I Am sayings of Jesus

civic

Well-known member
12 I Am Sayings of Jesus, not 8 as most scholars discuss.


1. Bread

“I am the bread of life; he who comes to Me shall not hunger.” John 6:35

2. Light
“I am the light of the world; he who fallows Me shall not walk in the darkness, but shall have the light of life.” John 8:12

3. Gate
“I am the gate; if anyone enters through Me, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.” John 10:9

4. Good Shepherd
“I am the good shepherd; the good shepherd lays down His life for His sheep.” John 10:11

5. Resurrection and Life
“I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me shall live even if he dies.” John 11:25

6. Way, Truth, Life
“I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but through Me.” John 14:6

7. True vine
“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser.” John 15:1

8. I Am
unless you believe I Am He you will die in your sins” John 8:24

9. I Am
Before Abraham was born I AM- John 8:58

10, I Am the Alpha and Omega the Lord God Almighty. Revelatin 1:8

11. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.” Rev 22:13

12. I Am the First and the Last. Revelation 1:17-18, Revelation 2:8, Isaiah 44:6

Indeed Christ is the I Am of the OT, the same I Am in Exodus 3:13 and Isaiah 44.

hope this helps !!!
 
Indeed Christ is the I Am of the OT, the same I Am in Exodus 3:13 and Isaiah 44.

Just to clarify what you are saying...

Is the I Am of the OT a subsistent, incommunicable subject of an intellectual nature?

I say Yes.

Exodus 3:13-14... And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them? And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

Isaiah 44:6... Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

Isaiah 44:24... Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;


P.S.

Here is how I describe the distinctions between the Father, the Son, the Spirit, and YAH...

YAH is spirit and is the only one who is eternal. YAH is also in the universe as spirit and as a human. YAH in the universe as spirit is called the Spirit of God, YAH in the universe as a human is called the Son of God, and eternal YAH is called God the Father.

YAH

Psalm 68:4 NKJV... Sing to God, sing praises to His name; Extol Him who rides on the clouds, By His name YAH, And rejoice before Him.

is spirit
John 4:24 NKJV... “God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”

and is the only one who is eternal...
Deuteronomy 33:27 NKJV... The eternal God is your refuge, And underneath are the everlasting arms; He will thrust out the enemy from before you, And will say, ‘Destroy!’
Isaiah 37:16 NKJV... “O LORD of hosts, God of Israel, the One who dwells between the cherubim, You are God, You alone, of all the kingdoms of the earth. You have made heaven and earth.

YAH is also in the universe as spirit
Genesis 1:2 NKJV... The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

and as a human...
1 Timothy 3:16 NKJV... And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory.

YAH in the universe as spirit is called the Spirit of God
Genesis 1:2 NKJV... The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

YAH in the universe as a human is called the Son of God
Luke 1:35 NKJV... And the angel answered and said to her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Highest will overshadow you; therefore, also, that Holy One who is to be born will be called the Son of God.

and eternal YAH is called God the Father.
1 Corinthians 8:6 NKJV... yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live.
 

TrevorL

Member
Greetings civic,
8. I Am “unless you believe I Am He you will die in your sins” John 8:24
9. I Am Before Abraham was born I AM- John 8:58
I question why you leave out John 8:28 from your list, because in a matter of a few verses Jesus uses the same expression again:
John 8:24 (KJV): I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
John 8:28 (KJV): Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.
John 8:58 (KJV): Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

But when we look at John 8:28 we can see that Jesus is not claiming here to be Deity, but as the Son of man that he is utterly dependent upon God his Father. Even the KJV translators have given a different perspective by translating both John 8:24 and John 8:28 as “I am he” not “I AM”. This also calls in question if John 8:58 is correctly translated, as the same expression is used, but here the KJV translates as “I am”. I prefer “I am he” for each of these verses including John 8:58, and the three quotations are part of the theme in John’s Gospel as to whether Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God John 20:30-31.

Indeed Christ is the I Am of the OT, the same I Am in Exodus 3:13 and Isaiah 44.
The Name of God was revealed to Moses in the following terms:
Exodus 3:14-15 (KJV): 14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you. 15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.

