How to know that God exists.

You see, everyone, there is existence, period.

Now you ask Where does existence come from?

It is always present. Outside of existence there is only non-existence i.e. nothingness.

We cannot know anything about nothingness, so we can't talk at all about nothingness - but we do in an ironic and bizarre way know about nothingness, namely, it is the absolute opposite of somethingness.

You do notice that we humans are not always present.

That is because we humans are hard-wired to live for a time only, and then to go into non-existence with our death.
Yes
Ultimately, transient entities like us humans, we implicate the existence of a permanent self-existent creator and operator for us to come into existence i.e. life - although for a period only.
No
And we call that entity God.
You do. You speak for no-one else.
 
I would report that post, but they never do anything about people with whom they agree.
That post has gone. I do report, and I find it works. Some posters get more vacation time than others but posts that make certain points of view look ugly, deranged or abusive, will be taken down.
 
From

Temujin

Well-known member​


yrger said:
No need to talk so much.

You come from your parents and they from their parents, where does this series end - ultimately?
The very first replicating organism on earth, around 3.75 billion years ago.

I beseech you, in the bowels of Christ, think it possible that you may be mistaken.
Oliver Cromwell. August 1650

------------------

Hi Temujin, thanks for posting in my thread.

Now, where does "The very first replicating organism on earth, around 3.75 billion years ago" come from?

Okay, Temujin, you know the drill, let us go to the ulltimate ultimate ultimate origin of everything including me and you, don't play hide and seek, dilly and dally.
 
You're doing it again, no it isn't. You have no idea.
Well, if there's any order and non-randomness to evolution, it's not the evolution I learned about.
Furthermore, unless it's random, it's intelligently directed. And that makes it intelligent design.
So, you keep telling yourself that. I'm quite sure that whatever you believe, that makes it true to you.


If you don't know what I meant when I said "Evolution doesn't say" there is no hope for you.
How would I know what you think?
I'm not a mind reader, and you refuse to explain anything, saying I'm too stupid to get it, so why bother...
That's been your routine for at least 8 years now. Maybe longer.
Oh good grief. I have no words. Is there any point bothering?
Of course you don't.
You don't know how to think beyond your tirades.
 
Well, if there's any order and non-randomness to evolution, it's not the evolution I learned about.
You obviously haven't learnt about evolution at all, unless its the usual BS from creationists. You made that obvious.
Furthermore, unless it's random, it's intelligently directed.
The above shows again you have no idea what evolution is about, and yet you continue to talk about it as if you do.
 
Ultimately, transient entities like us humans, we implicate the existence of a permanent self-existent creator and operator for us to come into existence i.e. life - although for a period only.
How exactly is the existence of a permanent self-existent creator implicated by transient entities like us humans? That is, can you fill in the following?

P1 - Transient humans exist.
P2 - ?
P3 ?
etc.?
Therefore, a permanent self-existent creator exists.
 
You obviously haven't learnt about evolution at all, unless its the usual BS from creationists. You made that obvious.
Nope. Junior high school in 1972.
The teacher was quite clear.

That said, looks like the accepted thinking about it is changing.

The manner in which it's changing appears to be a directed process. At which point it ceases to be evolutionary and takes on an intelligently controlled process.



Mutations occur when DNA is damaged and left unrepaired, creating a new variation. The scientists wanted to know if mutation was purely random or something deeper. What they found was unexpected.

We always thought of mutation as basically random across the genome,” said Grey Monroe, an assistant professor in the UC Davis Department of Plant Sciences who is lead author on the paper. “It turns out that mutation is very non-random and it’s non-random in a way that benefits the plant. It’s a totally new way of thinking about mutation.”

Researchers spent three years sequencing the DNA of hundreds of Arabidopsis thaliana, or thale cress, a small, flowering weed considered the “lab rat among plants” because of its relatively small genome comprising around 120 million base pairs. Humans, by comparison, have roughly 3 billion base pairs.


So, I'm thinking that you're not actually talking about evolution. But something entirely different.




The above shows again you have no idea what evolution is about, and yet you continue to talk about it as if you do.

Mutations occur when DNA is damaged and left unrepaired, creating a new variation. The scientists wanted to know if mutation was purely random or something deeper. What they found was unexpected.

“We always thought of mutation as basically random across the genome,” said Grey Monroe, an assistant professor in the UC Davis Department of Plant Sciences who is lead author on the paper. “It turns out that mutation is very non-random and it’s non-random in a way that benefits the plant. It’s a totally new way of thinking about mutation.”

