Steven Avery
Well-known member
Hundredfold Martyrs
Sermon the Hundredfold, Sixty-fold, and Thirty-fold
Sermo de centesima, sexagesima, tricesima
Heavenly Witnesses
1 John 5:7 (AV)
For there are three that bear record in heaven,
the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost:
and these three are one.
A powerful evidence, corroboration of the Ante-Nicene Old Latin of Tertullian in Against Praxeas and the two references from Cyprian, Ad Jubaianus and Unity of the Church, in their usage of the heavenly witnesses.
This works with the material in The Witness of God is Greater (TWOGIG) and my value-added study and sharing as well.
History in the Bible Debate
This fine heavenly witnesses reference first became known to the public in 1914 so it is not in the real heavenly witnesses debate season of 1690 to 1890. The most public spot where this was referenced was the section by Raymond Brown in the Epistles of John, who sought to give it a later date spin, against most of the scholarship. Michael Maynard, (1955-2014), the pioneer in modern heavenly witnesses defense studies, did not have this reference. And Grantley Robert McDonald missed the reference in Raising the Ghost of Arius. Yet this has even been in the Critical Text apparatus as (Ps-Cyprian.) This can puzzle readers since the Rebaptism Treatise is also a Ps-Cyprian. TWOGIG helped bring the material together.
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Also this clear reference to the heavenly witnesses verse does not fit the absurd narrative that virtually everybody, including Tertullian and Cyprian, were only allegorizing the earthly witnesses. And it does not fit the alternative narrative that Tertullian and Cyprian were stumbling around and giving nascent style to the eventual verse formation
.
In fact, the evidence is overwhelming that the full heavenly witnesses verse was in Latin Bibles in the 200s. Especially when you consider Old Latin manuscripts like the Freisinger Fragment and the Speculum, on top of all the ECW (early church writing) referencing, and Jerome's clear acknowledgment of our majestic verse and then the amazing usage at the Council of Carthage of AD 484. The ECW referencing includes 15 or so full verse uses in the early centuries, supporting long-term OId Latin Bible acceptance of our verse.
If the contras wanted to be honest, they should fall back to a position of claiming an early Old Latin interpolation. This would be wrong, e.g. the grammatical and stylistic and "internal" evidences essentially destroy that position, but at least the Old Latin interpolation try would have a gram of scholastic honesty. They would have to give up the errant idea that this was an orthodox interpolation against the Arians, which is very popular in contra-land.
Also there is the simple fact that Tertullian and Cyprian were strong in Greek as well as Latin, and Tertullian is thought to often translate directly from his Greek Bible into his Latin writing. Simply put, the Latin of the heavenly witnesses came from the Greek.
While the date assigned to Hundredfold Martyrs has varied from the time of Justin Martyr in the 2nd century to the 4th century, there is strong scholarship that makes it no later than the era around Cyprian. This work has an unusual angelomorphic Christology that fits much better in the early centuries. And is highly unlikely for a fourth century writing. Generally Hundredfold Martyrs is considered as Christian in origin, although a couple of scholars have looked at it as in the gnostic fringe.
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While the Critical Text apparatus for the heavenly witnesses is a total disaster in terms of references from the early church writers, they have in fact included (Ps-Cyprian) on the positive side!
Walter Thiele (1923-2016), a leading Old Latin expert who "wrote the book" on the Old Latin of the Johannine Epistles, calls this an allusion to the verse, without any reservations. This is in Beobachtungen zum Comma Johanneum (1959), p. 69.
=============
There is a fuller textual section and some commentary in The Witness of God is Greater.
Your thoughts welcome.
=============
Steven Avery
Dutchess County, NY USA
Sermon the Hundredfold, Sixty-fold, and Thirty-fold
Sermo de centesima, sexagesima, tricesima
Heavenly Witnesses
1 John 5:7 (AV)
For there are three that bear record in heaven,
the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost:
and these three are one.
A powerful evidence, corroboration of the Ante-Nicene Old Latin of Tertullian in Against Praxeas and the two references from Cyprian, Ad Jubaianus and Unity of the Church, in their usage of the heavenly witnesses.
This works with the material in The Witness of God is Greater (TWOGIG) and my value-added study and sharing as well.
History in the Bible Debate
This fine heavenly witnesses reference first became known to the public in 1914 so it is not in the real heavenly witnesses debate season of 1690 to 1890. The most public spot where this was referenced was the section by Raymond Brown in the Epistles of John, who sought to give it a later date spin, against most of the scholarship. Michael Maynard, (1955-2014), the pioneer in modern heavenly witnesses defense studies, did not have this reference. And Grantley Robert McDonald missed the reference in Raising the Ghost of Arius. Yet this has even been in the Critical Text apparatus as (Ps-Cyprian.) This can puzzle readers since the Rebaptism Treatise is also a Ps-Cyprian. TWOGIG helped bring the material together.
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Hundredfold Martyrs
"the illustrious three, the Father and Son and Holy Spirit ... spiritually bound by the Three Witnesses ... by the mouth of three witnesses it will be proved, that is: by the mouth of the Father and Son and Holy Spirit it will be confessed"
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Also this clear reference to the heavenly witnesses verse does not fit the absurd narrative that virtually everybody, including Tertullian and Cyprian, were only allegorizing the earthly witnesses. And it does not fit the alternative narrative that Tertullian and Cyprian were stumbling around and giving nascent style to the eventual verse formation
In fact, the evidence is overwhelming that the full heavenly witnesses verse was in Latin Bibles in the 200s. Especially when you consider Old Latin manuscripts like the Freisinger Fragment and the Speculum, on top of all the ECW (early church writing) referencing, and Jerome's clear acknowledgment of our majestic verse and then the amazing usage at the Council of Carthage of AD 484. The ECW referencing includes 15 or so full verse uses in the early centuries, supporting long-term OId Latin Bible acceptance of our verse.
If the contras wanted to be honest, they should fall back to a position of claiming an early Old Latin interpolation. This would be wrong, e.g. the grammatical and stylistic and "internal" evidences essentially destroy that position, but at least the Old Latin interpolation try would have a gram of scholastic honesty. They would have to give up the errant idea that this was an orthodox interpolation against the Arians, which is very popular in contra-land.
Also there is the simple fact that Tertullian and Cyprian were strong in Greek as well as Latin, and Tertullian is thought to often translate directly from his Greek Bible into his Latin writing. Simply put, the Latin of the heavenly witnesses came from the Greek.
While the date assigned to Hundredfold Martyrs has varied from the time of Justin Martyr in the 2nd century to the 4th century, there is strong scholarship that makes it no later than the era around Cyprian. This work has an unusual angelomorphic Christology that fits much better in the early centuries. And is highly unlikely for a fourth century writing. Generally Hundredfold Martyrs is considered as Christian in origin, although a couple of scholars have looked at it as in the gnostic fringe.
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"On the other hand it is not to be denied that many of his peculiarities, e.g. his Christology, have an archaic stamp."
Harvard Theological Review - 1914
Literature on Church History
https://books.google.com/books?id=a_cLAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA337
=============
While the Critical Text apparatus for the heavenly witnesses is a total disaster in terms of references from the early church writers, they have in fact included (Ps-Cyprian) on the positive side!
Walter Thiele (1923-2016), a leading Old Latin expert who "wrote the book" on the Old Latin of the Johannine Epistles, calls this an allusion to the verse, without any reservations. This is in Beobachtungen zum Comma Johanneum (1959), p. 69.
=============
There is a fuller textual section and some commentary in The Witness of God is Greater.
Your thoughts welcome.
=============
Steven Avery
Dutchess County, NY USA
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