Most translations and commentators accept the present tense “I am that I am”, but notice in the margin of the RV (or ASV) and RSV, an alternative is given “I will be that I will be” or “I will be what I will be”, showing that some modern scholars suggest this alternative reading. Although not popular it appears that this future tense is the correct translation. Not only modern scholars, Tyndale also translated this in the future tense.
Exodus 3:12-14 (Tyndale): 12 And he sayde: I wilbe with the. And this shalbe a token vnto the that I haue sent the: after that thou hast broughte the people out of Egipte, ye shall serue God vppon this mountayne. 13 Than sayde Moses vnto God: when I come vnto the childern of Israell and saye vnto them, the God of youre fathers hath sent me vnto you, ad they saye vnto me, what ys his name, what answere shall I geuethem? 14 Then sayde God vnto Moses: I wilbe what I wilbe: ad he sayde, this shalt thou saye vnto the children of Israel: I wilbe dyd send me to you.

The word “ehyeh” in Exodus 3:14 is the same in the earlier statement in v12, and here the translators give the future tense:
Exodus 3:12 (KJV): And he said, Certainly I will be with thee; and this shall be a token unto thee, that I have sent thee: When thou hast brought forth the people out of Egypt, ye shall serve God upon this mountain.
Not only does this fix the tense, it also introduces the concept that the Name of God is also associated with some future activity, and that activity was to be the deliverance of Israel out of Egypt and bringing them into the land of Israel.

I suggest that John 8:58 is NOT a direct quotation or allusion to Exodus 3:14.

Kind regards
Trevor
 
Why would you ask such a question instead of interacting with the point presented in the OP?

The main point presented in the OP is stated in the final sentence of the OP...

Indeed Christ is the I Am of the OT, the same I Am in Exodus 3:13 and Isaiah 44.

So I am interacting with the point presented in the OP by asking for clarification...

Is the I Am of the OT a subsistent, incommunicable subject of an intellectual nature?

In other words, is the I Am of the OT a "Person" (which TRINITARIANS like yourself define as "a subsistent, incommunicable subject of an intellectual nature"). So Jesus was claiming to be a divine Person.

Or, is the I Am of the OT a "Being" (a nature or essence). So Jesus was claiming to have divine nature.

Now on the other hand, YOUR post had NOTHING to do with the OP. :)
 
The main point presented in the OP is stated in the final sentence of the OP...

Yes, again I ask, why are you asking a meaningless question that is completely off topic?

So I am interacting with the point presented in the OP by asking for clarification...

Is the I Am of the OT a subsistent, incommunicable subject of an intellectual nature?

So, your purpose is to change the topic away from what Scripture proclaims onto your "person" pet peeve. Do you truly think such is a meaningful reply?

God Bless
 
So, your purpose is to change the topic away from what Scripture proclaims onto your "person" pet peeve. Do you truly think such is a meaningful reply?

The OP ends with the statement "Indeed Christ is the I Am of the OT, the same I Am in Exodus 3:13 and Isaiah 44."


So my purpose to get clarification...

Are those I Am verses showing that Jesus Christ is the ONE named Yahweh in the OT?

Or are those I Am verses showing that Jesus Christ is ONE OF THREE named Yahweh in the OT?



So I am asking for clarification of the primary point of the OP.

Whereas both of your posts on this thread have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with the OP. :)
 
The OP ends with the statement "Indeed Christ is the I Am of the OT, the same I Am in Exodus 3:13 and Isaiah 44."


So my purpose to get clarification...

You already had clarification. He used the title Christ. Trinitarians only use such in reference to the second person of the Trinity. Again, why are you wasting everyones time with this? Is your purpose to change the topic away from what Scripture proclaims onto your "person" pet peeve? Do you truly think such is a meaningful reply?

Are those I Am verses showing that Jesus Christ is the ONE named Yahweh in the OT?

Is the sky blue?

Or are those I Am verses showing that Jesus Christ is ONE OF THREE named Yahweh in the OT?

As if there is a meaningful difference in Trinitarianism. When are you going to stop trolling us?

So I am asking for clarification of the primary point of the OP.

No, you are trolling. You already knew the answer; you are simply trying to get some Trinitarian to misspeak.

Whereas both of your posts on this thread have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with the OP. :)

Yep, my replies are about showing off the vacuousness of your replies.

God Bless
 
Greetings civic,

I question why you leave out John 8:28 from your list, because in a matter of a few verses Jesus uses the same expression again:
John 8:24 (KJV): I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
John 8:28 (KJV): Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.
John 8:58 (KJV): Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

But when we look at John 8:28 we can see that Jesus is not claiming here to be Deity, but as the Son of man that he is utterly dependent upon God his Father. Even the KJV translators have given a different perspective by translating both John 8:24 and John 8:28 as “I am he” not “I AM”. This also calls in question if John 8:58 is correctly translated, as the same expression is used, but here the KJV translates as “I am”. I prefer “I am he” for each of these verses including John 8:58, and the three quotations are part of the theme in John’s Gospel as to whether Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God John 20:30-31.


