Hyper Calvinism defined

Chalcedon said:
Because God allows men to reject Him out of His love for them . No force or coercion .

hope this helps !!!
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God allows them to reject them so the suffer for a eternity? That's some loving god you have there. I guess He does not love them enough to save them.

How come your god does not love you enough to allow you to walk away after you come to faith if you so choose?

Opps

hope this helps
 
I reject all of these points. I am not a hyper Calvinist. Calvin did not believe in CG or the WMO. How could those two points be "hyper"?

The term is used by Pelagians and neo Calvinists to poison the well.

The definition can be different depending on how one comprehends Calvin's writings. To be hyper Calvinist is not a bad thing necessarily. It just means you believe more than Calvin did concerning God's sovereignty.
 
Chalcedon said:
Because God allows men to reject Him out of His love for them . No force or coercion .

hope this helps !!!
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Actually, the reverse is true. Because all men, by nature, reject God (Rom 3:11b), God allows some men to believe in Him.
 
Howie said:
How do you know that?


That's not the only conclusion which can be reached regarding Paul's


I know that all people are not saved; therefore, the "all" cannot mean all without exception, but must mean, all without distinction.


Same difficulty. The whole world isn't given salvation.
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Brother, you can read so you know the passages from the writings of the Apostle Paul and John both clearly state that God's grace has been given to all people. Now you can accept them, along with numerous other passages including Hebrews 2:9 that states our Lord tasted death/died for everyone, or you can continue to think opposite.

Here's another one clearly meaning God gave His Son for the whole world, "For the love of Christ controls us, because we have concluded this: that one has died for all, therefore all have died; and he died for all, that those who live might no longer live for themselves but for him who for their sake died and was raised...All this is from God, who through Christ reconciled us to himself and gave us the ministry of reconciliation; that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation. Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, God making his appeal through us. We implore you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God. (2Co 5:14-20)

And I agree all men are not saved, for not all men who hear believe the Good News. But it is not that God did not, and does not show them grace to believe, "For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people”. As Jesus told Nicodemus, some people love the darkness/sin and refuse to come into the light/repent and believe and be reconciled to God.

The whole world is given salvation because God said so, not me. I didn't write the clear passages of the bible. I hope you can accept their truth over all else.

God bless
 
Joe said:
Brother, you can read so you know the passages from the writings of the Apostle Paul and John both clearly state that God's grace has been given to all people. Now you can accept them, along with numerous other passages including Hebrews 2:9 that states our Lord tasted death/died for everyone, or you can continue to think opposite.

Here's another one clearly meaning God gave His Son for the whole world, "For the love of Christ controls us, because we have concluded this: that one has died for all, therefore all have died; and he died for all, that those who live might no longer live for themselves but for him who for their sake died and was raised...All this is from God, who through Christ reconciled us to himself and gave us the ministry of reconciliation; that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation. Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, God making his appeal through us. We implore you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God. (2Co 5:14-20)

And I agree all men are not saved, for not all men who hear believe the Good News. But it is not that God did not, and does not show them grace to believe, "For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people”. As Jesus told Nicodemus, some people love the darkness/sin and refuse to come into the light/repent and believe and be reconciled to God.

The whole world is given salvation because God said so, not me. I didn't write the clear passages of the bible. I hope you can accept their truth over all else.

God bless
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Ditto
 
Joe said:
Brother, you can read so you know the passages from the writings of the Apostle Paul and John both clearly state that God's grace has been given to all people.
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Sure, He gives to all the grace of rain and to all the grace of fruitful seasons as a witness (acts 14:17), but that is not the grace that saves. It can't be, because by definition, the grace that saves, saves, but not all are saved.

Joe said:
Now you can accept them, along with numerous other passages including Hebrews 2:9 that states our Lord tasted death/died for everyone, or you can continue to think opposite.
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That's what Heb 2:9 says.

Where does scripture say He gives to everyone the grace that saves ?

Joe said:
Here's another one clearly meaning God gave His Son for the whole world, "For the love of Christ controls us, because we have concluded this: that one has died for all, therefore all have died; and he died for all, that those who live might no longer live for themselves but for him who for their sake died and was raised...All this is from God, who through Christ reconciled us to himself and gave us the ministry of reconciliation; that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation. Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, God making his appeal through us. We implore you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God. (2Co 5:14-20)
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That is what's said in that passage. No one can deny that.

