preacher4truth
Well-known member
...and yet more unsubstantiated blather.
brightfame52
Well-known member
Which is not scriptural. Since Faith is the Fruit of the Spirit and New Birth, its not the natural mans duty have Faith or its not his duty to be born again. Faith in Christ is exhorted unto the newborn babes in Christ. Its graciously given to them Phil 1:29
brightfame52
Well-known member
Tom
The Gospel nor Christ are offered in Scripture, they are preached, declared. Its unscriptural to say the Gospel is offered. Show one verse that states the Gospel or Christ is offered !
The Gospel nor Christ are offered in Scripture, they are preached, declared. Its unscriptural to say the Gospel is offered. Show one verse that states the Gospel or Christ is offered !
Iconoclast
Active member
Because you do not understand the doctrine does not mean it is in error.
Now offer what you believe is scriptural correction and we will look at it.
What have you studied or read on these things?
zerinus
Well-known member
The "gospel" is literally a "good news" of the redemptive work of Jesus Christ. The Bible makes that "good news" applicable everybody without exception:
Mark 16:
15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel [good news] to every creature.
According to the Bible, there is nobody on the planet for whom the "gospel" is not a good news. It is a "good news" to everyone without exception. According to Calvinism, however, there are two classes people in the world: the "elect" and the "reprobate". The "elect" (a small minority) are those for whom Christ died, and whose sins he atoned for. The "reprobate" (the majority) are those who were predestined from eternity to damnation, and for whom Jesus did not die, and whose sins he did not atone for. So according to Calvinism, the "gospel" is a "good news" only for a small minority, the "elect," and bad news for everybody else. There you have a blatant contradiction between Calvinism and the Bible. The Bible makes "gospel" a "good news" to everyone without exception; whereas Calvinism makes it "good news" only for a small minority, the "elect," and bad news for everyone else.
zerinus
Well-known member
Try reading my last post, see if you like that one any better!
T
TomFL
Guest
Sort of like have a false god and the vain hope of being a god
zerinus
Well-known member
Your desperation is oblivious for everyone to see. You have lost the argument against both Calvinists and non-Calvinists alike. On the one hand, you can't defeat Calvinism properly because you are lumbered with half their theological baggage to start with, and which you don't know how to get rid of. On the other hand, you can't stand the sight of others being able to do much more effectively what you desperately want to be able to do, but can't. So the only option you are left with is to try and frustrate other people's efforts by diverting attention to something else. Well I have bad news for you, it won't work. You will only be increasing your own frustration, without having an impact on anyone else.
T
TomFL
Guest
Only in your mind
and as we have seen your imagined effectiveness is an illusion only you seem to see
BTW I think you just identified yourself
It became somewhat obvious a while back and further commentary on your part only serves to confirm it
zerinus
Well-known member
LOL! Keep making dumb comments. I am sure somebody out there will find it entertaining. Not me though. I started getting bored a long time ago. Have a nice day.
T
TomFL
Guest
What's the matter. Did you reveal too much of yourself ?
zerinus
Well-known member
Boring. Not interested. Take it somewhere else.
preacher4truth
Well-known member
This is untrue, the Gospel isn't good news to everyone. To the lost it is foolishness, 1 Corinthians 1:18, 2:14. Read the book of Acts, the Gospel is despised, rejected, mocked, ridiculed. So you're incorrect and the above is false and unbiblical. Furthermore only those ordained to eternal life believe, Acts 13:48. The Gospel is only good news to the elect, not the world at large. Therefore it isn't "Calvinism" that makes it so, it is Scripture, which we believe and preach.
I'd say your failure would be in not following 2 Timothy 2:15 but it is rather under John 3:7.
zerinus
Well-known member
Wrong. The "gospel" is "good news" to every creature. There are no exceptions:
Mark 16:
15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
The Choice to "believe and be baptized" is theirs; and therefore the choice to be saved or damned.
You got that backwards. The "lost" become "lost" by their own choice, by not believing and receiving the "good news" that was offered to them: "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned." (Mark 16:16) It wasn't because it wasn't a "good news" to them; but they had the choice to accept or reject it.
Sure it is, by some. But that is their choice, not God's.
Your theology is. The one I presented comes straight out of the Bible.
Except it doesn't mean what you think it means. It doesn't mean "unconditionally elected".
Romans 8:
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
The "foreknowing" comes before the "predestining" or the "election". To foreknow means that God knew in his foreknowledge that they would be righteous, and were therefore chosen accordingly. Calvinism turns it the wrong way around.
The Bible makes the gospel a "good news" to everyone without exception. It is a "good news" to the whole world.
Those scripture references are irrelevant to the discussion and do not prove a point. The bottom line is that Calvinism is heretical and false, and the Bible proves it.