The Name of God was revealed to Moses in the following terms:
Exodus 3:14-15 (KJV): 14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you. 15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.

Most translations and commentators accept the present tense “I am that I am”, but notice in the margin of the RV (or ASV) and RSV, an alternative is given “I will be that I will be” or “I will be what I will be”, showing that some modern scholars suggest this alternative reading. Although not popular it appears that this future tense is the correct translation. Not only modern scholars, Tyndale also translated this in the future tense.
Exodus 3:12-14 (Tyndale): 12 And he sayde: I wilbe with the. And this shalbe a token vnto the that I haue sent the: after that thou hast broughte the people out of Egipte, ye shall serue God vppon this mountayne. 13 Than sayde Moses vnto God: when I come vnto the childern of Israell and saye vnto them, the God of youre fathers hath sent me vnto you, ad they saye vnto me, what ys his name, what answere shall I geuethem? 14 Then sayde God vnto Moses: I wilbe what I wilbe: ad he sayde, this shalt thou saye vnto the children of Israel: I wilbe dyd send me to you.

The word “ehyeh” in Exodus 3:14 is the same in the earlier statement in v12, and here the translators give the future tense:
Exodus 3:12 (KJV): And he said, Certainly I will be with thee; and this shall be a token unto thee, that I have sent thee: When thou hast brought forth the people out of Egypt, ye shall serve God upon this mountain.
Not only does this fix the tense, it also introduces the concept that the Name of God is also associated with some future activity, and that activity was to be the deliverance of Israel out of Egypt and bringing them into the land of Israel.

I suggest that John 8:58 is NOT a direct quotation or allusion to Exodus 3:14.

Kind regards
Trevor
Those are some good points and Civic also always quotes John 8:24 without the context of the verse that it follows in context with and which is John 8:23 and therefore what Jesus was really saying in context, was that unless they believed that he was from above and not of this world, they would die in their sins.

That makes a world of difference regarding what he meant by what he said in verse 24, but Civic always quotes this out of context because, taken in its proper context, he cannot make it say what he wants it to say.

In fact, if you follow this right down to John 8:58, Jesus could have meant "before Abraham was (past tense), I am in the first person present tense, sent from above and not of this world to be lifted up as per verse 28 = "lifted up and crucified on the cross for the sins of all men".

Jesus also said what he did in verse 58 because they twisted his words when he said "your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day (that very day in which he would come unto Israel to die for their sins) and saw it and was glad".

Therefore he was speaking of that very day in their present tense, that was ordained and foreknown unto God "before Abraham was" and in which he would be sent from above and without the sin of this world, in order for him to be lifted up on the cross to die for not only the sins of Abraham's people but also those of the whole world.
 
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rod.ney

Active member
Those are some good points and Civic also always quotes John 8:24 without the context of the verse that it follows in context with and which is John 8:23 and therefore what Jesus was really saying in context, was that unless they believed that he was from above and not of this world, they would die in their sins.

That makes a world of difference regarding what he meant by what he said in verse 24, but Civic always quotes this out of context because, taken in its proper context, he cannot make it say what he wants it to say.

In fact, if you follow this right down to John 8:58, Jesus could have meant "before Abraham was (past tense), I am in the first person present tense, sent from above and not of this world to be lifted up as per verse 28 = "lifted up and crucified on the cross for the sins of all men".

Jesus also said what he did in verse 58 because they twisted his words when he said "your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day (that very day in which he would come unto Israel to die for their sins) and saw it and was glad".

Therefore he was speaking of that very day in their present tense, that was ordained and foreknown unto God "before Abraham was" and in which he would be sent from above and without the sin of this world, in order for him to be lifted up on the cross to die for not only the sins of Abraham's people but also those of the whole world.
Nope! Civic had the CONTEXT Spot on because the in context question to Jesus by the nonbelievers was that He ( Jesus ) was only about 30 years old and not the over thousands years old to have personally known Abraham! So yes Jesus eternally pre-existed as God the Word in John 1:1, THROUGH whom all things were created as per John 1:3 & Col.1:16! Then God the WORD became Flesh ( Incarnate ) as the God-Man in John 1:14! Yes God-Man because God the Word can NOT cease to still be God when He becomes the Man called Jesus Christ!
 
