How to know that God exists.

Whatsisface said:
That the universe is necessary.
Click to expand...
stiggy wiggy said:
For what?
Click to expand...

Whatsisface said:
That the explanation for it is beyond our current understanding.
If time and space began at the BB as many physicists think then the universe has existed for all time, just not eternal time.
Click to expand...
stiggy wiggy said:
For 13.8 billion years, but that doesn't explain where it came from.
Click to expand...
Very interesting. What GOD says in your own language about the dialogue above ? First, the Word is GOD. For your knowledge, GOD is Spirit, i.e. the Word, and the Word -GOD- is from everlasting to everlasting, for better understanding, has not beginning, nor ending. The beginning and the ending is the Son -JESUS-He is the beginning and the ending, the Almighty GOD, understand? See, the worlds were framed by the Word, the Word is GOD, together with the Son, the HEIR of all, all things, the Son was in the creation of all things when He still was in the bossom of the Word-GOD-, understand?

Man that was created in likeness GOD, as a tiny god, was made upright and wise; but the men have sought out many inventions, he thought that could be equal GOD himself in his wisdom what is impossible, this will never happen, quite the opposite, now the created man will be cast into the bottomless pit instead to rise up here where is my Power, in my indescribable environment in the heaven of the heavens.

In the other hand, the Planet Earth has not only 13,8 billions of years as the tiny gods that were created in GOD's image say through their mediocre teories and inventions, this is fake. The globe of the Earth that was created like others Planets, it has countless billions of years beyhond the ridiculus and TINIEST number of 13,8 bilhões of years. This is a mokery of the tiny gods created likeness GOD and in His image. By te way, they all are seen in GODs' eyes as destroying grasshoppers, and a legion of deceivers. From now on they all will PUNISHED with severe and strong PUNISHMENTS and they which are destroying the Earth will be destroyed as they have been preached under GOD's command.

Get ready
 
yrger said:
I take c.

(Nothing proves any God)

------------------

Something is wrong here:

"Very briefly:
a. Man is a transient entity i.e. he is here today and then after some years of life like as much as 90 years plus, he dies.
b. The transient existence of man inevitably implicates the existence of God as the permanent self-existent creator and operator of man and the universe and everything transient.
d. Therefore God exists."


There should be a c.

Correction:
"Very briefly:
a. Man is a transient entity i.e. he is here today and then after some years of life like as much as 90 years plus, he dies.
b. The transient existence of man inevitably implicates the existence of God as the permanent self-existent creator and operator of man and the universe and everything transient.
>>c. So man you and I and all humans we are the evidence for the existence of God.<<
d. Therefore God exists."
Click to expand...
Then I take e) Anything proves that God exist if you define anything existing as God.
 
Last edited:
yrger said:
Hi 5wize, please, pick out one of your points the most important that you want me to answer to, because it is most inconvenient for me to re-act to several points from you.

Suppose you tell me what are the components of nature, for that is your in a way deity, okay?!

Oh no, please no, don't now go into what is a deity and what is supernature as opposed to nature etc etc etc . . .

Okay, tell me what are the components of nature, that's should be quick and easy for you to enumerate.

Best regards.
Click to expand...
Yrger, please don't ask me for my most important point and then proceed to dictate to me what you want me to address. You will only get my most important point here.

Yrger, you use words like create and maintain to describe a characteristic of eternal existence. Those terms imply a sentient will that is aware and possesses mind and some kind of intent to create. My most important point is that you have no warrant to claim that whatever the eternal super-nature is, from which this temporal nature is derived, had any awareness and intended to create this temporal nature by an act of its sentient will any more than an oak tree has awareness and intent to create a sapling oak by dropping an acorn.

Just try and explain were you've proven that the eternal existence from which this temporal existence was derived has a mind with intent.
 
stiggy wiggy said:
Is the universe about 13.8 billion years old? Yes or no. If yes, that means it had a beginning 13.8 billion years ago. If so, what BEGAN it? And whatever began it, what materials did it have to work with? And whatever those materials were, where did they come from? And wherever they came from, how do you figure they were not part of an already existing universe?
Click to expand...
You have a terminology problem between universe and metaverse. Universes are discrete with discrete properties such as time and space and discrete laws of logic. But not all universes need have the same properties.

A metaverse does not have to possess those properties of a specific universe but may possess the characteristics necessary to spawn universes with specific properties such as ours.

Now because the only tools we can employ to discover reality are a product of this universe's characteristics (including our universe bound minds and imaginations), it is unlikely we can use the tools of this experience to detect something outside that toolset, so the metaverse is hypothetical thus far, hiding behind Planck time. However, a natural, but thus far unmeasurable, metaverse is a better model of reality than some God entity when we observe the world we are privy to. A sentient disembodied entity with will and intent is just a bunch of anthropomorphic scraps of this universe, and very, very late developments in that 13.8 billion years of it at that. It's a bad assumption from a dull toolset of an ancient superstitious mind to splash what we are onto some eternal god entity.
 
