How to know that God exists.

yrger

Member
There are three ways man comes to know the existence of God:

1. By man's intelligence and his rational faculty and his reasoning process.
2. By reading the Bible for Christians and Orthodox Jews, and the Koran for Muslims.
3. By meditation.


I know God exists by the No. 1 way.

Very briefly:
a. Man is a transient entity i.e. he is here today and then after some years of life like as much as 90 years plus, he dies.
b. The transient existence of man inevitably implicates the existence of God as the permanent self-existent creator and operator of man and the universe and everything transient.
d. Therefore God exists.
 
There are three ways man comes to know the existence of God:

1. By man's intelligence and his rational faculty and his reasoning process.
2. By reading the Bible for Christians and Orthodox Jews, and the Koran for Muslims.
3. By meditation.


I know God exists by the No. 1 way.

Very briefly:
a. Man is a transient entity i.e. he is here today and then after some years of life like as much as 90 years plus, he dies.
b. The transient existence of man inevitably implicates the existence of God as the permanent self-existent creator and operator of man and the universe and everything transient.
d. Therefore God exists.
Nature can direct that without the concept of a disembodied sentient and directing will of a God-being. Nature takes care of itself, from itself, without these silly anthropomorphic imaginings, and has far greater explanatory value for the world we experience than your concept of a willful creator god.
 
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There are three ways man comes to know the existence of God:

1. By man's intelligence and his rational faculty and his reasoning process.
2. By reading the Bible for Christians and Orthodox Jews, and the Koran for Muslims.
3. By meditation.


I know God exists by the No. 1 way.

Very briefly:
a. Man is a transient entity i.e. he is here today and then after some years of life like as much as 90 years plus, he dies.
b. The transient existence of man inevitably implicates the existence of God as the permanent self-existent creator and operator of man and the universe and everything transient.
d. Therefore God exists.
Hmm...

While I do think that humans can reason through the evidence given by God (psalm 19, Romans 1), but to actually know him, that requires him to make possible. We just don't have the ability to perceive him apart from Jesus. We read in Isaiah 40:12 that God holds the entirety of the cosmos in the span of his hand.
Furthermore, in Isaiah 57:15 we read that God inhabits eternity and yet he dwells with the humble and contrite.
So, we really need him to make sure we get connected with him.

Jeremiah 24:7 tells us that God will give us a heart to know him.

Hebrews 7:25 tells us that God will save us to the uttermost, everyone who comes to him through Jesus Christ.

The bible is God's Word, and Jesus reiterated that in John 17:17, quoting psalm 119:142.

The Quran contradicts itself in numerous places, and it further contradicts the bible, so it is not Truth. As Jesus warned us,
The thief comes only to steal, kill and destroy.

Meditation upon what? There are all kinds of different things that people meditate on. None of these things bring people one iota closer to God. They cannot because we are spiritually dead because of our sin. It's like sticking a pin in the arm of a dead man. If you stomp, kick, beat them, and the only reaction you will get is Newton's 3rd law-- an equal and opposite response to the magnitude of the input.

The only way to know God, and engage him is on his terms. And those terms are through Jesus Christ.
 
Nature can direct that without the concept of a disembodied sentient and directing will of a God-being. Nature takes care of itself, from itself, without these silly anthropomorphic imaginings, and has far greater explanatory value for the world we experience than your concept of a willful creator god.

Did nature create itself?
 
Hmm...

While I do think that humans can reason through the evidence given by God (psalm 19, Romans 1), but to actually know him, that requires him to make possible. We just don't have the ability to perceive him apart from Jesus. We read in Isaiah 40:12 that God holds the entirety of the cosmos in the span of his hand.
Furthermore, in Isaiah 57:15 we read that God inhabits eternity and yet he dwells with the humble and contrite.
So, we really need him to make sure we get connected with him.

Jeremiah 24:7 tells us that God will give us a heart to know him.

Hebrews 7:25 tells us that God will save us to the uttermost, everyone who comes to him through Jesus Christ.

The bible is God's Word, and Jesus reiterated that in John 17:17, quoting psalm 119:142.

The Quran contradicts itself in numerous places, and it further contradicts the bible, so it is not Truth. As Jesus warned us,
The thief comes only to steal, kill and destroy.