Nope! Civic had the CONTEXT Spot on because the in context question to Jesus by the nonbelievers was that He ( Jesus ) was only about 30 years old and not the over thousands years old to have personally known Abraham! So yes Jesus eternally pre-existed as God the Word in John 1:1, THROUGH whom all things were created as per John 1:3 & Col.1:16! Then God the WORD became Flesh ( Incarnate ) as the God-Man in John 1:14! Yes God-Man because God the Word can NOT cease to still be God when He becomes the Man called Jesus Christ!
Nope he didn't, for he always leaves the important context of John 8:23 out of it and only quotes John 8:24 and which when taken in the true context would mean, "unless you believe that I am from above and not of this world, you will die in your sins", that is the true context of verse 23-24 whether you like it or not.

Hey aren't you one of the many who voted for Donald J. Trump?


It makes sense that your churches would be so deceived by a man like this and that was Jesus' point when he said these words from Matthew 24 below.

"If it were possible even the very elect would be deceived, behold I told you in advance", for Jesus knew that the majority who would believe that they are true Christians and God's elect would be the most deceived among all men".

Matthew 24:24 King James Version

24 For there shall arise false Christs (false versions of Christ), and false prophets (who teach them), and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. 25 Behold, I have told you before.



Just like Paul said in 2 Thessalonians 2:11, "For this purpose God will send them strong delusion that they should believe a lie 12 and that they all might be damned, who love not the truth but take pleasure in what is not right".

By the way, while the Devil has deceived you in to believe that the mark of the beast will be a chip put under the skin, the actual mark of the beast is apostasy and you can see this right in the word in John 6:66, "from that time many of his disciples went back and followed him no more (apostasy)".

Revelation 13:18 This calls for wisdom. Let the person who has insight calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man. That number is 666.


The Bible was divided into its present number system by a man (it is the number of a man) and actually a Catholic Cardinal named "Stephan Langton" and therefore John being inspired by the Omniscient Spirit of God, wrote what he did in Revelation 13:18.

Now lets look at another verse by the same John and also inspired by the Holy Spirit, in 1 John 2:


18 Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour. 19 They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us (apostasy). For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.

Those who commit apostasy are not actually true believers either, but they have a sufficient knowledge of the truth to have known better than to believe the false doctrines that they are believing in and that is exactly the case with your trinitarian churches, for they left the truth many, many years ago.

However, being they read the Bible, they are not totally ignorant of the many verses that reveal that they are believing in false doctrine but instead of facing up to them by seeking God for the correct answers, they twist the verses to make them fit their false doctrines because they love those doctrines more than the truth.

Isaiah 66:6 King James Version

6 A voice of noise from the city, a voice from the temple, a voice of the Lord that rendereth recompence to his enemies.


The above is a prophecy about the coming judgment for the great whore Mystery Babylon who claims to be God's living Temple but really isn't at all and notice the Bible chapter and verse number once again "66:6".
 
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You already had clarification. He used the title Christ. Trinitarians only use such in reference to the second person of the Trinity.

I am aware of that. But I was not asking about the title "Christ", I was asking about the title "I Am" in the OT.

The OP ends with the statement "Indeed Christ is the I Am of the OT, the same I Am in Exodus 3:13 and Isaiah 44."

Are those I Am verses showing that Jesus Christ is the ONE named Yahweh in the OT?

Or are those I Am verses showing that Jesus Christ is ONE OF THREE named Yahweh in the OT?



Is your purpose to change the topic away from what Scripture proclaims onto your "person" pet peeve? Do you truly think such is a meaningful reply?

Actually, TRINITARIANS are the one who INSIST on using the word "Persons" in relation to God. The Athanasian Creed even goes so far as to say you are not saved if you don't.
 
I am aware of that. But I was not asking about the title "Christ", I was asking about the title "I Am" in the OT.

If you are aware of the use of Christ, then apply that knowledge for your clarification.


The OP ends with the statement "Indeed Christ is the I Am of the OT, the same I Am in Exodus 3:13 and Isaiah 44."

Are those I Am verses showing that Jesus Christ is the ONE named Yahweh in the OT?

Is the sky blue?

Or are those I Am verses showing that Jesus Christ is ONE OF THREE named Yahweh in the OT?

As if there is a meaningful difference in Trinitarianism. When are you going to stop trolling us

Actually, TRINITARIANS are the one who INSIST on using the word "Persons" in relation to God. The Athanasian Creed even goes so far as to say you are not saved if you don't.

You are very ignorant.

