How would you know if you were brain washed? Especially if you were brain washed from birth to now?

Temujin

Well-known member
How would you know if you were brain washed? Especially if you were brain washed from birth to now?
What do you mean by brain washed? Since your brain at birth is extremely plastic and develops in response to stimuli you experience, you could say that every single one of us is brainwashed from birth. We all think the way we do because of the experiences we have had.
 

rossum

Active member
How would you know if you were brain washed? Especially if you were brain washed from birth to now?
There are a lot of people you could ask. Hindus with Hindu parents; Muslims with Muslim parents; Christians with Christian parents; atheists with atheist parents.

If someone was brainwashed from birth then their parents were most likely to be the ones starting the process.
 

Whateverman

Well-known member
How would you know if you were brain washed? Especially if you were brain washed from birth to now?
I'd discover information that contradicted the things I was brain-washed about. After a while, I'd recognize that I was wrong about what I thought.
 

vibise

Active member
I'd discover information that contradicted the things I was brain-washed about. After a while, I'd recognize that I was wrong about what I thought.
How many creationists change their minds once they are presented with the scientific data supporting evolution?

As many people have pointed out, reality-based data will not change an opinion that is not itself fact-based.
 

Whateverman

Well-known member
How many creationists change their minds once they are presented with the scientific data supporting evolution?
I submit to you that the answer is "a good number of them".

The trick to creationism is to shelter the believer from information which might lead to doubt; surround the person with positive reinforcement whenever the dogma is maintained. JJ's question makes the solution simple, in that it leaves the question up to the seeker: how I would find out is to be inquisitive, and not fall-back on comfortable ideas that keep me from being inquisitive. I'd go looking around, to make sure that what I thought was correct.

That is (fundamentalist) creationist kryptonite.
 
What do you mean by brain washed? Since your brain at birth is extremely plastic and develops in response to stimuli you experience, you could say that every single one of us is brainwashed from birth. We all think the way we do because of the experiences we have had.
I mean to the point where you will not accept anything else other than what you know (been brainwashed to think and believe) almost no matter what evidence you are given. To the point that maybe the threat of death won't convince you alone. To the point that you may have to be brainwashed again to change the previous brain washing. And that could take many years. And also to the point that you would have to self discover it and no one could tell you because you wouldn't accept it. ("You" in general not "you" in particular)
 
I'd discover information that contradicted the things I was brain-washed about. After a while, I'd recognize that I was wrong about what I thought.
What if you were brainwashed into thinking that you shouldn't do any research or you shouldn't listen(as in consider) to anything else?
 

Whateverman

Well-known member
What if you were brainwashed into thinking that you shouldn't do any research or you shouldn't listen(as in consider) to anything else?
That'd be impossible. If a person never does any research, they can't know anything; they can't learn from their environment; they can't differentiate between what's good for them, and what's bad.

Everyone in the history of the human race has done research.

Your question asks what *I* can do to know if I've been brain-washed - and that is predicated on me wanting to know it. If I want to know if I've been brainwashed, I will sincerely investigate the possibility. If I'm sincerely investigating the possibility of whether I'm brainwashed, then any-and-all information I come across can potentially help me find an answer to your question.

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And that's the real problem, JJ: whether I sincerely want knowledge/understanding.

That's how people stay brainwashed: they're not interested in finding out if they've been misled.
 

Whateverman

Well-known member
You're trying to ask "What can you do to know whether you're brainwashed, if you're brainwashed into thinking there's no possibility of you being brainwashed?"

With all due respect, it's kind of a stupid question. What can anyone do to Discover <X> if they've been programmed to Not Discover <X>? The answer is nothing - unless they're interested in finding out. If they've been programmed to not be interested, then the question is dumb.

Brainwashing involves beliefs about a specific thing, like an ideology, or the values of a specific person/entity. If I've been brainwashed into thinking Kim Il Sung is a god, I will eventually come across information that calls that belief into question. Why would a god need to eat or go to the bathroom? How can a god need to go to the hospital? Why would a god allow himself to be threatened by the leader of a different country? There's all kinds of information available that calls Kim Il Sung's godhood into question.

The only way stay brainwashed is to avoid information which reveals the brainwashing - and that's not necessarily easy to do.
 
You're trying to ask "What can you do to know whether you're brainwashed, if you're brainwashed into thinking there's no possibility of you being brainwashed?"

With all due respect, it's kind of a stupid question. What can anyone do to Discover <X> if they've been programmed to Not Discover <X>? The answer is nothing - unless they're interested in finding out. If they've been programmed to not be interested, then the question is dumb.

Brainwashing involves beliefs about a specific thing, like an ideology, or the values of a specific person/entity. If I've been brainwashed into thinking Kim Il Sung is a god, I will eventually come across information that calls that belief into question. Why would a god need to eat or go to the bathroom? How can a god need to go to the hospital? Why would a god allow himself to be threatened by the leader of a different country? There's all kinds of information available that calls Kim Il Sung's godhood into question.

The only way stay brainwashed is to avoid information which reveals the brainwashing - and that's not necessarily easy to do.
That probably is a better question to ask....


There are cults that are brainwashed, are brainwashed into only accepting the cults justification for things and are also brainwashed into not considering or researching other information. Whenever something comes up that questions what the cult says, what they believe or think, the cult provides information to further brainwash them. And it seems since they are so far gone, it works.

