I Am Not A Sinner

Gary Mac

Well-known member
I'm not arguing with John, as I agree completely with the meaning of his words. I'm debating with you, because you consistently take his words out of context and conform them to your private interpretation.
Oh no not a private interpretation at all, His way to be like Him is open to anyone who will believe Him, and in reality I have seen Him and am like Him, my identity is with Him. You are supposed to be as well.
But since this is where our paths diverge, I'll just abandon the conversation and let you have the last word.
Not very secure in your doctrine are you? For I have pointed out to you things you have not considered of God and the Christ. Puts you under conviction and you don't like e it for it bucks against your religious beliefs.
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
There was this old jingle that went like this, "oooh, you ain't got a thing if you ain't got that cling..."

The one who believes in the Son has eternal life; but the one who does not obey the Son will not see life, John 3:36
Thats right and either you are His son or you are not. Most do not believe in being His son as Jesus came to show people what it is to actually follow Jesus to the Father and be His son yourself.
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
There was this old jingle that went like this, "oooh, you ain't got a thing if you ain't got that cling..."

The one who believes in the Son has eternal life; but the one who does not obey the Son will not see life, John 3:36

And keep in mind that He is eternal.

Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. John 17:3
Man that is what I keep telling these, and they still can't see the AND between God AND Jesus who God sent.

They can't relate to God sending Jesus to show them the way to the Father.
 

JonHawk

Active member
For we are His workmanship created in Christ Jesus reborn from above—spiritually transformed, renewed, Eph 2:10
Thats right and either you are His son or you are not. Most do not believe in being His son as Jesus came to show people what it is to actually follow Jesus to the Father and be His son yourself.
Put on the new [regenerated and renewed nature], created in God’s image, in the righteousness [Christlike] and holiness of the truth expressing gratitude to God for your salvation. Eph 4:24

In this [union and fellowship with Him], love is completed with us, so that we may have confidence in the day of judgment [with assurance and boldness to face Him]; because as He is, so are we in this world. 1 John 4:17
 

tdidymas

Active member
Oh no not a private interpretation at all, His way to be like Him is open to anyone who will believe Him, and in reality I have seen Him and am like Him, my identity is with Him. You are supposed to be as well.

Not very secure in your doctrine are you? For I have pointed out to you things you have not considered of God and the Christ. Puts you under conviction and you don't like e it for it bucks against your religious beliefs.
Wrong again, Sherlock. Your pride is showing.
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
For we are His workmanship created in Christ Jesus reborn from above—spiritually transformed, renewed, Eph 2:10

Put on the new [regenerated and renewed nature], created in God’s image, in the righteousness [Christlike] and holiness of the truth expressing gratitude to God for your salvation. Eph 4:24

In this [union and fellowship with Him], love is completed with us, so that we may have confidence in the day of judgment [with assurance and boldness to face Him]; because as He is, so are we in this world. 1 John 4:17
Amen as He is so are we in this world.
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
Wrong again, Sherlock. Your pride is showing.
Actually Gods Spirit is showing, Shout it from the rooftops. Pride would keep me from it. Maybe your pride will not allow you to as well? Or perhaps you can't relate to the joy of being in the Father as Jesus was in the Father?
 

tdidymas

Active member
Actually Gods Spirit is showing, Shout it from the rooftops. Pride would keep me from it. Maybe your pride will not allow you to as well? Or perhaps you can't relate to the joy of being in the Father as Jesus was in the Father?
What do you do with "if we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us"? Since John included himself in that statement, he was speaking of himself in his present tense. The application to this is that if you are claiming you have no sin, you are deceived.
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
What do you do with "if we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us"? Since John included himself in that statement, he was speaking of himself in his present tense. The application to this is that if you are claiming you have no sin, you are deceived.
I do not do anything with it. Jesus was made to be sin by identification with his mortal man, according to those who had him crucified for being a blasphemer, sinner.

I am no different, to religious folk such as the who accused Jesus of sin I am no different for I have the. same from the Father Jesus had from Him and you are supposed to have the same in yourself.

You should read the whole text before you comment in ignorance for what it says.
This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

If you say you are of Christ but walk in sin, you lie, fo if you say you follow the way of Christ yet a sinner, that makes the one you say you follow a sinner doesn't it?

7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

Cleanse us from all sin, do you actually think that is a lie?

8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

Again, this flesh man is of sin exampled in Jesus who was made to be sin.

9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

There is that cleansing from sin again.

10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Note -- sinned has an ed at the end -- past participle,

Either you are of Christ and cleansed from ALL sin and walk as He walks in His same light or you are not of Christ and walk in sin.

Go on to read in 1 John 3, He really does take away the sins of this world, and in V 9 we who are born of God it is impossible to be in sin. And when you see Him as He is ye shall be like Him. IN him is no sin.

Either you are born of God, Jesus described as born again to be born of the Father of righteousness, or you are not and walk in unrighteousness.
 

tdidymas

Active member
I do not do anything with it. Jesus was made to be sin by identification with his mortal man, according to those who had him crucified for being a blasphemer, sinner.

I am no different, to religious folk such as the who accused Jesus of sin I am no different for I have the. same from the Father Jesus had from Him and you are supposed to have the same in yourself.

You should read the whole text before you comment in ignorance for what it says.
This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

If you say you are of Christ but walk in sin, you lie, fo if you say you follow the way of Christ yet a sinner, that makes the one you say you follow a sinner doesn't it?

7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

Cleanse us from all sin, do you actually think that is a lie?

8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

Again, this flesh man is of sin exampled in Jesus who was made to be sin.

9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

There is that cleansing from sin again.

10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Note -- sinned has an ed at the end -- past participle,

Either you are of Christ and cleansed from ALL sin and walk as He walks in His same light or you are not of Christ and walk in sin.