God Bless
 
12 I Am Sayings of Jesus, not 8 as most scholars discuss.


1. Bread

“I am the bread of life; he who comes to Me shall not hunger.” John 6:35

2. Light
“I am the light of the world; he who fallows Me shall not walk in the darkness, but shall have the light of life.” John 8:12

3. Gate
“I am the gate; if anyone enters through Me, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.” John 10:9

4. Good Shepherd
“I am the good shepherd; the good shepherd lays down His life for His sheep.” John 10:11

5. Resurrection and Life
“I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me shall live even if he dies.” John 11:25

6. Way, Truth, Life
“I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but through Me.” John 14:6

7. True vine
“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser.” John 15:1

8. I Am
unless you believe I Am He you will die in your sins” John 8:24

9. I Am
Before Abraham was born I AM- John 8:58

10, I Am the Alpha and Omega the Lord God Almighty. Revelatin 1:8

11. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.” Rev 22:13

12. I Am the First and the Last. Revelation 1:17-18, Revelation 2:8, Isaiah 44:6

Indeed Christ is the I Am of the OT, the same I Am in Exodus 3:13 and Isaiah 44.

hope this helps !!!
Yes, Jesus is the "I am" and there is only one I am and there is only one God therefore the Father and the Son are one and so are all those who are in Christ. God is a family in himself in a unified relationship and that is the oneness of God. :)

God bless you,

SeventhDay
 

rod.ney

Active member
Nope he didn't, for he always leaves the important context of John 8:23 out of it and only quotes John 8:24 and which when taken in the true context would mean, "unless you believe that I am from above and not of this world, you will die in your sins", that is the true context of verse 23-24 whether you like it or not.

Hey aren't you one of the many who voted for Donald J. Trump?


It makes sense that your churches would be so deceived by a man like this and that was Jesus' point when he said these words from Matthew 24 below.

"If it were possible even the very elect would be deceived, behold I told you in advance", for Jesus knew that the majority who would believe that they are true Christians and God's elect would be the most deceived among all men".

Matthew 24:24 King James Version

24 For there shall arise false Christs (false versions of Christ), and false prophets (who teach them), and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. 25 Behold, I have told you before.



Just like Paul said in 2 Thessalonians 2:11, "For this purpose God will send them strong delusion that they should believe a lie 12 and that they all might be damned, who love not the truth but take pleasure in what is not right".

By the way, while the Devil has deceived you in to believe that the mark of the beast will be a chip put under the skin, the actual mark of the beast is apostasy and you can see this right in the word in John 6:66, "from that time many of his disciples went back and followed him no more (apostasy)".

Revelation 13:18 This calls for wisdom. Let the person who has insight calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man. That number is 666.


The Bible was divided into its present number system by a man (it is the number of a man) and actually a Catholic Cardinal named "Stephan Langton" and therefore John being inspired by the Omniscient Spirit of God, wrote what he did in Revelation 13:18.

Now lets look at another verse by the same John and also inspired by the Holy Spirit, in 1 John 2:


18 Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour. 19 They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us (apostasy). For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.

Those who commit apostasy are not actually true believers either, but they have a sufficient knowledge of the truth to have known better than to believe the false doctrines that they are believing in and that is exactly the case with your trinitarian churches, for they left the truth many, many years ago.

However, being they read the Bible, they are not totally ignorant of the many verses that reveal that they are believing in false doctrine but instead of facing up to them by seeking God for the correct answers, they twist the verses to make them fit their false doctrines because they love those doctrines more than the truth.

Isaiah 66:6 King James Version

6 A voice of noise from the city, a voice from the temple, a voice of the Lord that rendereth recompence to his enemies.


The above is a prophecy about the coming judgment for the great whore Mystery Babylon who claims to be God's living Temple but really isn't at all and notice the Bible chapter and verse number once again "66:6".
FYI Jesus " Was God " the WORD with God in John 1:1 before He Became Flesh ( Incarnate ) as the God-Man then called Jesus in John 1:14! Thus He eternally pre-existed Abraham as the Great " I AM " ( God the Son called the WORD ) in Exodus 3:14 as He so told those unbelievers in John 8:58! So since scripture will NEVER contradict any other scriptures concerning who He is ( God the Son ), the verse you said Civic will not use ( John 8:23 )is in fact in context that He is God! Since He is BOTH fully God and Fully human as a Man, He can He can speak in the context of His Deity or His Humanity or Both! The one GOD of the scriptures is in FACT a TRINITY of Divine Persons, individually called the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit ( Matt.28:19 )! All things could not have been created through & by ( John 1:3 + Col.1:16 ) Him ( as the former WORD in John 1:1 ) if He were not God like the Father & Holy Spirit are! The Holy Spirit being lied to in Acts 5:3 is called God ( Theos ) in Acts 5:4! Theos the Father calls His Son ( Jesus Christ ) " Ho Theos " in Hebrews 1:8, after all the angels that were created through Him ( as God the Word ), worshiped Him in Hebrews 1:6! So yes indeed He was telling the unbelievers in John 8:58 that He was in Fact the " I AM " ( God ) that spoke to Moses in a burning bush in Exodus 3:14! The one GOD in Gen.1:26 said " US & Our " because He is a TRINITY ( FSHS )! Case closed! Yes I voted for Trump both times because Hillary is corrupt and Biden enriched his family by selling us out China and other countries! He did the Quid Pro Quo ( on record ) in Ukraine to keep corrupt company ( Buresma - SP? ), that his son was on the board of from getting investigated! Then the Media & Hi teck companies hid the Facts from Hunters lap top so Joe could win! Joe lied when he said he said he did not know any of his son's business! Joe is the Big guy that gets 10%!
 
