How to know that God exists.

From

Temujin

Well-known member​



The very first replicating organism on earth, around 3.75 billion years ago.

I beseech you, in the bowels of Christ, think it possible that you may be mistaken.
Oliver Cromwell. August 1650

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Hi Temujin, thanks for posting in my thread.

Now, where does "The very first replicating organism on earth, around 3.75 billion years ago" come from?

Okay, Temujin, you know the drill, let us go to the ulltimate ultimate ultimate origin of everything including me and you, don't play hide and seek, dilly and dally.
The natural environment. Where did the natural environment come from? Who knows? There are a number of scientific hypotheses.some are more promising than others. None are impossible. None require anything permanent, although many require the existence of an infinite regression of temporary structures. None require God. None are obvious. Take your pick or add your carefully worked out hypothesis to the mix.

P.S. Please use the quote function to reference other posts. This brings up an alert so that the poster is able to respond. Otherwise your posts might go unchallenged, just because the person you are responding to didn't see your post. Not that anyone would do that deliberately. It would be deceitful.
 
This is also addressed to everyone.

What do atheists want to teach mankind?
Atheists are not a homogeneous group. The only thing they have in common is an absence of a belief in God. Individual atheists may want to teach humanity all kinds of things, but most, like most theists, are not interested in preaching to everyone else and are more interested in living their own lives .
 
The natural environment. Where did the natural environment come from? Who knows? There are a number of scientific hypotheses.some are more promising than others. None are impossible. None require anything permanent, although many require the existence of an infinite regression of temporary structures. None require God. None are obvious. Take your pick or add your carefully worked out hypothesis to the mix.

P.S. Please use the quote function to reference other posts. This brings up an alert so that the poster is able to respond. Otherwise your posts might go unchallenged, just because the person you are responding to didn't see your post. Not that anyone would do that deliberately. It would be deceitful.

What you mean, Temujin, is that you don't know where the natural environment you mention comes from.

I know, and I will share with you: the natural environment did not come from itself, but from a permanent self-existing entity, this permanent self-existing entity creates everything that did not create itself.


Okay, Temujin, tell me what else do you not know, what about you don't know where ultimately you come from?

Just ask me, I know: You and I we come from the permanent self-existing entity, this is the source of all non-self-existing whatever things, entities. etc.

And we and everything else are the evidence to the existence of the permanent self-existent entity the source of all non-self-existing things, entities, whatsoever.
 
What you mean, Temujin, is that you don't know where the natural environment you mention comes from.

I know, and I will share with you: the natural environment did not come from itself, but from a permanent self-existing entity, this permanent self-existing entity creates everything that did not create itself.
No, you do not know either. It is kind of you to share but your answer makes no sense to me. I would rather have no answer than the wrong answer. Yours is the wrong answer .
Okay, Temujin, tell me what else do you not know, what about you don't know where ultimately you come from?

Just ask me, I know: You and I we come from the permanent self-existing entity, this is the source of all non-self-existing whatever things, entities. etc.

And we and everything else are the evidence to the existence of the permanent self-existent entity the source of all non-self-existing things, entities, whatsoever.
Sorry, but your beliefs are neither useful nor attractive. You have presented no evidence or logical argument to back them up. I see no reason to accept them. If I want answers to questions ,I tend to go to someone or somewhere qualified to give the answer. That is someone who knows more than I do on the subject. No disrespect, but you are the last person on earth I would ask.
 
What do you mean by nothingness?

yrger said:


This is addressed to everyone.

Did we humans come from nothingness?
What do you mean by nothingness?

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You mean you don't have any inkling at all of what nothingness is?

Okay, I will hazard to teach you how to have at least some inkling of what nothingness should convey to you.

1. You know and I know what is somethingness.
2. We are instances of somehingness.
3. When some sick person annihilates us completely (which of course is impossible) we become nothingness.
4. Everyone and everything don't interact anymore with the nothingness we had turned into

I hope you get to now have some inkling of what is nothingness, although I fear you still can't understand - I am sorry for you.
 
What do you mean by nothingness?

------------------

You mean you don't have any inkling at all of what nothingness is?

Okay, I will hazard to teach you how to have at least some inkling of what nothingness should convey to you.

1. You know and I know what is somethingness.
2. We are instances of somehingness.
3. When some sick person annihilates us completely (which of course is impossible) we become nothingness.
4. Everyone and everything don't interact anymore with the nothingness we had turned into

I hope you get to now have some inkling of what is nothingness, although I fear you still can't understand - I am sorry for you.
This does not answer my question, not least because neither 3 nor 4 make sense in English. If you are going to insult a person's intelligence, it is foolish to do so in a way that displays your own ignorance.

Is empty space, nothing? Clearly not because things exist in that empty space. Are you postulating a hypothetical space where nothing whatsoever exists?

Or are you talking about what happens to our consciousness when our physical brains die?
 
This is addressed to everybody.

Without going to dictionaries, as we all use the word existence and know what we are talking about, tell me what is your definition of the word existence.
 
This is addressed to everybody.

Without going to dictionaries, as we all use the word existence and know what we are talking about, tell me what is your definition of the word existence.
"Without using dictionaries, where the definition of words are recorded, tell us the definition of a word."

What is the point of this silly exercise?
 
This is addressed to everybody.

Without going to dictionaries, as we all use the word existence and know what we are talking about, tell me what is your definition of the word existence.
My reflection on my experience.
 