SovereignGrace
Well-known member
Bam, and nailed!!!
preacher4truth
Well-known member
You've completely mangled texts and cannot even begin to see your error, and this is none other than 2 Corinthians 4:4 demonstrated.
Therefore I'm not in the least surprised nor perplexed that you continually get it wrong biblically. It is the fruit of one unregenerate. John 3:7.
preacher4truth
Well-known member
He cannot see it, being blinded in mind.
brightfame52
Well-known member
zerinus
Thats false. Yes it is the Good news of Salvation to some [the saved] but to some, the reprobate, the non elect, God designs it to be a savor of death unto death 2 Cor 2:12-16
12 Furthermore, when I came to Troas to preach Christ’s gospel, and a door was opened unto me of the Lord, 13 I had no rest in my spirit, because I found not Titus my brother: but taking my leave of them, I went from thence into Macedonia. 14 Now thanks be unto God, which always causeth us to triumph in Christ, and maketh manifest the savour of his knowledge by us in every place. 15 For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish: 16 to the one we are the savour of death unto death; and to the other the savour of life unto life. And who is sufficient for these things?
Notice the Gospel in Vs 15 is to them " that are saved" and again to them that perish, the lost ! Its only good news to them that are saved ! to the non elect perishing or lost its a savour of death ! The word perish apollymi means lost. The same word is found in 2 Cor 4:3
But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost
Thats false. Yes it is the Good news of Salvation to some [the saved] but to some, the reprobate, the non elect, God designs it to be a savor of death unto death 2 Cor 2:12-16
12 Furthermore, when I came to Troas to preach Christ’s gospel, and a door was opened unto me of the Lord, 13 I had no rest in my spirit, because I found not Titus my brother: but taking my leave of them, I went from thence into Macedonia. 14 Now thanks be unto God, which always causeth us to triumph in Christ, and maketh manifest the savour of his knowledge by us in every place. 15 For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish: 16 to the one we are the savour of death unto death; and to the other the savour of life unto life. And who is sufficient for these things?
Notice the Gospel in Vs 15 is to them " that are saved" and again to them that perish, the lost ! Its only good news to them that are saved ! to the non elect perishing or lost its a savour of death ! The word perish apollymi means lost. The same word is found in 2 Cor 4:3
But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost
zerinus
Well-known member
Burying your head in the sand is the Calvinists' ultimate defense strategy. Good luck with that. They will have a rude awakening when judgement day comes.
Theo1689
Well-known member
This doesn't say the the "gospel is good news to every creature".
It says the good news is to be PREACHED to every creature.
Big difference.
It doesn't say anything about "it is THEIR choice".
People can't "choose" what they believe.
Atheists can't "choose" to believe in God.
Christians can't "choose" not to believe in God.
Just like you can't "choose" to believe that gravity pulls up.
Just like you can't "choose" to believe that your parents aren't your parents.
Wrong.
Where does the Bible say that the gospel is "good news" for every creature, instead of simply it is to be PREACHED to every creature?
Where does the Bible say that people can "choose" what they believe?
Eph. 2:8 says that faith is a GIFT of God.
Rom.12:3 says that faith is a GIFT of God.
Phil. 1:29 says that faith is a GIFT of God.
2 Pet. 1:1 says that faith is a GIFT of God.
Wrong again.
According to BDAG and other Greek lexicons, "proginosko", when the object is a person, means "CHOOSES in advance". It is an ACTION that God DOES, not simply something He "knows".
ROTFLOL!
Non-Calvinists are the ones who "turn in the wrong way around".
Over and over and over again, the Bible teaches that it is GOD who chooses "the elect". Indeed, "the elect" simply means "the elected ones", or "the ones elected", which means something is done TO them (they are "elected/chosen"), yet you would claim THEY choose their salvation status, and God does absolutely NOTHING but "recognize" what MAN chose for himself.
You make MAN the "chooser", when the Bible teaches that GOD is the chooser.
Typical Mormonism.
Any Biblical passages that contradict Mormon teaching are "irrelevant".
Regarding the Mormon teaching of "plural gods", all the passages which teach that "only one god exists" (Deut. 4:35,39, Deut. 32:39, 1 Kings 8:60, Ps. 86:10, Isa. 43:10, Isa. 44:6,8, Isa. 45:5,21,22, Isa. 46:9, Mark 12:32, 1 Cor. 8:4, etc. etc.) are "irrelevant".
Regarding the Mormon teaching of "obedience is required for salvation", all the passages which teach salvation is by "faith alone, and not by works" (Eph. 2:8-9, 2 Tim. 1:9, Tit. 3:5, Rom. 4:1-6, Rom. 11:5-6, etc. etc.) are "irrelevant".