FYI Jesus " Was God " the WORD with God in John 1:1 before He Became Flesh ( Incarnate ) as the God-Man then called Jesus in John 1:14! Thus He eternally pre-existed Abraham as the Great " I AM " ( God the Son called the WORD ) in Exodus 3:14 as He so told those unbelievers in John 8:58! So since scripture will NEVER contradict any other scriptures concerning who He is ( God the Son ), the verse you said Civic will not use ( John 8:23 )is in fact in context that He is God! Since He is BOTH fully God and Fully human as a Man, He can He can speak in the context of His Deity or His Humanity or Both! The one GOD of the scriptures is in FACT a TRINITY of Divine Persons, individually called the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit ( Matt.28:19 )! All things could not have been created through & by ( John 1:3 + Col.1:16 ) Him ( as the former WORD in John 1:1 ) if He were not God like the Father & Holy Spirit are! The Holy Spirit being lied to in Acts 5:3 is called God ( Theos ) in Acts 5:4! Theos the Father calls His Son ( Jesus Christ ) " Ho Theos " in Hebrews 1:8, after all the angels that were created through Him ( as God the Word ), worshiped Him in Hebrews 1:6! So yes indeed He was telling the unbelievers in John 8:58 that He was in Fact the " I AM " ( God ) that spoke to Moses in a burning bush in Exodus 3:14! The one GOD in Gen.1:26 said " US & Our " because He is a TRINITY ( FSHS )! Case closed! Yes I voted for Trump both times because Hillary is corrupt and Biden enriched his family by selling us out China and other countries! He did the Quid Pro Quo ( on record ) in Ukraine to keep corrupt company ( Buresma - SP? ), that his son was on the board of from getting investigated! Then the Media & Hi teck companies hid the Facts from Hunters lap top so Joe could win! Joe lied when he said he said he did not know any of his son's business! Joe is the Big guy that gets 10%!
I am not interested in your information Rod.ney, because you get your information from the same place that apostate Israel got their information and as Jesus told us in the below passage.


John 8:44 English Standard Version

44 You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

For instance below is one of the passages where apostate Israel accused Jesus of making himself equal unto God because he called himself the Son of God and called God his Father, so where in the OT did the Jews get this idea from Rod.ney, I will bet you cannot show proof of it from the OT?

John 10:31 The Jews picked up stones again to stone him. 32 Jesus answered them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you going to stone me?” 33 The Jews answered him, “It is not for a good work that we are going to stone you but for blasphemy, because you, being a man, make yourself God.” 34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I said, you are gods’? 35 If he called them gods to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be broken— 36 do you say of him whom the Father consecrated and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God? 37 If I am not doing the works of my Father, then do not believe me; 38 but if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me and I am in the Father.”

Now can you show me where in the OT that anyone being called God's Son ever meant that he was a literal Son of God's own ontology, substance and nature and therefore God himself or equal unto God Rod.ney?

What about in Psalm 2:7 where David said this of himself "I will declare the decree, Yahweh has said unto me (David), "You are my Son this day have I begotten you"?

Or what about where God spoke to David concerning his son Solomon in 2 Samuel 7:14 where God told him "He (Solomon) will be a Son unto me (Yahweh) and I (Yahweh) will be a Father unto him (Solomon)"?

Those Jews that accused Jesus of making himself equal unto God by calling himself God's Son in John 10:31-38, knew what the OT revealed about those called God's Son and they knew it referred to God's human heir to his throne and not to one being equal with God.

They knew it didn't refer to a literal Son of God's own ontology because there is no scriptures that support it to mean any such thing in their OT and you know it also Rod.ney.

So where are you getting your information from Rod.ney?

