How we can be certain Psalm 69 is a Messianic Psalm & Psalm 69:8 is a Messianic verse

BornAgainRN

Active member
"I have become estranged from My brothers, And an alien to My mother's sons." (Psalm 69:8)

We can be certain this is a Messianic Psalm fulfilled by Jesus, because Psalm 69:9 ("For zeal for Your house has consumed me"), which was fulfilled by Jesus in John 2:17, begins with the word "For." This is a conjunction that means "therefore, because, or since," which means it is a continuation of v.8. Remember, there were no chapters or verses when the Bible was written. So, the word "for" indicates that v.8 connects to v.9. So, the same Messiah who experienced "zeal for You house" also had "brothers" who were "My mother's sons." His "mother & brothers" are literal, just as Deuteronomy 13:6 is literal ("If your brother, your mother's son"). The "folly" was not Jesus' but rather He took on the folly of others. The "reproach" that Jesus bore in v.7 are "the reproaches of those who reproach You have fallen on me...It became my reproach" (v.9-10). His reproach was when God made Christ who knew no sin, to be sin for us (2 Corinthians 5:21), and the estrangement from His brothers were the result of them not believing in Him (John 7:3-5) & dishonoring Him (Mark 6:3-4).

Lastly, Psalm 69 is a Messianic Psalm, because multiple verses in this Psalm were fulfilled by Jesus in the NT: Psalm 69:4 -> John 15:25 / Psalm 69:9 -> John 2:17; Romans 15:3 / Psalm 69:22-23 -> Romans 11:9-10 / Psalm 69:25 -> Acts 1:20.

Psalm 69:8 demonstrates that Jesus had younger half-siblings, who were "My mother's sons."
 
"My Mother's son's" in this context are the Jews. The sons of Israel and Abraham. "He came unto his own, and his own received him not."
 
"My Mother's son's" in this context are the Jews. The sons of Israel and Abraham. "He came unto his own, and his own received him not."
You need to demonstrate that Mary is the mother of Israel/Jews and not the daughter of Israel/Jews.
Psalm 69:8 I am become a stranger unto my brethren, and an alien unto my mother's children.
 
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You need to demonstrate that Mary is the mother of Israel and not the daughter of Israel.
Psalm 69:8 I am become a stranger unto my brethren, and an alien unto my mother's children.
Your mistake is that you are taking the passage in a literal sense. The Jews are the sons of Israel. Christ can unto His own and they rejected HIm.
 
Ps.69:8
I am become a stranger unto my brethren,
and an alien unto my mother's children.
For the zeal of thine house hath eaten me up;
and the reproaches of them that reproached thee are fallen upon me.

Jn.2:18
And his disciples remembered that it was written,
The zeal of thine house hath eaten me up.


Your mistake is that you are taking the passage in a literal sense. The Jews are the sons of Israel. Christ can unto His own and they rejected HIm.
Jn.2:13
And the Jews' passover was at hand,
and Jesus went up to Jerusalem.

14 And found in the temple those that sold oxen and sheep and doves,
and the changers of money sitting:

15 And when he had made a scourge of small cords,
he drove them all out of the temple,
and the sheep, and the oxen;
and poured out the changers' money, and overthrew the tables;

16 And said unto them that sold doves,
Take these things hence;
make not my Father's house an house of merchandise.


Well. MF;
should we also take that as Litteral of just some ????????

Amazing the twisting the RCC'ers will go to defend their "Queen of Heaven"
 
Your mistake is that you are taking the passage in a literal sense. The Jews are the sons of Israel. Christ can unto His own and they rejected HIm.
MF says
"The Jews are the sons of Israel. Christ can unto His own and they rejected HIm."
Ps.69:8
8 I am become a stranger unto my brethren,

#2:
and an alien unto my mother's children.

Mary and his Brothers and sisters, his mother's children
are not brethren,
they are of his own Household
Blood Kin
 
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"My Mother's son's" in this context are the Jews. The sons of Israel and Abraham. "He came unto his own, and his own received him not."
Except that Deuteronomy 13:6 demonstrates that "your brother, your mother's son" refers to the biological brother of the same mother. "Your mother's son" means biological brother. Your allegorical belief conflicts with Scripture. Plus, it completely ignores everything else in my OP, such as vv. 8 & 9 being connected as a single though, because of the conjunction "for" that begins v.9, which is about Jesus. So, "My brothers, my mother's sons" refers to the mother & brothers of the same Messiah in v.9, again, which is supported by Deuteronomy 13:6.
 
"I have become estranged from My brothers, And an alien to My mother's sons." (Psalm 69:8)

We can be certain this is a Messianic Psalm fulfilled by Jesus, because Psalm 69:9 ("For zeal for Your house has consumed me"), which was fulfilled by Jesus in John 2:17, begins with the word "For." This is a conjunction that means "therefore, because, or since," which means it is a continuation of v.8. Remember, there were no chapters or verses when the Bible was written. So, the word "for" indicates that v.8 connects to v.9. So, the same Messiah who experienced "zeal for You house" also had "brothers" who were "My mother's sons." His "mother & brothers" are literal, just as Deuteronomy 13:6 is literal ("If your brother, your mother's son"). The "folly" was not Jesus' but rather He took on the folly of others. The "reproach" that Jesus bore in v.7 are "the reproaches of those who reproach You have fallen on me...It became my reproach" (v.9-10). His reproach was when God made Christ who knew no sin, to be sin for us (2 Corinthians 5:21), and the estrangement from His brothers were the result of them not believing in Him (John 7:3-5) & dishonoring Him (Mark 6:3-4).

Lastly, Psalm 69 is a Messianic Psalm, because multiple verses in this Psalm were fulfilled by Jesus in the NT: Psalm 69:4 -> John 15:25 / Psalm 69:9 -> John 2:17; Romans 15:3 / Psalm 69:22-23 -> Romans 11:9-10 / Psalm 69:25 -> Acts 1:20.

Psalm 69:8 demonstrates that Jesus had younger half-siblings, who were "My mother's sons."
St. Augustine called them "sons of the Synagogue."
 
Your mistake is that you are taking the passage in a literal sense. The Jews are the sons of Israel. Christ can unto His own and they rejected HIm.
The same could be asked, since Psalm 69:9 begins with a conjunction ("for"), which means it is connecting v.8 to v.9, and v.9 is meant to be taken literally, your mistake is that you are not taking v.8 literally. Compare the wording of v.8 to Deuteronomy 13:6.
 
MF says
"The Jews are the sons of Israel. Christ can unto His own and they rejected HIm."
Ps.69:8
8 I am become a stranger unto my brethren,

#2:
and an alien unto my mother's children.

Mary and his Brothers and sisters, his mother's children
are not brethren,
they are of his own Household
Blood Kin
Plus, many, many Jews accepted and believed in Him as the Messiah, during His earthly ministry. It is the religious leaders who mostly rejected Jesus, except for Nicodemus and Joseph of Arimathea.
 
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