Where does scripture say He gives to everyone the grace that saves ?

Joe said:
And I agree all men are not saved, for not all men who hear believe the Good News.
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Why is that?

Joe said:
But it is not that God did not, and does not show them grace to believe,
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Again, by definition, "Grace to believe," results in belief. God did not give grace to believe to all men, else all men would believe.

Joe said:
"For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people”.
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As I said to you before, we know that all men are not saved.

Joe said:
As Jesus told Nicodemus, some people love the darkness/sin and refuse to come into the light/repent and believe and be reconciled to God.
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Paul tells in Rom 3:11b, no one seeks God.

Joe said:
The whole world is given salvation because God said so, not me.
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That's universalism. God does not give salvation to everyone. He offers it, but He doesn't give it to everyone?
Joe said:
I didn't write the clear passages of the bible. I hope you can accept their truth over all else.
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Thanks.
 
Reformedguy said:
He does love the non elect. Not with the same love He does for His church. God can and does discriminate with His love as we do.

The question should be does He love them enough to actually save them.
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I believe He does and if they would repent and believe as He commanded He would save them.
 
Howie said:
Sure, He gives to all the grace of rain and to all the grace of fruitful seasons as a witness (acts 14:17), but that is not the grace that saves. It can't be, because by definition, the grace that saves, saves, but not all are saved.


That's what Heb 2:9 says.

Where does scripture say He gives to everyone the grace that saves ?


That is what's said in that passage. No one can deny that.

Where does scripture say He gives to everyone the grace that saves ?


Why is that?


Again, by definition, "Grace to believe," results in belief. God did not give grace to believe to all men, else all men would believe.


As I said to you before, we know that all men are not saved.


Paul tells in Rom 3:11b, no one seeks God.


That's universalism. God does not give salvation to everyone. He offers it, but He doesn't give it to everyone?

Thanks.
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The ones not seeking God are doing so by their choice or either scripture is full of lies. Act 17:27 - That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:
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Isa 51:1 - Hearken to me, ye that follow after righteousness, ye that seekthe LORD: look unto the rock whenceye are hewn, and to the hole of the pitwhence ye are digged.
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Isa 55:6 - Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near.
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Amo 5:4 - For thus saith the LORDunto the house of Israel, Seek ye me, and ye shall live:
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Act 15:17 - That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.
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Psa 105:4 - Seek the LORD, and his strength: seek his face evermore.
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Pro 28:5 - Evil men understand not judgment: but they that seek theLORD understand all things
 
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Joe said:
RG, essentially what you are saying is God loves some less.
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He does. Jacob I have loved, Essu I have hated (Rom 9)

Joe said:
And yet the our Lord and His hand picked Apostles declared that God showed His love for the world by giving His Son to be the propitiation for the sins of the whole world. And we know from Hebrews 2:9 that God's Son tasted death for everyone. And yet it seems you think that God loves some less even though He gave His Son for them.
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He gave His Son that the believing ones might be saved, not the entire world (Jn 3:16)

Joe said:
Hypothetically, if you gave your son to save the whole world, it would seem you would have meant it and fully intended to save the whole world.
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Honestly, if you gave your Son to save the whole world, you would save the whole world. But God doesn't save the whole world, So He musn't have given His Son to dsve everyone, but only some.

Joe said:
Why should we think any differently with God, especially since it is not hypothetical that God gave His Son to tase death for everyone and be the propitiation for the sins of the whole world?
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God doesn't save everyone.
 
Howie said:
He does. Jacob I have loved, Essu I have hated (Rom 9)


He gave His Son that the believing ones might be saved, not the entire world (Jn 3:16)


Honestly, if you gave your Son to save the whole world, you would save the whole world. But God doesn't save the whole world, So He musn't have given His Son to dsve everyone, but only some.


God doesn't save everyone.
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Could it be that through God’s foreknowledge He knew Esau would sell his birthright for a bowel of stew ?
 
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