You are getting it from the same place they got theirs and which Jesus exposed also in following passage.

John 8:44 English Standard Version

44 You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

If you cannot show from the OT where the Jews got the idea that Jesus was committing blasphemy and making himself out to be God or equal unto God by calling himself God's Son and like God himself called David in Psalm 2:7 and also Solomon in 2 Samuel 7:14, then you are believing a lie to believe it.

Furthermore, then you are also lying and teaching a lie by teaching other people that to be called God's Son is to say that the one being called this is also God or equal unto God because the OT never taught that to be called "God's Son or to have God call someone their Father period.
 
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FYI Jesus " Was God " the WORD with God in John 1:1 before He Became Flesh ( Incarnate ) as the God-Man then called Jesus in John 1:14! Thus He eternally pre-existed Abraham as the Great " I AM " ( God the Son called the WORD ) in Exodus 3:14 as He so told those unbelievers in John 8:58! So since scripture will NEVER contradict any other scriptures concerning who He is ( God the Son ), the verse you said Civic will not use ( John 8:23 )is in fact in context that He is God! Since He is BOTH fully God and Fully human as a Man, He can He can speak in the context of His Deity or His Humanity or Both! The one GOD of the scriptures is in FACT a TRINITY of Divine Persons, individually called the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit ( Matt.28:19 )! All things could not have been created through & by ( John 1:3 + Col.1:16 ) Him ( as the former WORD in John 1:1 ) if He were not God like the Father & Holy Spirit are! The Holy Spirit being lied to in Acts 5:3 is called God ( Theos ) in Acts 5:4! Theos the Father calls His Son ( Jesus Christ ) " Ho Theos " in Hebrews 1:8, after all the angels that were created through Him ( as God the Word ), worshiped Him in Hebrews 1:6! So yes indeed He was telling the unbelievers in John 8:58 that He was in Fact the " I AM " ( God ) that spoke to Moses in a burning bush in Exodus 3:14! The one GOD in Gen.1:26 said " US & Our " because He is a TRINITY ( FSHS )! Case closed! Yes I voted for Trump both times because Hillary is corrupt and Biden enriched his family by selling us out China and other countries! He did the Quid Pro Quo ( on record ) in Ukraine to keep corrupt company ( Buresma - SP? ), that his son was on the board of from getting investigated! Then the Media & Hi teck companies hid the Facts from Hunters lap top so Joe could win! Joe lied when he said he said he did not know any of his son's business! Joe is the Big guy that gets 10%!
By the way, you needn't worry about Hillary being corrupt, and instead focus on how you yourself is being corrupted with the false doctrines that you believe in and for starters, your churches are involved in things that God never commissioned them to do in the first place and like attempting to legislate his morality to sinners who have no power to obey him.


The church wasn't commissioned to legislate morality to unbelievers and nor were they given the power to choose who would be put into power in worldly governments either and that is where you are making a big mistake and why you haven't been able to accomplish what you wanted with the abortion issue or the same sex marriage issue either.

For even if these issues were turned around for a time, they will not stay that way, for the cat is out of the bag now on both of these issues and the fault of why they are lies within your churches, for when you attempt to preach the law of God unto sinner, you end up making them want to disobey God more than they did prior to it and there are more of them than self righteous church goers Rod.ney.

For heaven sake just read Paul's words in Romans 7, for he reveals what happens when God's moral laws are applied to someone who is not a believer, for if Paul being a believer struggled with his obedience to God when falling back under trying to obey God by law and like he shows in this passage, what do you think it would be like for the sinners?

That is why you cannot legislate God's moral laws to sinners of America and expect them to do any better in obeying them either, for they are not going to ever.

That is why God did not commissioned his true church to preach the law or attempt to legislate it but rather to preach the good news gospel message instead and while his true saints show the law written upon their heart as a testimony unto the world and like they are suppose to instead of trying to ram it down the sinners throats like they always do.

Furthermore, if you knew your Bible like you should, you would have understood from Daniel chapters 2 and 4 and also from Jesus' words to his disciples in Acts 1:4-6, that the times and seasons for Kings and Kingdoms to be either put into power or removed from power, is in God's power alone and not yours or mine.

Oh for certain, God will often give apostate Christianity what they want, and like he did at first by allowing you to have Trump as your president, but he will also send a warning of his judgment along with it and which he indeed did by allowing this virus to have the control it has had to undo what Trump in his arrogance thought that he did.

Just read 1 Samuel 8, for this is what God told Israel when they rejected God as their King by wanting a human King like the other nations had and you can see what he warns them of for their disobedience and your churches are guilt of the same exact thing, for instead of letting God decide who he wants for America, your churches decided it for themselves instead.


