I am curious how YOU would answer this question...

Individual Men become in Christ when they believe

I am curious how YOU would answer this question...

Are there ANY circumstances, OUT OF YOUR CONTROL, which had they been different, you might not have believed in Christ?

My answer is Yes. There are many. The first was that I was born to Christian parents in a country with few Christians. If I had been born to other parents I might not have believed in Christ.

It is a simple question and I did not use any fancy terms.

Are you willing to give us your answer.


P.S.

In full disclosure, my followup question will be...

If you answered Yes to the question above, WHO WAS IN CONTROL of those circumstances?
 

TomFL

Well-known member
I am curious how YOU would answer this question...

Are there ANY circumstances, OUT OF YOUR CONTROL, which had they been different, you might not have believed in Christ?

My answer is Yes. There are many. The first was that I was born to Christian parents in a country with few Christians. If I had been born to other parents I might not have believed in Christ.

It is a simple question and I did not use any fancy terms.

Are you willing to give us your answer.


P.S.

In full disclosure, my followup question will be...

If you answered Yes to the question above, WHO WAS IN CONTROL of those circumstances?
I don't know

I do not possess middle knowledge

Only God would know that

but what has that to do with the op ?
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
I am curious how YOU would answer this question...

Are there ANY circumstances, OUT OF YOUR CONTROL, which had they been different, you might not have believed in Christ?

My answer is Yes. There are many. The first was that I was born to Christian parents in a country with few Christians. If I had been born to other parents I might not have believed in Christ.

It is a simple question and I did not use any fancy terms.

Are you willing to give us your answer.


P.S.

In full disclosure, my followup question will be...

If you answered Yes to the question above, WHO WAS IN CONTROL of those circumstances?
If you are one of Gods elect, you will believe no matter what. It doesnt matter about parents or location. Jn 17 2

as thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

Its possible that Gods elect can be born unto reprobate parents, that doesn't hinder His purpose to save His elect !
 

TomFL

Well-known member
If you are one of Gods elect, you will believe no matter what. It doesnt matter about parents or location. Jn 17 2

as thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

Its possible that Gods elect can be born unto reprobate parents, that doesn't hinder His purpose to save His elect !
You just assume they are arbitrarily given

John 6:45 —ESV
“It is written in the Prophets, ‘And they will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to me—”
 
I am curious how YOU would answer this question...

Are there ANY circumstances, OUT OF YOUR CONTROL, which had they been different, you might not have believed in Christ?
Yes; and God was in control of the circumstances. Although I was born in the American South to Christian parents (and thus had great odds), I could have been born instead as a Muslim in Saudi Arabia, or as an atheist in the Soviet Union, or even as a slave centuries ago in some remote part of world. It's an even bigger miracle that I exist at all...just as there are an infinite number of random numbers I could pick to write down on a sheet of paper, so God had an infinite number of souls He could have created in my place.

In the same way, we know that if the people of Sodom had been born into a different time and place (namely, in first century Capernaum), they would have repented at the miracles of Christ. But alas, they were born about 2000 years earlier in Sodom. We simply don't know why God brought them into existence in such a wretched time and place when they would have had a different outcome had He allowed them to be born in different circumstances. So, while one can maintain unconditional election in light of your questions, the doctrine of total depravity doesn't necessarily follow from them.
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Yes Election of men to Salvation is Gods act from within Himself, He is Sovereign. Now if you call that arbitrary, soot yourself
sorry that is not what the scripture stated

John 6:45 —ESV
“It is written in the Prophets, ‘And they will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to me—”
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Yes its in these scriptures. People were chosen in Christ before the foundation, so it could not have been conditioned on them, for they did not yet exist !
Not a word there about unconditional election

Not a word there about being unconditionally chosen to salvation

It's not there
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Not a word there about unconditional election

Not a word there about being unconditionally chosen to salvation

It's not there
Not a word about not being chosen in Christ unconditionally, and not a word that men were not unconditionally chosen to salvation. Thats how lame your argument is.
 
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