T
TomFL
Guest
You can't claim it is truth for you admitted it is not statedThats always your scapegoat method of denying truth !
Unconditional election is never mentioned in the bible
You can't claim it is truth for you admitted it is not statedThats always your scapegoat method of denying truth !
I don't know
I do not possess middle knowledge
Only God would know that
but what has that to do with the op ?
You are a bit confusedSo you can't think of EVEN ONE circumstance outside of your control that was used to lead you to Christ!!!
So you have no need to thank God for what he does for you (in addition to Calvary). All I can say is Wow!!!
You are the type of person who thinks that even if you had been born Osama Bin Laden's child you would have still believed in Jesus because of YOUR wisdom or something.
P.S.
I believe in divine election, so this is an non-issue. God would have made the way for me to be believe.
But for those who stress free will, the issue of different circumstances is a valid question. Would you still believe if you had different circumstances?
You are a bit confused
None of this below is what you originally asked me or has any relevance to my reply
Then let me ask you directly...
Has God done ANYTHING to help you believe in him, that had he NOT done it you might not have believed?
If you say NO...
Then you have no need to thank God for what he has done for you (other than Calvary).
P.S.
I say YES! The first of many is that God had me born to Christian parents in a country with few Christians.
Look God does a lot of things to bring people to faith but who can say if he didn't do it one way or it didn't happen one way it could have not happened another
Why is God limited to what one might believe was the only way
I am saying God does things to encourage faithAre you saying that God does some things to bring people to faith that he does not do for others?
In other words, God arranges for most living in some countries to hear the Gospel, but does not arrange for most living in Afghanistan to hear the Gospel.
I am saying God does things to encourage faith
and I am not going to put him in a box on how or what manner he must operate
though it does seem to me there are advantages being born in one place than the other
Yes; if something had been different I wouldn't have believed in Christ. If I hadn't finally agreed to go to Church with my brother to get him to stop asking me to go, I wouldn't have gotten Saved; well, I wouldn't have gotten Saved THAT day...I am curious how YOU would answer this question...
Are there ANY circumstances, OUT OF YOUR CONTROL, which had they been different, you might not have believed in Christ?
My answer is Yes. There are many. The first was that I was born to Christian parents in a country with few Christians. If I had been born to other parents I might not have believed in Christ.
It is a simple question and I did not use any fancy terms.
Are you willing to give us your answer.
P.S.
In full disclosure, my followup question will be...
If you answered Yes to the question above, WHO WAS IN CONTROL of those circumstances?
Look at what Mordecai told Esther. ”Do not imagine that you in the king’s palace can escape any more than all the Jews. For if you remain silent at this time, relief and deliverance will arise for the Jews from another place and you and your father’s house will perish. And who knows whether you have not attained royalty for such a time as this?”[Esther 4:13-14] Open theists and molinists love to use this to support their beliefs. But Esther did exactly what God predestined her to do.Yes; if something had been different I wouldn't have believed in Christ. If I hadn't finally agreed to go to Church with my brother to get him to stop asking me to go, I wouldn't have gotten Saved; well, I wouldn't have gotten Saved THAT day...
I think it's a yes and no answer. A Seed was planted, the Seed was watered; but if God didn't give the growth THAT day, the Seed would have been watered again until God gave the growth. There are a lot of things that are out of our control, like the Holy Spirit coming and going, etc; but I think the main thing that's out of my control is God's Unmerited Favor. If there was a reason I should Merit the Grace of God, it wouldn't be Grace and could only be Merited Favor. By definition, Unmerited Favor HAS to be at the top of the list of things that are out of my control...
And answering your follow-up; God is always in control if Unmerited Favor IS a factor...
Are you a former member of CARM Forums?Look at what Mordecai told Esther. ”Do not imagine that you in the king’s palace can escape any more than all the Jews. For if you remain silent at this time, relief and deliverance will arise for the Jews from another place and you and your father’s house will perish. And who knows whether you have not attained royalty for such a time as this?”[Esther 4:13-14] Open theists and molinists love to use this to support their beliefs. But Esther did exactly what God predestined her to do.
No I’m not. I just signed up last night. I am a member, and former member(banned) of quite a few others. Reformed folk aren’t welcomed on many Christian websites.Are you a former member of CARM Forums?
When I argue against Molinism, Counterfactuals, and Middle Knowledge; I point out that If I were Saved in one Reality but not Saved in the Main Sequence Reality, God will have lost a Sheep when he will lose none...
Welcome to CARM!No I’m not. I just signed up last night. I am a member, and former member(banned) of quite a few others. Reformed folk aren’t welcomed on many Christian websites.
I got kicked off of the Society of Arminians Farcebook Group because I got an Arminian to start agreeing with me that we're Totally Unable without the Grace of God making a 'real' difference in our Salvation, and prevening even our Will...No I’m not. I just signed up last night. I am a member, and former member(banned) of quite a few others. Reformed folk aren’t welcomed on many Christian websites.
Because CARM is mostly reformed, iirc.I got kicked off of the Society of Arminians Farcebook Group because I got an Arminian to start agreeing with me...
I wonder why that doesn't happen here...
Well, I don’t believe for one second God leaves ppl‘s salvation to chance. Neither do I think He looked down through the corridors of time to see who would be willing and elected to save them. He knew everyone who would be saved, and that was because He worked it out according to His plan, not their’s.I am curious how YOU would answer this question... Are there ANY circumstances, OUT OF YOUR CONTROL, which had they been different, you might not have believed in Christ? My answer is Yes. There are many. The first was that I was born to Christian parents in a country with few Christians. If I had been born to other parents I might not have believed in Christ. It is a simple question and I did not use any fancy terms. Are you willing to give us your answer. P.S. In full disclosure, my followup question will be... If you answered Yes to the question above, WHO WAS IN CONTROL of those circumstances?
Yes, Election of Individuals is unconditional Eph 1:4 !
from the 1689 confession of faithI am curious how YOU would answer this question...
Are there ANY circumstances, OUT OF YOUR CONTROL, which had they been different, you might not have believed in Christ?
My answer is Yes. There are many. The first was that I was born to Christian parents in a country with few Christians. If I had been born to other parents I might not have believed in Christ.
It is a simple question and I did not use any fancy terms.
Are you willing to give us your answer.
P.S.
In full disclosure, my followup question will be...
If you answered Yes to the question above, WHO WAS IN CONTROL of those circumstances?
I am curious how YOU would answer this question...
Are there ANY circumstances, OUT OF YOUR CONTROL, which had they been different, you might not have believed in Christ?
My answer is Yes. There are many. The first was that I was born to Christian parents in a country with few Christians. If I had been born to other parents I might not have believed in Christ.
It is a simple question and I did not use any fancy terms.
Are you willing to give us your answer.
P.S.
In full disclosure, my followup question will be...
If you answered Yes to the question above, WHO WAS IN CONTROL of those circumstances?
I am curious how YOU would answer this question...
Are there ANY circumstances, OUT OF YOUR CONTROL, which had they been different, you might not have believed in Christ?
My answer is Yes. There are many. The first was that I was born to Christian parents in a country with few Christians. If I had been born to other parents I might not have believed in Christ.
It is a simple question and I did not use any fancy terms.
Are you willing to give us your answer.
P.S.
In full disclosure, my followup question will be...
If you answered Yes to the question above, WHO WAS IN CONTROL of those circumstances?