How to know that God exists.
- Thread starter yrger
- Start date
You are the one whose head is not in the issue here because you will not address the mistake you are making that we point out to you over and over again..... yet you spit it out as if we didn't crush the theory. Eternal existence does not equate to a creator being with intent. It could just as well be a natural occurrence like a seed forming a tree, a phenomenon that creates life from non life without intent.
stiggy wiggy
Well-known member
Non life? Where is the non-life in the creation of a tree?
How to know that GOD exists? INTERPRETATION OF THE FIRST TWO DAYS OF GOD'S WORK FOR RESTORATION OF HIS GARDEN OF EDEN HERE IN THE EARTH.
The Planet Earth, or rather, the physical Universe already existed, of course. As you know, there was a rebellion of GOD's sons in the Garden of Eden starting by the ruler of Eden, a Cherub, now a former Cherub, who intended to be like GOD or equal to GOD, and to replace the invisible GOD, as you know. Then GOD planned to restore or restitution all things because "men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose"- , in fact the former celestial/heavenly environment turned or had become material and spiritually a chaos, an ABYSS, before GOD the earth was without form, and void; and there was only darkness upon the face of the deep. But GOD was there, was in the darkness that was upon the earth, and the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters-the people that had multiplied, a multitude of people - so the Most High and Almighty GOD with and through JESUS established a Plan of restoring all things as they were before the fall of GOD's sons as was REVEALED TO MOSES around 3000 years after de rebellion in Eden.
According GOD's Plan, in His Omniscience, He had FIRST to wait Moses be born, after 3000 years after the rebellion in Eden, and then to reveal His Plan of restitution of all things by the Power of His Word, and to leave by written His wonderful Plan of restoration in a book-Genesis.
GOD started revealing to MOSES that in the beginning, i.e. in JESUS, He had created heavens, as you know, several heavens, they are the 1st, the 2nd and the 3rd heavens, they are also celestital worlds, AND the heaven of the heavens, actually, they are celestial/ heavenly ENVIRONMENTS created by GOD, they have nothing to do with the things of the physical space of Universe, this is another creation in parallel not revealed as the Word -GOD - had made them.
Besides the four heavens that were planned, by the way, two were already made and still remains, but will be burned with everlasting fire because both are corrupted-2Peter 3:v.7-13, and the next one is the third heaven, that is the next world to be created now-as is revealed in Luke 20:v.35-36-take a look-which will be established in this current millennium.
But what about the earth, the dry land-Genesis 1:v.1?
The earth was created in the third GOD's Day, after the birth of MOSES, 3000 years after the fallen of GOD's sons in Eden, and around 2500 years after the beginning of GODs' works. But before creation ot he earth, the dry land, it was necessary to shine the Light in the darkness. Then said GOD: Let there be light and was light, And GOD saw the light, that it was good: and GOD divided the light from the darkness. And the evening and the morning were the first day (A THOUSAND YEARS-first millennium).
There was a gap of 500 years between the fall of GOD's sons in Eden until GOD starts His works of restoration. The first Day, first millennium- 1000 years more 500 of the gap = 1500 years had passed, and from one side existed a NEW GENERATION of GOD's sons according Genealogy-Genesis 5:v.1 to 32; On the other side there was a CORRUPTED GENERATION-Genesis 6:v.1-12. The 1st Day ended, and the second started. In the beginning of the second Day -something around the first 50 years- was born Noah, it was around year 1056 since the begining of GOD's works, therefore, in the year 1500 after fall of GOD's sons in Eden, as is above mentioned, Noah was around 450 years and living among a corrupt generation. When Noah was 500 years old -Genesis 5:v.32- , it was around 1556 years of GOD's works, "Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord. Noah was a just MAN and perfect in his generations, and Noah WALKED with God. But the earth was corrupt before GOD, and the earth was filled with violence"-Genesis 6:v.8-11. And GOD said to Noah: Make thee an Ark of gopher wood, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven. In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened. Therefore, it was year 1656 from the beginning of GOD's works, or a little more than a Day and a half of GODs' works in the SECOND DAY.