Meditation upon what? There are all kinds of different things that people meditate on. None of these things bring people one iota closer to God. They cannot because we are spiritually dead because of our sin. It's like sticking a pin in the arm of a dead man. If you stomp, kick, beat them, and the only reaction you will get is Newton's 3rd law-- an equal and opposite response to the magnitude of the input.

The only way to know God, and engage him is on his terms. And those terms are through Jesus Christ.

"The bible is God's Word." -SteveB

How would you prove "The bible is God's Word"?
 
"The bible is God's Word." -SteveB

How would you prove "The bible is God's Word"?
Jesus actually does this.

Joh 14:23 WEB Jesus answered him, “If a man loves me, he will keep my word. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.

I'm simply stating what Jesus said.

Joh 17:17 WEB Sanctify them in your truth. Your word is truth.

Psa 119:142 WEB Your righteousness is an everlasting righteousness. Your law is truth.
 
Jesus actually does this.

Joh 14:23 WEB Jesus answered him, “If a man loves me, he will keep my word. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.

I'm simply stating what Jesus said.

Joh 17:17 WEB Sanctify them in your truth. Your word is truth.

Psa 119:142 WEB Your righteousness is an everlasting righteousness. Your law is truth.
Doesn't prove "The bible is God's Word".
 
There are three ways man comes to know the existence of God:

1. By man's intelligence and his rational faculty and his reasoning process.
2. By reading the Bible for Christians and Orthodox Jews, and the Koran for Muslims.
3. By meditation.


I know God exists by the No. 1 way.

Very briefly:
a. Man is a transient entity i.e. he is here today and then after some years of life like as much as 90 years plus, he dies.
b. The transient existence of man inevitably implicates the existence of God as the permanent self-existent creator and operator of man and the universe and everything transient.
d. Therefore God exists.
B. The transient existence of man does not inevitably implicate the existence of God as the permanent self-existent creator and operator of man and the universe and everything transient.

What implies that there is a need of such a thing?
 
There are three ways man comes to know the existence of God:

1. By man's intelligence and his rational faculty and his reasoning process.
2. By reading the Bible for Christians and Orthodox Jews, and the Koran for Muslims.
3. By meditation.


I know God exists by the No. 1 way.

Very briefly:
a. Man is a transient entity i.e. he is here today and then after some years of life like as much as 90 years plus, he dies.
b. The transient existence of man inevitably implicates the existence of God as the permanent self-existent creator and operator of man and the universe and everything transient.
d. Therefore God exists.
Re b. I don't see how something transient implies that it is created by something permanent.
 
Doesn't prove "The bible is God's Word".
Actually, you have to keep the teachings of Jesus and his response will corroborate their reality.

Jesus followers have been learning to do this for millennia and it's worked quite famously.

Joh 14:23 WEB Jesus answered him, “If a man loves me, he will keep my word. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.

so, do what Jesus said and then they will come and make their home with you.

Having been living with my wife for the past 32+ years has made it utterly impossible to mistake her reality.
In like manner, living with Jesus and God in my life for the past 45+ years has made it utterly impossible to mistake their reality.
 
It wasn't created.

Could existence ever not exist?

How would you prove that nature was not created?


Existence is, period.

You and I we are agreed that there is always existence.

Now, would you agree with me that in ultimate summation, there are two components of existence:

a. God Who is the permanent and self-existent creator and operator of man and the universe and everything transient.
b. Everything else that is not God but is the creation of God.

And nature is created by God, because nature has a beginning, that implicates that it is not permanent but transient - in ultimate summation, nature is a creation of God.

It seems to be the case that for you, nature is your God?
 
B. The transient existence of man does not inevitably implicate the existence of God as the permanent self-existent creator and operator of man and the universe and everything transient.

What implies that there is a need of such a thing?

a. In ultimate summation, existence is of two kinds:
b. Permanent self-existent existence i.e. God, and all transient existence which is the creation of God.

In ultimate summation, you and I are transient, so we implicate the existence of the permanent self-existent creator and operator of man and the unverse and everything transient.
 
Re b. I don't see how something transient implies that it is created by something permanent.

