have failed from the off. Given their start point, making sense is not important to them.
 

5wize

Well-known member
If you don't believe in divine creation as described in the Bible you are not a Christian. No ways around that.
Not even close to true. Are you new to Christianity? The pin in the Christian wheel is belief in the resurrection of Jesus and it's relation to salvation via human sacrifice and vicarious redemption. That's it. Many of the early church founders whose decisions that you accept without thought or question didn't even want the old testament as part of the Christian lexicon. Study up.
 

Septextura

Well-known member
The whole of Genesis 1 makes sense only if the world is flat. It starts with God creating a kind of bubble in the waters, with the firmament keeping the waters above off us.

Genesis 1:20
And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.

How can birds fly inside molten glass?

Job 37:18
Hast thou with him spread out the sky, which is strong, and as a molten looking glass?

Clearly they can't. The firmament is a term that means a rooftop, a ceiling. A clear ceiling looking as glass. The metaphoric language describes the environment as a tent, which is what nomadic people of the OT lived in and were familiar with. The waters above are the clouds and rain. You have the 4 corners, the pillars, the cornerstones, rooftop from very strong durable goat hair etc. Heaven means sky, expanse of the heavens means outer cosmos where the stars are. God stretched the heaven across like covering a tent. Do I need to explain the waters above (clouds/rain) and waters bellow?

Isaiah 42:5
Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein:

It's not difficult if you use the Bible to interpret itself. Scripture is autopistos, self-authenticating and self-convincing.

Jesus Christ considered Adam and Eve as historic progenitors. If you don't, then you're not a Christian. No first Adam = no original sin = no last Adam. Simples.
 
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5wize

Well-known member
Isaiah 42:5
Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein:

Scripture is autopistos, self-authenticating and self-convincing.

That's not self-authenticating or self-convincing unless you squint really really hard to have it make sense to your presuppositions. You don't stretch or spread into globes, you stretch and spread flat.
 
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