How To Turn Faith Into A Work!

zerinus

Well-known member
What is work...

work
NOUN
works (plural noun)
  • activity involving mental or physical effort done in order to achieve a purpose or result.
  • a task or tasks to be undertaken; something a person or thing has to do.
  • something done or made.
VERB
works (third person present)
  • be engaged in physical or mental activity in order to achieve a purpose or result, especially in one's job; do work.


Fill in the blank with one of the following:

1) Gods own doing = gift
2) Mans own doing = work

For by grace you have been saved through _____.
And this is not your own doing;
it is the gift of God,
not a result of works,
so that no one may boast. - Ephesians 2:8-9



Perceiving Christ Crucified as faith worthy is a gift of God in the same way a blind man seeing a sunset as beautiful is a gift of the Doctor who fixed his eyes!
The reason anyone is in heaven is because they discern Christ Crucified as faith worthy... but discerning Christ as faith worthy is the gift of God! If God justly leaves you in your natural, spiritually dead, state you can, and will, only discern Christ as foolishness and willingly reject him as such!... But if God Graciously chose to bring you out of your spiritual dead state, by regenerating your dead spirit, then you will discern Christ as something other than foolishness! You will discern Christ as faith worthy and willingly receive him as such!
This is how the Bible describes faith as a Gracious gift of God.

Your decision directly depends on your discernment! How you perceive determines how you willingly respond to every decision! If you perceive Christ as faith worthy you will receive him as such and act accordingly! If you perceive Christ as foolishness you will reject him as such and act accordingly!



Verses that show God working faith in us...

but we preach Christ crucified (gospel), a stumbling block to Jews and folly to Gentiles, but to those who are called (regenerated), both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. - 1 Corinthians 1:23-24

“to those who are called” are those who have been called out of there natural, spiritual dead, state into spiritual life and this causes the difference in the discernment of Christ crucified! The “call” produces “faith”!

And because of him you are in Christ Jesus (how?), who (by regeneration) became to us wisdom from God, righteousness and sanctification and redemption, - 1 Corinthians 1:30

“Because of him”... “Christ Jesus”... “became to us” = By the Gracious gift of faith

Paul understood this faith was a gift of God,and not a work of Paul’s own doing, and that’s why he correctly proclaimed...


But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace toward me was not in vain. On the contrary, I worked harder than any of them, though it was not I, but the grace of God that is with me. - 1 Corinthians 15:10

Paul is referring to the Gracious gift of faith that caused him to “work harder than any of them”! “though it was not I” is the confirmation that his faith was the gift of God and not his own doing which he further confirms in...

for it is God who works in you (the gift of faith which results in), both to will and to work for his good pleasure. - Philippians 2:13


Why does faith have to be a gift? And why does God have to be the one to gift it?

Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might understand the things freely given us by God. 1 Corinthians 2:12

The “Spirit who is from God” is necessary in order to “understand the things freely given us by God”!

And we impart this in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual truths to those who are spiritual. 1 Corinthians 2:13

Remember this verse does NOT say “interpreting spiritual truths to those who are” natural! Why?

The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. - 1 Corinthians 2:14
Natural man must be regenerated, made spiritual man first, in order to understand and believe the Gospel

Now, you might ask, what are these "things of the Spirit of God" which people can't grasp without first being made spiritual themselves? The context makes this very clear. Notice the word "folly" or "foolishness" in verse 14. Whatever "the things of the Spirit of God" are, they are folly to the natural man. Chapter 1, verse 18 shows us what this is: "The word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God." The same thing in verses 23–24: "We preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and folly to Gentiles, but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God."

In other words, what the natural man can't understand is the heart of the Christian message—the word of the cross - without first being regenerated!



Again, Fill in the blank with one of the following:
1) Gods own doing = gift
2) Mans own doing = work

For by grace you have been saved through _____.
And this is not your own doing;
it is the gift of God,
not a result of works,
so that no one may boast. - Ephesians 2:8-9


fixing our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God. $ Hebrews 12:2
Too long, too convoluted, too confusing. If a gospel doctrine needs to be made that convoluted and confusing, it is a sure sign it is not true. The Bible is never like that. The biblical message is clear and simple:

Matthew 7:

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Luke 6:

46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

James 1:

22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.


When God has made it so clear and simple, what makes you think anyone has any need for your convolutios?
 

armylngst

Active member
I don’t believe it’s “another way”! I believe we are on the same page.
Faith is not a work... it’s a gift!

I agree! A reaction is not a choice... it just happens by nature!


Good point! Not a “choice”, just a natural “reaction”!

Exactly! “Shocked” is not a choice! “Shocked surprise” is a natural reaction... not a choice!
You don’t “choose” fear as an appropriate reaction when you run into a bear in the woods! It’s a natural reaction not a choice.