This is addressed to everybody.

Without going to dictionaries, as we all use the word existence and know what we are talking about, tell me what is your definition of the word existence.
Two senses:

1. all that is, and
2. a property possessed of things that are real.
 
You just keep telling me to do what Jesus said.
I've done that, and nothing. So if that's all the evidence you have I'm afraid I find it lacking.
Jesus is the one who said that.

Joh 14:23 WEB Jesus answered him, “If a man loves me, he will keep my word. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.

The question I then have is-
What, exactly, do you think Jesus said to do?

And as far as lacking goes, what do you think is going to happen?
Being married to my wife for the past 32 years now hasn't been some dramatically explosive experience. But in like manner, it has been quite clear.

Your continuing to use the terms you're using, without having description of what you mean just raises more questions.


What do the rocks and earth, plants and animals prove?
🤣
What!?
Haven't you ever seen the "Made by God" engraved on everything?

Do you not understand how evolution works?
Apparently the atheists here have a different definition than the ones taught in educational institutions.

Maybe you should read up on it before asking asinine questions.
Perhaps you can provide the ones that you have sanctioned, then I can determine if they agree with the ones I learned in the educational institutions I learned from.

Yes humans experience death. And the Bible says humans experience death. So?
People are bothered by death because they like being alive.
Why?
If death is normal, then why would life be so important?
Why are Christians bothered by it if they get to go to heaven?
Because Jesus said that he doesn't want anyone to perish.

Because we are a social species. We depend on each other for survival so behaviours that promote that are seen as desirable.
Why are we social?
Evolution is utilitarian, not social.

None of these things show that there is something wrong with mankind.
Tell that to yourself the next time a major catastrophe kills.

All of these things are what would be expected if there were no God.
No.
These things wouldn't matter if there was no God. They wouldn't matter at all.
Nobody would give a single thought to them.

What the Bible claims does not comport with my experience of reality.
Then why are you here?
Why aren't you out there living your life?
After all, you'll be dead in a few years, you may even get hit by a car crossing the street today. You may have a congenital defect, and drop dead. After all, there're lots of people who die without any warning.
I read on Sunday that Anne Heche died from injuries sustained in her accident a couple weeks ago.
Young, beautiful, in the prime of life.

Seems like if you actually don't want to know the truth, and have no interest whatsoever in meeting your creator, you're spending your life on the wrong side of it.

Your unbelief only excludes you from learning the truth. It's not proof or evidence that YHVH is not real and knowable.

Joh 3:16-21 WEB 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only born Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 17 For God didn’t send his Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world should be saved through him. 18 He who believes in him is not judged. He who doesn’t believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only born Son of God. 19 This is the judgment, that the light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the light, for their works were evil. 20 For everyone who does evil hates the light and doesn’t come to the light, lest his works would be exposed. 21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his works may be revealed, that they have been done in God.”
 

Gus Bovona Well-known member says:​


How exactly is the existence of a permanent self-existent creator implicated by transient entities like us humans? That is, can you fill in the following? -Gus
-----
P1 - Transient humans exist.
P2 - ?
P3 ?
etc.?
Therefore, a permanent self-existent creator exists.
--------------------

Hi Gus, nice to know you, and thanks for your contribution to my thread.


You ask:
"How exactly is the existence of a permanent self-existent creator implicated by transient entities like us humans?"

Simple, like your existence implicates the existence of your papa and mama.

In the ultimate ulltimate ultimate scheme of existence, transient instances of existence like you and me, they come from the ultimate ultimate ultimate cause of all things, which is itself permanent and self-existent.

How do I know that?
Simple: By the principle of causality, i.e. a thing that begins to exist whereas it was not existing before, it comes from an anterior cause.

That is the explanation of implication, meaning all things are folded together by inter-causation, so that like when you see a baby, you by implication conclude that it comes from its papa and mama - then your next step is to locate which set of papa and mama: simple, just hold on to the baby, and sooner than later the right papa and mama will appear as they are looking for their baby.


Anyway, tell me what you know about knowledge by implication.
Sure, you can trace causes backwards to other things that have their own causes. How does that require a "permanent self-existent creator" existing? At the least, you've jumped from a "cause" to a "creator." How do you justify that?
 
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It's not Jesus that's deceiving/deceived you.
JESUS is GOD. GOD the Father said unto the Son -JESUS- : "Thy throne, O GOD, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy Kingdom-Hebrews 1:v.8. And JESUS said: I and my Father are One. And JESUS sent 70 disciples to preach the Gospel of GOD's Kingdom, saying to the people: "The Kingdom of GOD is come nigh unto you." Some time later the 70 disciples returned with great joy, saying, Lord, even the demons are subject unto us through thy name. And GOD JESUS said unto them: I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven. Heaven is not sky or the physical space of Universe, O no, heaven is an celestial environment of GOD where He was before descended to Earth in Person, but the former Cherub -SATAN- still was in heaven, but by the Power of the NAME of JESUS, as He said, Satan as lightning fell down from heaven to the earth. AND NOW, in this seventh and last millennium, Satan will be cast down into the bottomless pit for a thousand years, that he should deceive the nations no more-Revelation 20:v.1-3.

JESUS said: Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions (sons of the Devil), and over all the power of the enemy-Satan-: and nothing shall by any means hurt you. Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits (of demons) are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven. It's that.
 
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