How the Church Determines Doctrine

Aaron32

Active member
Doctrine If the Church is based on 3 Sources (all of which can be found in the Bible):

1. The Scriptures
“For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning,” (Rom. 15:4.)

“All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness“ (2 Tim. 3:16)

2. The Church
“And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
“For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
“Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
“That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;” (Ephesians 4:11-14)

3. The Holy Ghost
“But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.”(John 14:6)

Some may say that we believe the Bible is insufficient.
Matt Slick makes a great distinction on behalf of the RCC, (another church that claims priesthood authority):
“The Roman Catholic Church says that the Bible is materially sufficient but not formally sufficient. Materially sufficient means that everything the Christian needs to believe is found in Scripture. Formally sufficient means that in order to understand the Bible, the Roman Catholic Church has to interpret it.” (source: https://carm.org/catholic/are-scriptures-sufficient)

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints essentially this viewpoint:
“In addition to the Bible, Latter-day Saints reverence and study the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants, the Pearl of Great Price, and the words of modern prophets and apostles. All these sources of eternal truth work together to establish, clarify, and testify of the plan of our Heavenly Father and to bring people unto Jesus Christ.”

As I was recently informed by a Christian poster on this board that man has three parts: Body, Soul, and Spirit. (Which I agree with) I find that the Church is also composed of 3 parts: Body (members), Soul (scriptures), and Spirit (the Holy Ghost).

Thus, according to the Bible, the Bible itself says it is insufficient on its own to determine doctrine.

To say this is wrong, one must use the same tactic used against members of the church:
Is the Holy Ghost incapable of teaching us?

Was Paul lying when he said the church brings us to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God?
 

brotherofJared

Active member
Was Paul lying when he said the church brings us to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God?
Well, this is the big problem facing the un-unified majority of modern Christian churches, of which we are apart.

So, if Paul wasn't lying, how is this unity supposed to occur, in your opinion?
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
To say this is wrong, one must use the same tactic used against members of the church:
Is the Holy Ghost incapable of teaching us?

Well, He can't teach you if you don't have Him.

How do you explain the lack of unity among all the hundreds of sects within Mormonism?

Was Paul lying when he said the church brings us to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God?

No, Paul wasn't lying.
But Mormonism isn't part of the Christian "church".
 

Bob Carabbio

Active member

How the Church Determines Doctrine​

The "Typical" process is as follows:

1) Form an opinion about what your doctrine will be.

2) Go through the Bible, and find all the scriptures that SUPPORT your opinion, and CATALOG them as your "Proof Texts".

3) Go through the Bible again and find all the Scriptures that REFUTE your opinion, and catalogue them as your "Problem Texts".

4) Invent viable explanations for why your "Problem texts": Don't ACTUALLY refute your opinion / Aren't relative to the subject / Don't apply to us in 2020 / were only for THEM, THEN / aren't "properly translated" / etc.

5) when you've successfully eliminated all your "Problem texts" with #4, Then TEACH your doctrine using #2 as your "Proofs" that your doctrine is accurate.

Simple at that. Church Denominations do this all the time.
 

Aaron32

Active member
Well, He can't teach you if you don't have Him.
But we do have him. It's a core tenet of our beliefs. (Moroni 10:3-5)


How do you explain the lack of unity among all the hundreds of sects within Mormonism?
Not all sects of Mormonism are the true church, just one. They are broken off from priesthood authority.

No, Paul wasn't lying.
But Mormonism isn't part of the Christian "church".
Says who?
 

Aaron32

Active member
The "Typical" process is as follows:

1) Form an opinion about what your doctrine will be.

2) Go through the Bible, and find all the scriptures that SUPPORT your opinion, and CATALOG them as your "Proof Texts".

3) Go through the Bible again and find all the Scriptures that REFUTE your opinion, and catalogue them as your "Problem Texts".

4) Invent viable explanations for why your "Problem texts": Don't ACTUALLY refute your opinion / Aren't relative to the subject / Don't apply to us in 2020 / were only for THEM, THEN / aren't "properly translated" / etc.

5) when you've successfully eliminated all your "Problem texts" with #4, Then TEACH your doctrine using #2 as your "Proofs" that your doctrine is accurate.

Simple at that. Church Denominations do this all the time.
So we're in agreement then?
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
But we do have him. It's a core tenet of our beliefs. (Moroni 10:3-5)

Just because a book says you have Him, doesn't make it true.
Your fruits bear witness that you don't have Him.
Not all sects of Mormonism are the true church, just one. They are broken off from priesthood authority.

Well, isn't that con-VEEEEEEEEEEEnient! :D


In the same way, the Christian church is unified, and since the Mormon church isn't part of the true Christian church, there is no problem with Christ's church not being unified with you.

(See, we can play your game, too!)

Says who?

Says the Bible.
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
Not all sects of Mormonism are the true church, just one. They are broken off from priesthood authority.

Since they say the same thing about you, why should we (or anyone) believe that the LDS church has "priesthood authority"?
 

Aaron32

Active member
Just because a book says you have Him, doesn't make it true.
Your fruits bear witness that you don't have Him.
Keep going....what fruits are those?

Well, isn't that con-VEEEEEEEEEEEnient! :D

In the same way, the Christian church is unified, and since the Mormon church isn't part of the true Christian church, there is no problem with Christ's church not being unified with you.

(See, we can play your game, too!)
First, permit me to remind you, we are not talking about YOUR beliefs, we are talking about mine.
Second, on what basis do you proclaim "the Mormon church isn't part of the true Christian church"?


Says the Bible.
Where in the Bible does it say Mormons are not a part of the Christian church?
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
Keep going....what fruits are those?

Yeah, you'd like me to get banned, wouldn't you?
Fruits like that one.