In ultimate summation, existence is of two kinds:
a. Permanent self-existent kind which is God.
b. Transient kind which is anything like for example, you and I, we have a beginning and an ending.

So, we implicate the existence of God our creator.
 
There are three ways for man to know God exists:
a. By man's intelligent and rational faculty and reasoning process.
b. By reading the Bible, for Christians and Orthodox Jews, and the Koran for Muslims.
c. By meditation.

I choose a. By man's intelligent and rational faculty and reasoning process.

People who choose b. By reading the Bible, for Christians and Orthodox Jews, and the Koran for Muslims, they know God exists from their belief in their respective God's self-revelation source book.

And people who choose c. By meditation, they come to know God exists because in their mind, God speaks to them.

So, I will focus my attention on people who choose a. By man's intelligent and rational faculty and reasoning process.

That includes people who agree with me that God exists, or deny God exists, each camp on the basis of man's intelligent and rational faculty and reasoning process.
 
How would you prove that nature was not created?
By putting nature under observation and looking for signs of a sentient will directing its processes like you find with other created things like watches, art, and buildings.
Existence is, period.
Boom.... so you have your answer. Existence always was and the nature we experience is a form that developed from it.
You and I we are agreed that there is always existence.

Now, would you agree with me that in ultimate summation, there are two components of existence:

a. God Who is the permanent and self-existent creator and operator of man and the universe and everything transient.
Nope. Just existence, both permanent and transient. No god creator/operator. Those terms imply a sentient mind that directs "things" by acts of will.
b. Everything else that is not God but is the creation of God.
Nope. You are entitled to partition existence into that which seems permanent from that which seems transient even though you will never be able to comprehend anything permanent, but there you go anyway - you start playing make believe with yourself by defining the transcendent permanence of existence as some sentient willful being. Seriously. How does that work? It's transcendent... you couldn't possibly know its nature.

So your a. and b. are dead wrong. They should be exactly the opposite:

a. Existence is permanent and from it all causes and effects of nature such as big bangs, protons, neutrons, atoms, elements, cells, trees, are all generated naturally with no "hand of sentient will" forming them.
b. All else that is not naturally generated from existence is created by physical sentient beings like art, buildings, and anthills - not gods.

And nature is created by God, because nature has a beginning, that implicates that it is not permanent but transient - in ultimate summation, nature is a creation of God.
Nature does not have a beginning
It seems to be the case that for you, nature is your God?
Not the way in which you define God. There is no willful mind "creating" nature. Nature generates naturally, whether transient or permanent. That's why they call it "nature" and not art, or architecture, or machinery.
 
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By putting nature under observation and looking for signs of a sentient will directing its processes like you find with other created things like watches, art, and buildings.

. . . . .


Have you a limited entity like me, succeeded to put nature under your observation, when scientists admit they can only see just a mere 4% of the universe, and the remainder of the universe is all dark to them?

Anyway, you say there is no God, what is your concept of God? Because if you don't have a concept of God, then you don't know what you are denying to exist - that is absurd from your part.
 
b. The transient existence of man inevitably implicates the existence of God as the permanent self-existent creator and operator of man and the universe and everything transient.
I would say knowing that the "creation" couldn't self create its self from nothing....there is the necessity for a being that always existed who is the creator God.
1. By man's intelligence and his rational faculty and his reasoning process.
This is where number 1 comes into play.... rational faculty of man can easily determine the need for a God.
2. By reading the Bible for Christians and Orthodox Jews, and the Koran for Muslims.
Reading the Bible explains partially how God did it.....the Koran is a false book that presents a false God and can't be trusted.
 
Hi everyone, we all humans have got to know the concept of the what I call the generic God, and here is what I propose is the generic God:
"God is the permanent self-existent creator and operator of man and the universe and everything transient."

So, if we anyone whether a believer of God or a denier of God, on whatsoever grounds, if you don't have at least the generic concept of God, then your God is not worth believing in and not denying either, because it is a deficient God.
 
Very briefly:
a. Man is a transient entity i.e. he is here today and then after some years of life like as much as 90 years plus, he dies.
b. The transient existence of man inevitably implicates the existence of God as the permanent self-existent creator and operator of man and the universe and everything transient.
d. Therefore God exists.

I take c.

(Nothing proves any God)
 
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