Some do come out of it but usually after a long time of doubt and people outside the cult presenting them information over time. Some cults try to play defense by telling the people that if they get information contrary to what they say then that is a threat. So the people are brainwashed into rejecting the source and the source will not have access to them again whether the source is a another person or not.

This happens with some Jehovah's Witnesses and other cults. With Jehovah's Witnesses, the one thing that I seen that appears to have convinced them the most in history of the Jehovah's Witnesses is when the predictions of the end of the world didn't become true im the years that they predicted in the past but the Jehovah's Witnesses leadership have learned from that and now they tell them something that covers that.

There are exceptions to what seems to happen with some cult brainwashing.
 

Whateverman

Well-known member
That probably is a better question to ask....


There are cults that are brainwashed, are brainwashed into only accepting the cults justification for things and are also brainwashed into not considering or researching other information. Whenever something comes up that questions what the cult says, what they believe or think, the cult provides information to further brainwash them. And it seems since they are so far gone, it works.
You have to start being specific, JJ. Give us specific examples of who these cults are, evidence that they only accept their cult's justifications, and have brainwashed their members into not researching other information.

I suspect that you can't show that any cults like this exist. This is why you rely on vague accusations that can't be researched. Maybe you're not doing this on purpose, but I guarantee that as soon as you start naming names, we can easily point out where your accusations are wrong/faulty/flawed.
 
You have to start being specific, JJ. Give us specific examples of who these cults are, evidence that they only accept their cult's justifications, and have brainwashed their members into not researching other information.

I suspect that you can't show that any cults like this exist. This is why you rely on vague accusations that can't be researched. Maybe you're not doing this on purpose, but I guarantee that as soon as you start naming names, we can easily point out where your accusations are wrong/faulty/flawed.
Research Jehovah's Witnesses by listening to ex Jehovah's Witnesses. I've been one and know people still in it. There are other cults too. Also research Jehovah's Witnesses and brainwashing tactics. I think i remember a psychologist talking about the tactics they use. Unfortunately I don't keep track of my research because it is normally for me but I think I will start trying to.

I got out because I happened to be a more opened minded person and I am naturally against the status quo and I question almost everything. Plus I wasn't fully brainwashed because I didn't listen as much verses others I know.
 
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vibise

Active member
That'd be impossible. If a person never does any research, they can't know anything; they can't learn from their environment; they can't differentiate between what's good for them, and what's bad.

Everyone in the history of the human race has done research.


Your question asks what *I* can do to know if I've been brain-washed - and that is predicated on me wanting to know it. If I want to know if I've been brainwashed, I will sincerely investigate the possibility. If I'm sincerely investigating the possibility of whether I'm brainwashed, then any-and-all information I come across can potentially help me find an answer to your question.

---

And that's the real problem, JJ: whether I sincerely want knowledge/understanding.

That's how people stay brainwashed: they're not interested in finding out if they've been misled.
Some people have a different definition of research.

I recently ran across a poster who said they would consider getting a covid vaccine if Newsmax said it was OK!!!

There are legitimate places to go for medical advice, and Newsmax is not one of those places.
 

vibise

Active member
I submit to you that the answer is "a good number of them".

The trick to creationism is to shelter the believer from information which might lead to doubt; surround the person with positive reinforcement whenever the dogma is maintained. JJ's question makes the solution simple, in that it leaves the question up to the seeker: how I would find out is to be inquisitive, and not fall-back on comfortable ideas that keep me from being inquisitive. I'd go looking around, to make sure that what I thought was correct.

That is (fundamentalist) creationist kryptonite.
I have spent many years arguing with creationists, and find very very few of them willing to accept scientific data as legitimate information.

Some people are not inquisitive, and regard questioning as bad as they refuse to consider their own viewpoint as open to discussion. Some people actually push school boards to either prevent the teaching of evolution or treat creationism as a legitimate scientific alternative.

When you are faced with an unmovable viewpoint that is imperious to facts, then discussion is not possible.
 

vibise

Active member
Research Jehovah's Witnesses by listening to ex Jehovah's Witnesses. I've been one and know people still in it. There are other cults too. Also research Jehovah's Witnesses and brainwashing tactics. I think i remember a psychologist talking about the tactics they use. Unfortunately I don't keep track of my research because it is normally for me but I think I will start trying to.

I got out because I happened to be a more opened minded person and I am naturally against the status quo and I question almost everything. Plus I wasn't fully brainwashed because I didn't listen as much verses others I know.
Were you raised by your parents to be a Jehovah's Witness? Or did you join as an adult?
 

Whateverman

Well-known member
I'd discover information that contradicted the things I was brain-washed about. After a while, I'd recognize that I was wrong about what I thought.
What if you were brainwashed into thinking that you shouldn't do any research or you shouldn't listen(as in consider) to anything else?
I have to wonder why you questioned me on this. You've admitted that you did exactly as I described: you escaped JW by questioning the information you were taught, because you were interested in knowing whether you were being taught the correct things.

People who remain Jehova's Witnesses do so for many reasons. Some of those reasons may indeed involve brainwashing, while others may be more rational. I'm not going to judge JW here (though I admit you're not the only person I've seen referring to them as cult-like). It's possible to "undo" the kind of mental conditioning you're referring to - just as it's possible to recognize that you (or anyone else) believed something but were wrong.

Only when you refuse to be exposed to certain kinds of information do you run the risk of having been brainwashed without your knowledge of it.
 
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