It was the SECOND DAY, Then GOD said, according He had planned: "Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. And GOD made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament(THE DEVILISH AND CORRUPTED GENERATION) from the waters which were above the firmament(GENERATION OF GOD-Genesis 5:v.1 to 32): and it was so. And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second Day".-Genesis 1:v.6-8. The SECOND DAY would go to end after 2000 years from the beginning of GODs' works, after the flood and generations of Noah until the birth of Abraham, from whom was created the people of Israel-the dry land- in the third Day, in the land of Egypt, until the birth of MOSES in the midst of the SECOND DAY. And the children of Israel were fruitful, and increased abundantly, and multiplied, and waxed exceeding mighty; and the land was filled with them. Then the king over Egypt, which knew not Joseph said unto his people: Behold, the people of the children of Israel are more and mightier than we, come on, let us deal wisely with them; lest they multiply, thus the Egyptians under the command of the king Pharaoh, started to afflict the people of Israel with their burdens, tjhey built for Pharaoh treasure cities, but the more they afflicted them, the more they multiplied and grew. And they were grieved because of the children of Israel, and the Egyptians made the children of Israel to serve with rigour, making their lives bitter with hard bondage, in morter, and in brick, and in all manner of service in the field: all their service, wherein they made them serve, was with rigour. Pharaoh ordained if the Hebrew women gave birth to a son, the man child shoud be killed, but if it be a daughter, then she shall live. Exactly in this hostile environment and strong persecution Moses was born, but GOD was watching Satan's movement against Abraham's descendants in Egypt, and was in control to prevent the Devil from murdering Moses. God would use Moses to bring his people, the offspring of Abraham, out of the land of Egypt and create a specific nation for himself as promised to Abraham some 430 years before Moses was born.
Regarding the first two GODs' Days of works, it's that. The third GOD's Day of works would go to start in follow.
I could continue this true and real description of GOD's PLAN , concerning the RESTORATION of all things after the fall of GOD's sons in the garden of Eden, but I stop here for now.
In Christ JESUS, KING of kings(kings made by Him, right-Revelation 5:v.10), and LORD of lords
The Planet Earth, or rather, the physical Universe already existed, of course. As you know, there was a rebellion of GOD's sons in the Garden of Eden starting by the ruler of Eden, a Cherub, now a former Cherub, who intended to be like GOD or equal to GOD, and to replace the invisible GOD, as you know. Then GOD planned to restore or restitution all things because "men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose"- , in fact the former celestial/heavenly environment turned or had become material and spiritually a chaos, an ABYSS, before GOD the earth was without form, and void; and there was only darkness upon the face of the deep. But GOD was there, was in the darkness that was upon the earth, and the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters-the people that had multiplied, a multitude of people - so the Most High and Almighty GOD with and through JESUS established a Plan of restoring all things as they were before the fall of GOD's sons as was REVEALED TO MOSES around 3000 years after de rebellion in Eden.
According GOD's Plan, in His Omniscience, He had FIRST to wait Moses be born, after 3000 years after the rebellion in Eden, and then to reveal His Plan of restitution of all things by the Power of His Word, and to leave by written His wonderful Plan of restoration in a book-Genesis.
GOD started revealing to MOSES that in the beginning, i.e. in JESUS, He had created heavens, as you know, several heavens, they are the 1st, the 2nd and the 3rd heavens, they are also celestital worlds, AND the heaven of the heavens, actually, they are celestial/ heavenly ENVIRONMENTS created by GOD, they have nothing to do with the things of the physical space of Universe, this is another creation in parallel not revealed as the Word -GOD - had made them.
Besides the four heavens that were planned, by the way, two were already made and still remains, but will be burned with everlasting fire because both are corrupted-2Peter 3:v.7-13, and the next one is the third heaven, that is the next world to be created now-as is revealed in Luke 20:v.35-36-take a look-which will be established in this current millennium.
But what about the earth, the dry land-Genesis 1:v.1?
The earth was created in the third GOD's Day, after the birth of MOSES, 3000 years after the fallen of GOD's sons in Eden, and around 2500 years after the beginning of GODs' works. But before creation ot he earth, the dry land, it was necessary to shine the Light in the darkness. Then said GOD: Let there be light and was light, And GOD saw the light, that it was good: and GOD divided the light from the darkness. And the evening and the morning were the first day (A THOUSAND YEARS-first millennium).