The problem is and like usual, we don't know what we are doing on this issue because we cannot know a man's heart but God does know the hearts of all men and therefore he alone knows what is best for us or what is needed to correct us if we need correction.




For in no time flat, God allowing this virus into our country, has totally brought to nothing what we wanted in our selfish greed for Trump to do for us in our economy.

For just bringing more wealth into a greedy and selfish nation like America has become, will never make America Great but only a repentance from that selfishness and greed and mainly and especially the selfishness and greed within those who claim to know God with their lip service but don't obey his love commandments.
 
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rod.ney

Active member
By the way, you needn't worry about Hillary being corrupt, and instead focus on how you yourself is being corrupted with the false doctrines that you believe in and for starters, your churches are involved in things that God never commissioned them to do in the first place and like attempting to legislate his morality to sinners who have no power to obey him.


The church wasn't commissioned to legislate morality to unbelievers and nor were they given the power to choose who would be put into power in worldly governments either and that is where you are making a big mistake and why you haven't been able to accomplish what you wanted with the abortion issue or the same sex marriage issue either.

For even if these issues were turned around for a time, they will not stay that way, for the cat is out of the bag now on both of these issues and the fault of why they are lies within your churches, for when you attempt to preach the law of God unto sinner, you end up making them want to disobey God more than they did prior to it and there are more of them than self righteous church goers Rod.ney.

For heaven sake just read Paul's words in Romans 7, for he reveals what happens when God's moral laws are applied to someone who is not a believer, for if Paul being a believer struggled with his obedience to God when falling back under trying to obey God by law and like he shows in this passage, what do you think it would be like for the sinners?

That is why you cannot legislate God's moral laws to sinners of America and expect them to do any better in obeying them either, for they are not going to ever.

That is why God did not commissioned his true church to preach the law or attempt to legislate it but rather to preach the good news gospel message instead and while his true saints show the law written upon their heart as a testimony unto the world and like they are suppose to instead of trying to ram it down the sinners throats like they always do.

Furthermore, if you knew your Bible like you should, you would have understood from Daniel chapters 2 and 4 and also from Jesus' words to his disciples in Acts 1:4-6, that the times and seasons for Kings and Kingdoms to be either put into power or removed from power, is in God's power alone and not yours or mine.

Oh for certain, God will often give apostate Christianity what they want, and like he did at first by allowing you to have Trump as your president, but he will also send a warning of his judgment along with it and which he indeed did by allowing this virus to have the control it has had to undo what Trump in his arrogance thought that he did.

Just read 1 Samuel 8, for this is what God told Israel when they rejected God as their King by wanting a human King like the other nations had and you can see what he warns them of for their disobedience and your churches are guilt of the same exact thing, for instead of letting God decide who he wants for America, your churches decided it for themselves instead.


The problem is and like usual, we don't know what we are doing on this issue because we cannot know a man's heart but God does know the hearts of all men and therefore he alone knows what is best for us or what is needed to correct us if we need correction.




For in no time flat, God allowing this virus into our country, has totally brought to nothing what we wanted in our selfish greed for Trump to do for us in our economy.

For just bringing more wealth into a greedy and selfish nation like America has become, will never make America Great but only a repentance from that selfishness and greed and mainly and especially the selfishness and greed within those who claim to know God with their lip service but don't obey his love commandments.
FYI, it is You and NOT me that is corrupted by False Doctrines! I posted the scriptures " AS IS " and they ( As IS ) CONTRADICT your Twisting ( 2 Peter 3:16 ) of them! Jesus Christ is in Fact God the Word of John 1:1 in the Flesh John 1:14! He is still in the Flesh FOREVER since He Raised that dead body ( and Changed it to Immortal - 1 Cor.15:42-54 in conjunction with Philippians 3:21 ) as He so said He would do in John 2:19-22! He Said He was " I AM " ( God ) in Exodus 3:14 & John 8:58! Theos the Father BACKS that up in Hebrews 1:8 by calling Him " Ho Theos "! That is ( AS IS )! Thus you are the one corrupting those posted scriptures by adding your Twisted say so ( Man's word ) to it by telling us that Jesus & the Holy Spirit are NOT God like the Father is! Acts 5:4 calls the Holy Spirit being lied to in verse 3 " Theos " ( God )! So yes indeed the One GOD of the scriptures consists of those THREE Divine Persons called ( FSHS ) in Matt.28:19! Case closed on your Twisted view!
 
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