PhD researchers agree with me....

As recently as January of this year.
 

Gus Bovona Well-known member says:​

yrger said:
Ultimately, transient entities like us humans, we implicate the existence of a permanent self-existent creator and operator for us to come into existence i.e. life - although for a period only.
How exactly is the existence of a permanent self-existent creator implicated by transient entities like us humans? That is, can you fill in the following? -Gus
-----
P1 - Transient humans exist.
P2 - ?
P3 ?
etc.?
Therefore, a permanent self-existent creator exists.
--------------------

Hi Gus, nice to know you, and thanks for your contribution to my thread.


You ask:
"How exactly is the existence of a permanent self-existent creator implicated by transient entities like us humans?"

Simple, like your existence implicates the existence of your papa and mama.

In the ultimate ulltimate ultimate scheme of existence, transient instances of existence like you and me, they come from the ultimate ultimate ultimate cause of all things, which is itself permanent and self-existent.

How do I know that?
Simple: By the principle of causality, i.e. a thing that begins to exist whereas it was not existing before, it comes from an anterior cause.

That is the explanation of implication, meaning all things are folded together by inter-causation, so that like when you see a baby, you by implication conclude that it comes from its papa and mama - then your next step is to locate which set of papa and mama: simple, just hold on to the baby, and sooner than later the right papa and mama will appear as they are looking for their baby.


Anyway, tell me what you know about knowledge by implication.
 
yrger said:
Okay, everynone, ask me more questions about existence and the existence of God.
OK - why does our existence point to that of a conscious, eternal, incorporeal creating/sustaining entity?

"It's obvious" isn't an explanation. -Crackers


Okay, Crackers, you and I are now into your game of what is obvious and what not.

Your gimmick now is to play that you are dumb i.e. not intelligent, not endowed with the rational faculty and not capable of reasoning.

But notwithstanding your limitations, I presume that at least you have the sincere desire to learn how to think correctly.

I will teach you the principle of causality: "Anything not existing previously but now existing is caused by something already in existence."

So, it is obvious that whereas we humans did not exist previously, we now exist: because ultimately an eternal, incorporeal creating/sustaining entity brought about our existence, i.e. caused our coming to existence.

Now, Crackers, you know how obviously we came from God.

Stop playing your dumb gimmick game.
 
Okay, now I will request our atheist colleagues here, to tell everyone, do you atheists have a purpose in life?
 
So, it is obvious that whereas we humans did not exist previously, we now exist: because ultimately an eternal, incorporeal creating/sustaining entity brought about our existence, i.e. caused our coming to existence.
On what foundation do you base this claim?
 
I have. You keep telling me that you don't actually want to know for yourself.
You just keep telling me to do what Jesus said.
I've done that, and nothing. So if that's all the evidence you have I'm afraid I find it lacking.

Look at the rocks and earth beneath your feet.
Look at the plants, animals, and human beings all around you.
Ever notice that for all the talk about evolution and randomness, there are no people who are part plant?
Nor are there lizards who are part dog?
Nor humans who are part cat?
Each of us are after their own kind.
Exactly as the bible says.
Humans experience death, exactly like the bible says.
If death was actually natural, then why would people be bothered by it? Why does the medical profession seek to extend human life?
Why is the post-humanism/trans-humanism/H+ movement so important to people? Everything I've read about it is to extend the human existence beyond the death of the body. The cryogenic industry, trying to extend human life...
What do the rocks and earth, plants and animals prove?
Do you not understand how evolution works?
Maybe you should read up on it before asking asinine questions.
Yes humans experience death. And the Bible says humans experience death. So?
People are bothered by death because they like being alive.
Why are Christians bothered by it if they get to go to heaven?

Why is morality so important to civilization existing?
Because we are a social species. We depend on each other for survival so behaviours that promote that are seen as desirable.

Each of these things and a helluva lot more are evidence that there is something wrong with the human race and the truth of the Creator.
None of these things show that there is something wrong with mankind.
All of these things are what would be expected if there were no God.

He's provided us with the wherewithal to know him.
Jesus was quite clear about this issue.
He said he won't turn away anyone who comes to him.
We further read in Hebrews, God saves to the uttermost ALL who come to him through Jesus Christ.
Like you?
Atheists are notorious for their wild ideas and the complete lack of evidence.
Imagination run wild.
They have far more faith in their beliefs than anyone I've ever met.
What the Bible claims does not comport with my experience of reality.
 
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