There was a gap of 500 years between the fall of GOD's sons in Eden until GOD starts His works of restoration. The first Day, first millennium- 1000 years more 500 of the gap = 1500 years had passed, and from one side existed a NEW GENERATION of GOD's sons according Genealogy-Genesis 5:v.1 to 32; On the other side there was a CORRUPTED GENERATION-Genesis 6:v.1-12. The 1st Day ended, and the second started. In the beginning of the second Day -something around the first 50 years- was born Noah, it was around year 1056 since the begining of GOD's works, therefore, in the year 1500 after fall of GOD's sons in Eden, as is above mentioned, Noah was around 450 years and living among a corrupt generation. When Noah was 500 years old -Genesis 5:v.32- , it was around 1556 years of GOD's works, "Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord. Noah was a just MAN and perfect in his generations, and Noah WALKED with God. But the earth was corrupt before GOD, and the earth was filled with violence"-Genesis 6:v.8-11. And GOD said to Noah: Make thee an Ark of gopher wood, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven. In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened. Therefore, it was year 1656 from the beginning of GOD's works, or a little more than a Day and a half of GODs' works in the SECOND DAY.
It was the SECOND DAY, Then GOD said, according He had planned: "Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. And GOD made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament(THE DEVILISH AND CORRUPTED GENERATION) from the waters which were above the firmament(GENERATION OF GOD-Genesis 5:v.1 to 32): and it was so. And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second Day".-Genesis 1:v.6-8. The SECOND DAY would go to end after 2000 years from the beginning of GODs' works, after the flood and generations of Noah until the birth of Abraham, from whom was created the people of Israel-the dry land- in the third Day, in the land of Egypt, until the birth of MOSES in the midst of the SECOND DAY. And the children of Israel were fruitful, and increased abundantly, and multiplied, and waxed exceeding mighty; and the land was filled with them. Then the king over Egypt, which knew not Joseph said unto his people: Behold, the people of the children of Israel are more and mightier than we, come on, let us deal wisely with them; lest they multiply, thus the Egyptians under the command of the king Pharaoh, started to afflict the people of Israel with their burdens, tjhey built for Pharaoh treasure cities, but the more they afflicted them, the more they multiplied and grew. And they were grieved because of the children of Israel, and the Egyptians made the children of Israel to serve with rigour, making their lives bitter with hard bondage, in morter, and in brick, and in all manner of service in the field: all their service, wherein they made them serve, was with rigour. Pharaoh ordained if the Hebrew women gave birth to a son, the man child shoud be killed, but if it be a daughter, then she shall live. Exactly in this hostile environment and strong persecution Moses was born, but GOD was watching Satan's movement against Abraham's descendants in Egypt, and was in control to prevent the Devil from murdering Moses. God would use Moses to bring his people, the offspring of Abraham, out of the land of Egypt and create a specific nation for himself as promised to Abraham some 430 years before Moses was born.
Regarding the first two GODs' Days of works, it's that. The third GOD's Day of works would go to start in follow.
I could continue this true and real description of GOD's PLAN , concerning the RESTORATION of all things after the fall of GOD's sons in the garden of Eden, but I stop here for now.
In Christ JESUS, KING of kings(kings made by Him, right-Revelation 5:v.10), and LORD of lords
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I said above it was year 1656 from the beginning of GOD's works, or a little more than a Day and a half of GODs' works in the SECOND DAY, when GOD brought a flood of waters upon the earth. To prove this assertion, here goes in accord biblical Chronology, the number our days beginning in Genesis chapter 5, as follow:
In my studies based in the Word of God, the source of the Truth, on God's six Days of creation and one Day of rest (a total of seven days) plus the Scriptures that teach that one Day is with the Lord as a thousand years (Psalm 90:4; 2Pet.3:8; Heb. 4:4) so MANKIND, yeah, MANKIND, would go through six GOD Days of 1,000 years each (a total of 6,000 years) plus a Millennium of 1,000 years rest (now a total of 7,000 years). Actually, Genesis is a Plan of GOD to restitution or restoration of all things-Acts 3:v.17 to 26-, according they were in the garden of Eden.
That said, in accord biblical Chronology, we can number our days beginning in Genesis chapter 5, as follow:
Adam lived …..................................................................130 yrs and begat Seth
Seth lived ………………………………………………….........105 yrs and begat Enosh;
Enosh lived ........................................................................90 yrs and begat Kenan;
Kenan lived.........................................................................70 yrs and begat Mahalalel;
Mahalalel lived .................................................................65 yrs and begat Jared;
Jared lived .......................................................................162 yrs and begat Enoch;
Enoch lived ........................................................................65 yrs and begat Methuselah
Methuselah lived...........................................................187 yrs and begat Lamech;
Lamech lived ..................................................................182 yrs and begat Noah;
From Noah´s birth until the Flood..........................600 yrs.
Total of years from Adam to the Flood =.........1,656 years.
