How to cut abortion rates.

Beloved Daughter

Well-known member
Sorry, but abstinence as a policy is a failure. Not only is it not healthy to totally repress perfectly normal behaviour, but it doesn't happen because it is unsustainable except in very few individuals. You cannot name a single community anywhere in the world at any time in history where total abstinence was actually observed. From nunneries to prisons, navy ships to emergency rooms, someone at some time will be having sex.

Good sex education is as much about empowering young people to say no as it is about helping those who do have sex to do so safely. Having sex in a responsible and caring mutual relationship is what sex education seeks to promote, and I would argue is a good deal more moral than lambasting the vulnerable for having a fully functioning biology.

Here's a thought. Teens know what sex is all about. They know about STD's, and basic anatomy of their respective genders. They know how to get pregnant and how to prevent them. We can educate them ad nauseum, but it won't change teens who lack self control, think without engaging their brains, and behave foolishly.

I believe that sex is between and man and a woman as Jesus describes it Matthew, chapter 19 states. Anything else is sinful and almost always carries consequences. I believe that the phrase "friends with benefits" says it all. Bottom line, responsibility is the casualty. If people can't act responsibly, the thought of murdering their child is easy.
 

Temujin

Well-known member
Here's a thought. Teens know what sex is all about. They know about STD's, and basic anatomy of their respective genders. They know how to get pregnant and how to prevent them. We can educate them ad nauseum, but it won't change teens who lack self control, think without engaging their brains, and behave foolishly.

I believe that sex is between and man and a woman as Jesus describes it Matthew, chapter 19 states. Anything else is sinful and almost always carries consequences. I believe that the phrase "friends with benefits" says it all. Bottom line, responsibility is the casualty. If people can't act responsibly, the thought of murdering their child is easy.
Teenagers who lack effective sex and relationship education believe all sorts of rubbish, that you cannot get pregnant or catch STDs if it is your first time, or if you are standing up, that refusing to have sex makes you frigid. They lack understanding of the boundaries of what is normal and permitted, such as maturation and homosexuality, and what is abnormal and forbidden, such as coercion or violence. Sex education is aimed at instilling a responsible and mature attitude to sex, not just how the plumbing works.

I would add that "anything else is sinful" is neither responsible nor mature and is capable of generating as much harm and misery as an unwanted pregnancy.
 

stiggy wiggy

Well-known member
Sorry, but abstinence as a policy is a failure. Not only is it not healthy to totally repress perfectly normal behaviour, but it doesn't happen because it is unsustainable except in very few individuals. You cannot name a single community anywhere in the world at any time in history where total abstinence was actually observed. From nunneries to prisons, navy ships to emergency rooms, someone at some time will be having sex.

Good sex education is as much about empowering young people to say no as it is about helping those who do have sex to do so safely. Having sex in a responsible and caring mutual relationship is what sex education seeks to promote, and I would argue is a good deal more moral than lambasting the vulnerable for having a fully functioning biology.
But when "being responsible" fails it's OK to kill him or her who is the result of the irresponsibility, even though he or she was not complicit in the irresponsibility, right?
 

Temujin

Well-known member
But when "being responsible" fails it's OK to kill him or her who is the result of the irresponsibility, even though he or she was not complicit in the irresponsibility, right?
In circumstances where abortion is legal and justified then having an abortion is indeed acting responsibly. The foetus has no responsibilities or rights.
 

stiggy wiggy

Well-known member
In circumstances where abortion is legal and justified then having an abortion is indeed acting responsibly. The foetus has no responsibilities or rights.
Explain what magic occurs at birth which suddenly endows an unborn child with enough rights to protect him or her from having his or her brains from being sucked out of his or her head.
 

Mr Laurier

Well-known member
Then what DOES occur at birth which suddenly endows an unborn child with enough rights to protect him or her from having his or her brains from being sucked out of his or her head.
Nothing at all.
And why this bizzare fixation with sucking children's brains out?
 

Mr Laurier

Well-known member
So why suddenly at birth is an unborn child endowed with enough rights to protect him or her from having his or her brains from being sucked out of his or her head?
Because there is no "suddenly" involved.
It is illegal to suck a child's brains out of their head while that child is alive. And only reasonable in autopsy where a pureed brain is needed for testing. Your bizzare fixation with this particular rare action, Rare to the point that I find zero instances outside bad sci/fi movies, is confusing.
 

Temujin

Well-known member
Explain what magic occurs at birth which suddenly endows an unborn child with enough rights to protect him or her from having his or her brains from being sucked out of his or her head.
The "magic" that happens at birth is... birth. And no, I don't be leave that very late term abortion when birth is survivable is justified.
 

Temujin

Well-known member
I agree. So what occurs at birth and suddenly endows an unborn child with enough rights to protect him or her from having his or her brains from being sucked out of his or her head?
Profound physiological changes transforming the baby into an independent organism.. I remind you yet again that I am not an advocate for very late term abortion where the foetus is able to survive birth, so your use of the term "suddenly" is inappropriately dishonest.. Not that that has ever stopped you before.
 
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