Last edited:
5wize said:
But not all universes need have the same properties.
Click to expand...

Hilarious. That sentence comes from the same keyboard of the guy who accepts nothing that doesn't "comport with [his] experiences with reality."

Give us all a blow by blow description of your last encounter with a different universe.
 
5wize said:
Because the term implies discrete characteristics that cannot exist outside space and time.
Click to expand...

No you "infer." The "term," or rather word "implies" no such thing. Please provide a definition and we'll see if it says anything about time and space. And while you're looking up the word "entity," also look up "infer" and "imply," so that you'll be able in the future to discern the difference.
 
stiggy wiggy said:
Is the universe about 13.8 billion years old? Yes or no. If yes, that means it had a beginning 13.8 billion years ago.
Click to expand...
Some context. In the end I don't know what's going on. What I'm doing here is talking about possibilities beyond, atheists must think the universe created itself from nothing that we get a lot from Christians.

To answer your questions, the most we can say is that the current state of the universe started 13.8 billion years ago, and that's if it makes sense to talk about a beginning what with time starting at the BB, meaning there was never at time the universe didn't exist. Time is tricky and the way it seems to work is very counter intuitive, relativity giving good examples. It's an example of an aspect of the universe that undermines and goes deeper than our common sense intuitions that "it's either God or a universe self creating from nothing" seems to be based on.
stiggy wiggy said:
If so, what BEGAN it?
Click to expand...
I don't know, if began is on the right path. For example, the first law of thermodynamics states that energy can neither be created nor destroyed, only altered in form. which lends some weight to the idea that "began" may not the right way to think of it.
stiggy wiggy said:
And whatever began it, what materials did it have to work with?
Click to expand...
I don't know.
stiggy wiggy said:
And whatever those materials were, where did they come from? And wherever they came from, how do you figure they were not part of an already existing universe?
Click to expand...
I don't know, but the above excludes the idea that it didn't "come from".
 
stiggy wiggy said:
No you "infer." The "term," or rather word "implies" no such thing. Please provide a definition and we'll see if it says anything about time and space. And while you're looking up the word "entity," also look up "infer" and "imply," so that you'll be able in the future to discern the difference.
Click to expand...
Given the definition of Entity the term imply is correct.

Entity: a thing with distinct and independent existence. Distinctions are only a by-product of space-time.

Looks like you might need to spend a bit more time with your own thoughts here before you reply.
 
FCP said:
Then I take e) Anything proves that God exist if you define anything existing as God.
Click to expand...

What about we start with existence:
a. There is always and everywhere existence.
b. In ultimate summation, existence are of two kinds: permanent and transient.
c. We humans are transient, we live and then we die.
d. Our transiency implicates the existence of the permanent self-existent God creator and operator of man and the universe and everything transient.
e. Therefore God exists.
 
stiggy wiggy said:
Hilarious. That sentence comes from the same keyboard of the guy who accepts nothing that doesn't "comport with [his] experiences with reality."

Give us all a blow by blow description of your last encounter with a different universe.
Click to expand...
It is our experience of this reality, that beyond the creative potential of organisms with brains, that nature has no willful intent behind it. It's an induction from natural observation that works far better, and has more explanatory value, than some god-entity directing and willing it all.
 
5wize said:
Given the definition of Entity the term imply is correct.

Entity: a thing with distinct and independent existence. Distinctions are only a by-product of space-time.
Click to expand...

You flunked. Even the definition you made up says nothing about space or time.
 
5wize said:
It is our experience of this reality, that beyond the creative potential of organisms with brains, that nature has no willful intent behind it. It's an induction from natural observation that works far better, and has more explanatory value, than some god-entity directing and willing it all.
Click to expand...
Lots of blow-hard verbosity there but no description of how your encounter with another universe "comports" with reality.
 
Hi everyone whether you accept God or not, there is existence and it is never ever going to become non-existent.

Just the same, there are two kinds of existence: necessary existence and contingent existence.

Necessary existence is God, God and His existence are synonymous i.e. identical - there is something even God cannot do, extinguish Himself.

Man and everything else, for example, the universe, are contingent upon God's creation.
 
5wize said:
Go back to school, Stiggy. Go for a real degree this time. They'll straighten this all out for you.
Click to expand...

Lame and sophomoric. Get busy explaining how all entities must be confined to time and space. When you fail at that, tell us all about how your experiences with other universes comports with realty.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top