SIX PERIODS OF BIBLICAL TIMES ----------------- DURATION
I - From Adam to the Flood-------------------.------1,656 years
II - From the Flood to Abraham-----------------------427 years
III - From Abraham to Exodus-------------------------430 years-Gal.3:17
IV - From Exodus to king Saul ------------------------396 years
V - From Saul to the fall of Jerusalem ---------------.508 years
VI - From the fall of Jerusalem to Jesus --------------.587 years
Thus, from Adam to the 1st coming of Jesus ------.4,004 years
From Jesus to our days (Christian Calendar)--------.2,021 years
Total from Adam to our days ------------------------6,025 years
VII - The seventh and last period begins now, in this current millennium, the seventh and last millennium, or seventh and last Day, the Lord's Day. The kingdoms OF THIS WORLD are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. Revelation 11:v.15 combined with Luke 20:v.35-36, and Revelation 5:v.10, among others.
How to explain the difference of exactly 240 years in the Jewish calendar if compared with the Christian calendar as above discribed?
In my studies based in the Word of God, the source of the Truth, on God's six Days of creation and one Day of rest (a total of seven days) plus the Scriptures that teach that one Day is with the Lord as a thousand years (Psalm 90:4; 2Pet.3:8; Heb. 4:4) so MANKIND, yeah, MANKIND, would go through six GOD Days of 1,000 years each (a total of 6,000 years) plus a Millennium of 1,000 years rest (now a total of 7,000 years). Actually, Genesis is a Plan of GOD to restitution or restoration of all things-Acts 3:v.17 to 26-, according they were in the garden of Eden.
That said, in accord biblical Chronology, we can number our days beginning in Genesis chapter 5, as follow:
Adam lived …..................................................................130 yrs and begat Seth
Seth lived ………………………………………………….........105 yrs and begat Enosh;
Enosh lived ........................................................................90 yrs and begat Kenan;
Kenan lived.........................................................................70 yrs and begat Mahalalel;
Mahalalel lived .................................................................65 yrs and begat Jared;
Jared lived .......................................................................162 yrs and begat Enoch;
Enoch lived ........................................................................65 yrs and begat Methuselah
Methuselah lived...........................................................187 yrs and begat Lamech;
Lamech lived ..................................................................182 yrs and begat Noah;
From Noah´s birth until the Flood..........................600 yrs.
Total of years from Adam to the Flood =.........1,656 years.
SIX PERIODS OF BIBLICAL TIMES ----------------- DURATION
I - From Adam to the Flood-------------------.------1,656 years
II - From the Flood to Abraham-----------------------427 years
III - From Abraham to Exodus-------------------------430 years-Gal.3:17
IV - From Exodus to king Saul ------------------------396 years
V - From Saul to the fall of Jerusalem ---------------.508 years
VI - From the fall of Jerusalem to Jesus --------------.587 years
Thus, from Adam to the 1st coming of Jesus ------.4,004 years
From Jesus to our days (Christian Calendar)--------.2,021 years
Total from Adam to our days ------------------------6,025 years
VII - The seventh and last period begins now, in this current millennium, the seventh and last millennium, or seventh and last Day, the Lord's Day. The kingdoms OF THIS WORLD are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. Revelation 11:v.15 combined with Luke 20:v.35-36, and Revelation 5:v.10, among others.
How to explain the difference of exactly 240 years in the Jewish calendar if compared with the Christian calendar as above discribed?
Jewish Calendar - How to explain the difference of exactly 240 years in the Jewish calendar?
The Jewish calendar is the type of calendar that the Jewish people use for counting time and commemorating birthdays, festivities, weddings, deaths, religious celebrations and other solemnities. According to the Hebrews, the years are counted from what they believe to be the creation of Adam...
purebibleforum.com
Hi 5wize, you say,
"Eternal existence does not equate to a creator being with intent. It could just as well be a natural occurrence like a seed forming a tree, a phenomenon that creates life from non life without intent."
Please reduce the text above into no more than ten words, so that you will convey a thought from your mind that iscomprehensible
Addressing everybody.
I am honestly very lost with atheists, they are always into all kinds of evasions from the issue of explaining: how they come to conclude that God does not exist.
I will try a new tack now.
Okay, atheist colleagues here, you are certain that God does not exist, oh I like to become an atheist, please teach me.
I am honestly very lost with atheists, they are always into all kinds of evasions from the issue of explaining: how they come to conclude that God does not exist.
I will try a new tack now.
