How to share the Gospel with a dead girl

eternomade

Well-known member
Mark 5

35 "While he yet spake, there came from the ruler of the synagogue's house certain which said, Thy daughter is dead: why troublest thou the Master any further?

36 As soon as Jesus heard the word that was spoken, he saith unto the ruler of the synagogue, Be not afraid, only believe.

37 And he suffered no man to follow him, save Peter, and James, and John the brother of James.

38 And he cometh to the house of the ruler of the synagogue, and seeth the tumult, and them that wept and wailed greatly.

39 And when he was come in, he saith unto them, Why make ye this ado, and weep? the damsel is not dead, but sleepeth.

40 And they laughed him to scorn. But when he had put them all out, he taketh the father and the mother of the damsel, and them that were with him, and entereth in where the damsel was lying.

41 And he took the damsel by the hand, and said unto her, Talitha cumi; which is, being interpreted, Damsel, I say unto thee, arise.

42 And straightway the damsel arose, and walked; for she was of the age of twelve years. And they were astonished with a great astonishment.

43 And he charged them straitly that no man should know it; and commanded that something should be given her to eat."


1. The dead girl must first be made alive

2. The girl must eat

Notice, Jesus did not feed the dead girl, then tell her to arise. No, He first made the girl alive, and then commanded she be fed. One cannot feast on Christ, His flesh and His blood, unless they are first made alive.
 
John 6
47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

48 I am that bread of life.

49 Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead.

50 This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.

51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

52 The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat?

53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.

56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.

57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.

58 This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.

59 These things said he in the synagogue, as he taught in Capernaum.

60 Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it?

61 When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you?


How does a dead man eat? First, you must be made alive, then you can eat.
 
Did I miss where Jesus or Mark mentioned the gospel in Mark 5:35-43 ?
Matthew 11
15 He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.

Matthew 13
10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?

11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
 
You are conflating physical and spiritual death.
Ephesians 2
1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)

Colossians 2
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;


Notice the phrase dead in sins, or dead in trespasses always is accompanied by the word quickened which is defined as:

To make one alive together with Christ.

Therefore, spiritually dead and then spiritually alive.
 
Ephesians 2
1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)

Colossians 2
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;


Notice the phrase dead in sins, or dead in trespasses always is accompanied by the word quickened which is defined as:

To make one alive together with Christ.

Therefore, spiritually dead and then spiritually alive.
Spiritual death does not mean inertness

It simply notes separation from Christ

BTW

Colossians 2:13 (KJV 1900) — 13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

seems forgiveness of sin precedes being made alive

and sin is not forgiven until one believes

oh and

Ephesians 2:5–8 (KJV 1900) — 5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) 6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: 7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

being made alive is equated in verse 5 to being saved by grace

which is saved by grace through faith verse 8

Seems the dead are made alive by grace through faith in Christ
 
Ephesians 2
1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)

Colossians 2
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;


Notice the phrase dead in sins, or dead in trespasses always is accompanied by the word quickened which is defined as:

To make one alive together with Christ.

Therefore, spiritually dead and then spiritually alive.
You are now moving goal posts from a physical death to spiritual death.
 
You are now moving goal posts from a physical death to spiritual death.
And this thread has nothing to do with the gospel but the Calvinists presuppositions they read into the Bible . The passage never mentions the gospel even though it’s mentioned over 120 times in the New Testament.
 
You are now moving goal posts from a physical death to spiritual death.
It does not help him

 
Spiritual death does not mean inertness

It simply notes separation from Christ
Nothing but opinion.

BTW

Colossians 2:13 (KJV 1900) — 13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

seems forgiveness of sin precedes being made alive
I agree....Never have disagreed. Forgiveness of sin was accomplished at the cross, 2000 years before I was made alive. Faith beholds this.

and sin is not forgiven until one believes
This contradicts what you said above lol. You said forgiveness comes before being made alive.

oh and

Ephesians 2:5–8 (KJV 1900) — 5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) 6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: 7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

being made alive is equated in verse 5 to being saved by grace

which is saved by grace through faith verse 8

Seems the dead are made alive by grace through faith in Christ
I agree with everything here but the bolded area. That was made up.

Genesis 3
15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

1 Peter 1
23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Galatians 3:16
16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

Christ is the cause of one being born again.
 