Great point... but the “all of a sudden” part is what’s in question!

but we preach Christ crucified (gospel), a stumbling block to Jews and folly to Gentiles, but to those who are (“all of a sudden”) called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. - 1 Corinthians 1:23-24

“to those who are called” are those who have been called out of there natural, spiritual dead, state into spiritual life and this causes the difference in the discernment of Christ crucified! The “call” produces “faith”!


Another good point. When this “foolish” idea “all of a sudden” becomes something other than “foolishness” it is the evidence of regeneration!


13 Now when Jesus came into the district of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, "Who do people say that the Son of Man is?"
14 And they said, "
Some say John the Baptist, others say Elijah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets."
(Unable to rightly discern who Christ is)

15 He said to them, "But who do you say that I am?"
16 Simon Peter replied, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."

(Are able to rightly discern who Christ is)

(Was it flesh and blood that made the difference or was it a gift of God that made the difference?)

17 And Jesus answered him, "Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven. - Matthew 16:13-17

Correct discernment of who Christ is is a gift of God!
Not a work of man!


Yes... and why is this message no longer foolishness to you!

The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. - 1 Corinthians 2:14

Natural man must be regenerated, made spiritual man first, in order to understand and believe the Gospel

Now, you might ask, what are these "things of the Spirit of God" which people can't grasp without first being made spiritual themselves? The context makes this very clear. Notice the word "folly" or "foolishness" in verse 14. Whatever "the things of the Spirit of God" are, they are folly to the natural man. Chapter 1, verse 18 shows us what this is: "The word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God." The same thing in verses 23–24: "We preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and folly to Gentiles, but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God."

This is the natural reaction of those who “all of a sudden” no longer discern Christ Crucified as foolishness. Regeneration changes your perception of Christ!

How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching? - Romans 10:14


It’s a natural reaction due to the “gift” of God! Eph 2:8-9

100%

No it’s not a “choice” it is a natural reaction due to your new nature! It’s a gift!

Your “reaction” directly depends on your discernment! How you perceive determines how you willingly respond to every decision! If you perceive Christ as faith worthy you will receive him as such and act accordingly! If you perceive Christ as foolishness you will reject him as such and act accordingly!

Faith is the “reaction” of those who are regenerate!
Foolishness is the reaction of those who are not regenerate!


but we preach Christ crucified (gospel), a stumbling block to Jews and folly to Gentiles, but to those who are called (regenerated), both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. - 1 Corinthians 1:23-24

“to those who are called” are those who have been called out of there natural, spiritual dead, state into spiritual life and this causes the difference in the discernment of Christ crucified! The “call” produces “faith”!

I agree! It was the natural reaction of the gift of God!


For by grace you have been saved through Gods own doing.
And this is not your own doing;
it is the gift of God,
not a result of works,
so that no one may boast. - Ephesians 2:8-9
Full agreement, just remember that Ephesians 2:8-9 does not say that faith is a gift of God, it is the whole of salvation that is a gift of God, and that through faith. (The greek grammar did not translate over well to English grammar.) It is neither for, nor against Calvinism.

I had a discussion with a philosophy teacher about whether Christianity is logical or not. He basically considered it an unfair discussion, since I already basically knew what the whole next lesson was going to be, knowing the passage pretty well. The answer is it is both illogical and logical, for the reason that it is foolishness to those who are not saved, because they cannot follow the rationality of it. To the Christian, it is logical, and one can rationally line up all the points to show how it is contiguous, and sound. The next lesson was fun trying to point out why one can't say it is illogical and leave it at that. (This was a Christian school). Brings back memories of some discussions I had. It really is difficult to explain something that is actually beyond our ability to explain, but at least we can reason together a pretty sound argument.
 

armylngst

Active member
Too long, too convoluted, too confusing. If a gospel doctrine needs to be made that convoluted and confusing, it is a sure sign it is not true. The Bible is never like that. The biblical message is clear and simple:

Matthew 7:

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Luke 6:

46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

James 1:

22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.


When God has made it so clear and simple, what makes you think anyone has any need for your convolutios?
Ah so you believe in a works based salvation. You do understand what Jesus is saying is that it is fine if you can talk the talk, but do you walk the walk. You say you follow, but if you are chasing after the world, and not doing the will of the Father, you are not saved in the situation of Matthew 7:21. The thing that is at question is what is faith? A Calvinist believes regeneration precedes faith, and that faith is a reaction that comes with the regeneration, and the hearing of the gospel, stirred within by the Holy Spirit. The reaction to the message becomes the faith through which (by which) salvation becomes theirs. Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is a gift of God, not by works, lest any man shouldst boast. The thing that is a gift of God is better read, and that [salvation] not of yourselves, it is a gift of God, not by works...

You made it complex as well. "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved" seems much simpler. The question is, is that belief a work of ours, or a reaction to understanding our situation, our place within the wrath of an angry God, as reflected upon the grace and love of a God who grants salvation to the one who believes in His Son?
 
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