Okay, atheist colleagues here, you are certain that God does not exist, oh I like to become an atheist, please teach me.
This is for everyone.
Hahaha, I am a God addict, I can't get God out of my heart and mind.
And I can't blame myself, for I am intelligent, rational, and also reasoning endlessly on who or what put me in existence.
Hahaha, I must be nuts also, I am crazy all over with God.
Wait, everyone, I forgot to mention one feature about me, and it is that I am also most meticulously honest.
So, I have to change this statement about myself:
"And I can't blame myself, for I am intelligent, rational, and also reasoning endlessly on who or what put me in existence."
Into this new and improved version:
"And I can't blame myself, for I am honest, intelligent, rational, and also reasoning endlessly on who or what put me in existence."
Hahahahahahahaha . . .
Hahaha, I am a God addict, I can't get God out of my heart and mind.
And I can't blame myself, for I am intelligent, rational, and also reasoning endlessly on who or what put me in existence.
Hahaha, I must be nuts also, I am crazy all over with God.
Wait, everyone, I forgot to mention one feature about me, and it is that I am also most meticulously honest.
So, I have to change this statement about myself:
"And I can't blame myself, for I am intelligent, rational, and also reasoning endlessly on who or what put me in existence."
Into this new and improved version:
"And I can't blame myself, for I am honest, intelligent, rational, and also reasoning endlessly on who or what put me in existence."
Hahahahahahahaha . . .
Tiburon
Well-known member
Why don't you summarise it for me?
I expected something "quite clear". If being married to your wife had been exactly the same as not being married you'd have some questions about the point of marriage wouldn't you?
Did the evolution you were taught include the possibility of people who are part plant?
Or lizards who are part dog?
Or humans who are part cat?
If so then I'd ask for your money back.
Because when you're alive you are interacting and experiencing. When you are dead you are not.
At least as far as we know.
Jesus said that if you believe in him you won't perish.
So you don't think being social has any utility?
We are social because being part of a group enhanced our chances of surviving and reproducing.
Why? Is that worse than believing it's because of some fatal flaw in mankind that an all loving God does nothing about?
Of course they would. They have an impact upon your life so they matter.
Why would you possibly think that without a God nothing matters?
I am living my life.
Unfortunately I have to work to pay for that life.
I want to know the truth I just don't think you have it.
Tiburon
Well-known member
Of course. How have you come to this conclusion?
Tiburon
Well-known member
I think you need a refresher course.
Tiburon
Well-known member
The universes that preceded ours.
Temujin
Well-known member
The actual presence of something in reality. In contrast to the presence of ideas or beliefs about that something.
Why? Are you stupid, or are you just practicing your dilatory nonsense?
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The actual presence of something in reality. In contrast to the presence of ideas or beliefs about that something.
I beseech you, in the bowels of Christ, think it possible that you may be mistaken.
Oliver Cromwell. August 1650
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Hi Timujin, you give the definition of existence as:
"The actual presence of something in reality. In contrast to the presence of ideas or beliefs about that something."
Wrong.
Ideas and beliefs are also instances of existence, they at least exist in our mind, and they control us, and move us to choose what action to perform or to not perform.
Try again.
Yrger, Could you please reduce this to zero words so that you may be comprehensible?
Temujin
Well-known member
Sorry, but you don't get to tell me that my definition is wrong. No definition is right or wrong. They are useful or not useful, widely accepted or unusual. Besides, you misunderstood my point. Perhaps I didn't word it particularly well. Ideas exist, but their content doesn't necessarily do so. For example, the idea of Sauron exists. Most people know exactly what is meant by the word. And yet Sauron himself does not exist.
Perhaps there are many spheres of existence. There is concrete existence such as animals, plants bridges and rocks. There's the existence of phenomena such as weather, travel and speech, which are not concrete. There are things such as alien life or string theory, that may exist or may not, and we may never know. Whatever, I am content with my definition for now, as it matches most cases. If you want to discuss cases ait doesn't match, I can adapt.
Well, well, but they're talking of GOD, don't you see? GOD is the main focus of atheists. After all, GOD is in their mind always they speak or write of Him, dont' you see? or you are blind?
Once you were made and came from the dust of the earth, and by the command of GOD, the Devil only can eat the dust of the earth, thus the Devil feeds not only of you, dust of the earth, but of all evil mankind, understand?
I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. And he laid hold on the red Dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, and cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled.
And his followers were cast down into the lake of fire, the hell's fire.
And his followers were cast down into the lake of fire, the hell's fire.
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