1 Corinthians 15
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
 
Nothing but opinion.

Fact shown

Ephesians 2:11–12 (KJV 1900) — 11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; 12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:



I agree....Never have disagreed. Forgiveness of sin was accomplished at the cross, 2000 years before I was made alive. Faith beholds this.

Sin is not forgiven until one repents and believes

and no one justified in unbelief


This contradicts what you said above lol. You said forgiveness comes before being made alive.

There was no contradition

sins are forgiven before one is made alive

and sin is not forgiven until one repents
I agree with everything here but the bolded area. That was made up.

No that was shown by these verses

Colossians 2:13 (KJV 1900) — 13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

seems forgiveness of sin precedes being made alive

and sin is not forgiven until one believes

oh and

Ephesians 2:5–8 (KJV 1900) — 5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) 6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: 7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

being made alive is equated in verse 5 to being saved by grace

which is saved by grace through faith verse 8

Seems the dead are made alive by grace through faith in Christ


Genesis 3
15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

says nothing about the order between faith and regeneration (being made alive)
1 Peter 1
23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Yes when one believes the gospel one is regenerated by Godd

It not hear the gospel and do not believe for that does not profit

the gospel must be mixed with faith

Hebrews 4:2 (KJV) — 2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

ior it does not prosper


Galatians 3:16
16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

Christ is the cause of one being born again.
Of course but you must believe to receive Christs blessings

Romans 5:11 (KJV) — 11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

Romans 5:17 (KJV) — 17 For if by one man’s offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

to receive the gift of righteousness you must believe
 
Fact shown

Ephesians 2:11–12 (KJV 1900) — 11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; 12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:





Sin is not forgiven until one repents and believes

and no one justified in unbelief




There was no contradition

sins are forgiven before one is made alive

and sin is not forgiven until one repents


No that was shown by these verses

Colossians 2:13 (KJV 1900) — 13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

seems forgiveness of sin precedes being made alive

and sin is not forgiven until one believes

oh and

Ephesians 2:5–8 (KJV 1900) — 5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) 6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: 7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

being made alive is equated in verse 5 to being saved by grace

which is saved by grace through faith verse 8

Seems the dead are made alive by grace through faith in Christ




says nothing about the order between faith and regeneration (being made alive)


Yes when one believes the gospel one is regenerated by Godd

It not hear the gospel and do not believe for that does not profit

the gospel must be mixed with faith

Hebrews 4:2 (KJV) — 2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

ior it does not prosper



Of course but you must believe to receive Christs blessings

Romans 5:11 (KJV) — 11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

Romans 5:17 (KJV) — 17 For if by one man’s offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

to receive the gift of righteousness you must believe
James 1
18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.
 
Mark 5

35 "While he yet spake, there came from the ruler of the synagogue's house certain which said, Thy daughter is dead: why troublest thou the Master any further?

36 As soon as Jesus heard the word that was spoken, he saith unto the ruler of the synagogue, Be not afraid, only believe.

37 And he suffered no man to follow him, save Peter, and James, and John the brother of James.

38 And he cometh to the house of the ruler of the synagogue, and seeth the tumult, and them that wept and wailed greatly.

39 And when he was come in, he saith unto them, Why make ye this ado, and weep? the damsel is not dead, but sleepeth.

40 And they laughed him to scorn. But when he had put them all out, he taketh the father and the mother of the damsel, and them that were with him, and entereth in where the damsel was lying.

41 And he took the damsel by the hand, and said unto her, Talitha cumi; which is, being interpreted, Damsel, I say unto thee, arise.

42 And straightway the damsel arose, and walked; for she was of the age of twelve years. And they were astonished with a great astonishment.

43 And he charged them straitly that no man should know it; and commanded that something should be given her to eat."


1. The dead girl must first be made alive

2. The girl must eat

Notice, Jesus did not feed the dead girl, then tell her to arise. No, He first made the girl alive, and then commanded she be fed. One cannot feast on Christ, His flesh and His blood, unless they are first made alive.
But that's not quite the gospel is it? To use this story as an illustration of the gospel, we would need to first suppose that the girl had been told before she died that, if she believed in Jesus, He would come speak to her dead body and command her to live. Then we would need to suppose that indeed she did have faith that Jesus was able and willing to do this, to which He came to her house and caused her to come to life. But the gospel is given to people who aren't physically dead yet.
 