First, permit me to remind you, we are not talking about YOUR beliefs, we are talking about mine.

First, permit ME to remind YOU, we are not talking about YOUR beliefs (this is not the Aaron32ism forum, as you rightly pointed out), we are talking about your CHURCH's beliefs. Get it straight.

Second, on what basis do you proclaim "the Mormon church isn't part of the true Christian church"?



Where in the Bible does it say Mormons are not a part of the Christian church?


 

Bob Carabbio

Active member
So we're in agreement then?
If you develop your Doctrines that way I described, then you're "Just another denomination" generating your theological "Precious doctrines" like a lot of other denominations do. There's little or NOTHING that I agree with when it comes to the LDS foolishness.
 

Aaron32

Active member
Yeah, you'd like me to get banned, wouldn't you?
No, not all all. You are one of the most knowledgeable people on this board. I value your responses.

Fruits like that one.
Can you be more specific?

First, permit ME to remind YOU, we are not talking about YOUR beliefs (this is not the Aaron32ism forum, as you rightly pointed out), we are talking about your CHURCH's beliefs. Get it straight.
So true. Mormonism is a part of my beliefs. I will do my best to cite my sources so that my claims will not be confused with my personal beliefs.

I'd like to point out some observations:
The points in my OP state doctrine is determined by 3 sources: Scripture, unified members, and the Holy Ghost.

Your point: You don't have the Holy Ghost
I ask: How do you know we don't have the fruits of the Holy Ghost?
Your reply with an unsubstantiated claim.

Your point: Mormons are not part of the Christian Church
I ask: How do you know?
You point to the Bible - being part of the very doctrine we are claiming is being determined.

So, correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems that the underlying question is:
Assuming that the Mormon Church proclaims to believe in the Bible, does it align with it's own doctrine?

Therefore, to minimize confusion, and keep this thread strictly on the topic of how Mormon Church determines doctrine, I essentially will need to create 4 separate responses to identify your un-addressed points.

Post # 1: Points 1 - 3, 9 - The Nature of God
Point 4 - Already answered in my interpretation of Eph 2:8-9
Post # 2: Point 5-7 - Offices of the Priesthood
Post # 3: Point 8 - Eternal Marriage
Post # 4: Point 9 - What is Priestcraft?

Unfortunately, I can't devote my whole day to this, but the posts will be coming in time.

Beyond that, until no other points are challenged in my OP, logically, I have no option but to assume you agree with my points.
 

Aaron32

Active member
If you develop your Doctrines that way I described, then you're "Just another denomination" generating your theological "Precious doctrines" like a lot of other denominations do. There's little or NOTHING that I agree with when it comes to the LDS foolishness.
But if we balance those doctrines, with the Scriptures, and a witness/fruits of the Holy Ghost. Would you agree that THAT is how true doctrine is established?
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
I'd like to point out some observations:
The points in my OP state doctrine is determined by 3 sources: Scripture, unified members, and the Holy Ghost.

Yep, but since you aren't the "Prophet" (Nelson is, right?), then you have no authority to make such proclamations.

Your point: You don't have the Holy Ghost
I ask: How do you know we don't have the fruits of the Holy Ghost?
Your reply with an unsubstantiated claim.

You teach contrary to the Bible and the Holy Spirit.
There's a ton of "substantiation" in the thread I linked for you, but you won't touch it.
I wonder why not?

Just easier to turn a blind eye and pretend I've offered nothing, right?
Well, there's a "fruit" right there, denying the truth, and denying that it has been given to you.

So, correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems that the underlying question is:
Assuming that the Mormon Church proclaims to believe in the Bible, does it align with it's own doctrine?

The Mormon Church CLAIMS to believe in the Bible. (True.)

The Mormon Church ACTUALL believes the Bible. (False.)

Do you understand the difference?

Beyond that, until no other points are challenged in my OP, logically, I have no option but to assume you agree with my points.

<sigh>
Another "fruit" that shows you don't have the Holy Spirit.
Falsely claiming I "agree" with you when I haven't agreed with you.
 

brotherofJared

Active member
How do you explain the lack of unity among all the hundreds of sects within Mormonism?
They are not unified. We don't claim any commonality with them and they don't claim any with us. But this isn't what we see among our critics who seem to insist that they are unified (where it matters 🙄) when they obviously aren't.
 

Bob Carabbio

Active member
But if we balance those doctrines, with the Scriptures, and a witness/fruits of the Holy Ghost. Would you agree that THAT is how true doctrine is established?
You didn't pay enough attention to #3 on my list. And your Church Corporation shows the effects of that. Since the whole LDS structure is built on a collection of LIES from a CON MAN, who probably DID get a miraculous revelation for satan, any discussion of the "Holy Spirit" by a religious system that isn't even recognizably Christian is useless.
 

Aaron32

Active member
Ah, ok.
So your saying this is the missing factor:
3) Go through the Bible again and find all the Scriptures that REFUTE your opinion, and catalogue them as your "Problem Texts".
 

brotherofJared

Active member
here's little or NOTHING that I agree with when it comes to the LDS foolishness.
I can't really tell here, but it appears that you might agree with something when it comes to LDS doctrines. If there is a or conjunction, that indicates that there is a possibility that "little" carries as much weight ans "NOTHING" even though you put it all in caps.

That's good to know. When you figure it out, let us know.
 

brotherofJared

Active member
Don't apply to us in 2020 / were only for THEM, THEN / aren't "properly translated" / etc.
this is a good one. What doesn't apply to us... how do you determine that? Take a vote? How much vote does God get?
Simple at that. Church Denominations do this all the time.
I note that in all 5 steps, no one asked God what his opinion was. What results is the massive chaos that exists in modern Christianity today.
 
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