Go on to read in 1 John 3, He really does take away the sins of this world, and in V 9 we who are born of God it is impossible to be in sin. And when you see Him as He is ye shall be like Him. IN him is no sin.

Either you are born of God, Jesus described as born again to be born of the Father of righteousness, or you are not and walk in unrighteousness.
You keep harping on your false interpretation of all these passages. You have a dilemma (whether you recognize it or not). In all this, why aren't you explaining how 1 Jn. 1:8 fits? It obviously is contradicting what you are saying. Therefore, your polemic interpretation must be wrong, since 1:8 doesn't fit in. This is why you avoid it.

"If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." I think you have the burden of exegesis on this verse of scripture, because it contradicts the sinless idea you are propagating.
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
You keep harping on your false interpretation of all these passages. You have a dilemma (whether you recognize it or not). In all this, why aren't you explaining how 1 Jn. 1:8 fits? It obviously is contradicting what you are saying. Therefore, your polemic interpretation must be wrong, since 1:8 doesn't fit in. This is why you avoid it.
You should read my reply before you comment in ignorance about it. I did explain it, and why didn't you reply to my reply about it? Go on to read 1 John 3.

I don't have a dilemma at all, the dilemma for you is that you do not understand what it is to be in the Father as Jesus was in the Father.
"If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." I think you have the burden of exegesis on this verse of scripture, because it contradicts the sinless idea you are propagating.
Already went through this go and read it. You really should read it before you make comment in ignorance about my reply.
 

Beloved Daughter

Super Member
This is a long post but a lot has gone into it.

Although the Work of Christ is perfect and completed and we can access that grace through faith, the devil uses the idea of sinless perfection to feed our pride and self-righteousness.

It's all gets a little fuzzy about what makes us perfect when we start looking to our performance and actions to determine if we are sinners. Because grace cannot be fully manifested in this life and we can never attain perfection in performance, the devil can use the doctrine of sinless perfection to constantly feed our sense of attainment and self-importance apart from the merit of Christ.

If CHRIST ALONE is my merit, IT DOESN'T MATTER how well I'm performing in relation to righteousness attributed to me from his work: this is the devastation of all self-righteous feelings. Why then, does Christ demand the application of grace and a measure of imperfect obedience to be able to obtain a part of his, and his alone, gift of righteousness? I believe it is the appropriate expression of faith that his work alone is sufficient.

Quote snipped for CC and brevity.

I believe that some of what you say is accurate, but some of this leaves me curious considering your statement regarding the Trinity.
This is your post:

John 15:13 Poses A Huge Problem For Trinitarians | CARM Forums

I've never been a big fan of that kind of argument; along with a similar one, if God isn't three persons he can't be love, since he has no one to love. I don't think that works, personally. By that logic God should be an infinite number of persons so he can love infinitely I guess.

We might say that Jesus loves us more than the Father and Spirit because he is the one who actually dies, however since they love each other so perfectly, we might argue they would suffer as well, although not in an atoning capacity, but just knowing what Jesus is going through.

I completely agree with your point about the hypostatic union, however. If Jesus is just a divine person watching from heaven an attached human nature die, that does not seem like the same kind of love does it. But I reject the hypostatic union and believe the Word really became flesh.


I recently acquired Lenski's NT commentary and am very impressed with his attention to detail. In his commentary on Philippians 2:5-8 he offers some serious criticism against those he considers kenoticists, or kenotic theologians, whom he separates into "full kenotic" and "semi kenotic," and I...

In sum, I think we can say that even Paul admits "someone might die for someone they like" (Rom. 5:7). But God doesn't just die for "friends." Jesus dies for his enemies—that's the real miracle, that's the agape kind of love none of us can ever produce—to die for our enemies.

Interesting post!

I removed some of your others posts, but the link to your post has remained so that others can read them.

So what's the deal? Are you a Trinitarian or not?

This is not a 'gotcha' post, rather I came by it accidentally and saw what I considered to be a disconnect.
 
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Manfred

Well-known member
It seems here that you are admitting that you are in disobedience to Jesus' command to sin no more.
Not condoning any sin, but have you not overstepped since salvation? Unless you believe you will only know if you are saved after judgement to see if you made it or not....
 

Manfred

Well-known member
When Jesus said that there is none righteous, was he referring to the people on earth at that time? Because now we are called to righteousness in the name of Jesus. When we accept that call, we are considered righteous by God. Still we remain sinners and must repent of known and unknown sins. This is just my thinking. Yet, we are still sinners as long as we are in the flesh.
Un-redeemed sinners vs redeemed who err.

We are redeemed through/by His righteousness, that is imputed to us. His righteousness becomes our own, and continues to cover sin.

This of course does not give us a license to sin. The word of God says:
Rom 5 - 6
19 For as by the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man's obedience the many will be made righteous. 20 Now the law came in to increase the trespass, but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more, 21 so that, as sin reigned in death, grace also might reign through righteousness leading to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
6 What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 By no means!
 

Dizerner

Well-known member
I believe that some of what you say is accurate, but some of this leaves me curious considering your statement regarding the Trinity.
This is your post:

I removed some of your others posts, but the link to your post has remained so that others can read them.

So what's the deal? Are you a Trinitarian or not?

This is not a 'gotcha' post, rather I came by it accidentally and saw what I considered to be a disconnect.

I consider myself a Trinitarian but reject some mainstream thought on Christology. I believe in 3 co-equal personal entities sharing one essence (which some in a modern trend against so-called "social" Trinitarianism mistakenly think is tri-theism), but because I believe the Bible is literally true when it says the Word became flesh, some persecute me on this forum or consider me non-orthodox. You can read my doctrinal journey here:

 
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