James 1
18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.
and

God use the gospel in the proccess of regeneration

Those who believe he regenerates

those who do not believe he does not

BTW you did not address this

Ephesians 2:11–12 (KJV 1900) — 11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; 12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:





Sin is not forgiven until one repents and believes

and no one justified in unbelief




There was no contradition

sins are forgiven before one is made alive

and sin is not forgiven until one repents


No that was shown by these verses

Colossians 2:13 (KJV 1900) — 13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

seems forgiveness of sin precedes being made alive

and sin is not forgiven until one believes

oh and

Ephesians 2:5–8 (KJV 1900) — 5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) 6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: 7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

being made alive is equated in verse 5 to being saved by grace

which is saved by grace through faith verse 8

Seems the dead are made alive by grace through faith in Christ




says nothing about the order between faith and regeneration (being made alive)


Yes when one believes the gospel one is regenerated by Godd

It not hear the gospel and do not believe for that does not profit

the gospel must be mixed with faith

Hebrews 4:2 (KJV) — 2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

ior it does not prosper



Of course but you must believe to receive Christs blessings

Romans 5:11 (KJV) — 11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

Romans 5:17 (KJV) — 17 For if by one man’s offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

to receive the gift of righteousness you must believe
 
But that's not quite the gospel is it? To use this story as an illustration of the gospel, we would need to first suppose that the girl had been told before she died that, if she believed in Jesus, He would come speak to her dead body and command her to live. Then we would need to suppose that indeed she did have faith that Jesus was able and willing to do this, to which He came to her house and caused her to come to life. But the gospel is given to people who aren't physically dead yet.
Exactly this has nothing to do with the gospel in Mark 5.
 
But that's not quite the gospel is it?
I didn't mean to imply this was the Gospel. This passage shows how one is made alive in regeneration, by Christ.

To use this story as an illustration of the gospel, we would need to first suppose that the girl had been told before she died that, if she believed in Jesus, He would come speak to her dead body and command her to live.
No, this is not the Gospel. The Gospel is not telling someone to believe in Jesus. The Gospel is the person and work of CHRIST for His people.

Then we would need to suppose that indeed she did have faith that Jesus was able and willing to do this, to which He came to her house and caused her to come to life. But the gospel is given to people who aren't physically dead yet.
Yes, I agree. The Gospel cannot be received by a dead person, physically or spiritually. Do you believe there are people who are spiritually dead?


"There's a big difference between mostly dead and all dead. Mostly dead is slightly alive. With all dead, well, with all dead there's usually only one thing you can do."
 
and

God use the gospel in the proccess of regeneration

Those who believe he regenerates

those who do not believe he does not
There is no means with regeneration but God Himself:

John 3
8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.


BTW you did not address this

Ephesians 2:11–12 (KJV 1900) — 11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; 12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
I did not see a question, apologies. What is your question?


Sin is not forgiven until one repents and believes

and no one justified in unbelief
The OT Saints believed, but had to wait to be justified, the NT Saints are justified, but not all yet believe.

Hebrews 9
12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

Romans 3
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation, through faith in his blood to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;


oh and

Ephesians 2:5–8 (KJV 1900) — 5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) 6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: 7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

being made alive is equated in verse 5 to being saved by grace

which is saved by grace through faith verse 8

Seems the dead are made alive by grace through faith in Christ
I don't disagree except the bolded.


says nothing about the order between faith and regeneration (being made alive)


Yes when one believes the gospel one is regenerated by Godd

It not hear the gospel and do not believe for that does not profit

the gospel must be mixed with faith

Hebrews 4:2 (KJV) — 2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

ior it does not prosper
Yes faith was not imputed to them....Or the law of faith....

Romans 4
9 Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.


Of course but you must believe to receive Christs blessings

Romans 5:11 (KJV) — 11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

Romans 5:17 (KJV) — 17 For if by one man’s offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

to receive the gift of righteousness you must believe
Blessings in Christ are effectual upon the death of the testator. To claim that spiritual blessings are not imputed or given until one believes, is to deny Christs work on Calvary.

Hebrews 9
15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.

17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

18 Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood.

19 For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people,

20 Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.

21 Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry.

22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

Hebrews 11
13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:

40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.
 
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