"I desire mercy ...... "

Slyzr

Well-known member
I don't see anything explaining what he meant.

Sigh .....

I thought it was a good scripture for a discussion.

If you do not want to discuss it then don't.

I clarified the 'big club' thingy in the OP.

You are free to disagre.

Thanks ....
 
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Simpletruther

Well-known member
Sigh .....

I thought it was a good scripture for a discussion.

If you do not want to discuss it then don't.

I clarified the 'big club' thingy in the OP.

You are free to disagre.

Thanks ....
I like discussing. But I would like to know some point you are trying to make in order to discuss it.
Seems like you want me to discuss but not yourself.
And i have no idea what "big club" refers to.


Do you have any ideas about what Jesus meant in that passage? Will you share it?
 

HealTheLand

Active member
Psalm 145:18
The LORD is near to all who call on Him, to all who call out to Him in truth.

John 4:23
But a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and in truth, for the Father is seeking such as these to worship Him.

Amplified Bible
And if you had only known what this statement means, ‘I DESIRE COMPASSION [for those in distress], AND NOT [animal] SACRIFICE,’ you would not have condemned the innocent.

1 Samuel 16:7
…6When they arrived, Samuel saw Eliab and said, “Surely here before the LORD is His anointed.” 7But the LORD said to Samuel, “Do not consider his appearance or height, for I have rejected him; the LORD does not see as man does. For man sees the outward appearance, but the LORD sees the heart.” 8Then Jesse called Abinadab and presented him to Samuel, who said, “The LORD has not chosen this one either.”…

God looks on the heart -- not the outward appearance of things. The sacrifice that many / most speak of - talk about -- is Outward -- as are all theologies and Arguments about the Bible and about God and Christ.

But God does not wish for the Outward, but for the spirit / heart of Man to become correct -- in all of it's ways.
 
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Josheb

Well-known member
Is this applicable to big club Calvinists? (those carrying a 'big club')

New American Standard Bible
Now go and learn what this means: ‘I DESIRE COMPASSION, RATHER THAN SACRIFICE,’ for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners.”
Is it being suggested there are Calvinists who "club" others?








Good morning everyone. I signed in this morning intending to address one of the points in poster @Johnnybgood's recent op in which five reasons for never being a Calvinist was asserted. The problem is I can't find the op. I searched for ops by the poster and zilch resulted. I searched key words used in the thread and nothing came up. I searched my own history and not a single post I made in that op shows in my history! Was the op deleted? Was I placed on ignore so the op is not visible to me? Anyone know what's up? If the op is still up maybe someone can link me to it. Thx
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
Psalm 145:18
The LORD is near to all who call on Him, to all who call out to Him in truth.

John 4:23
But a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and in truth, for the Father is seeking such as these to worship Him.

Amplified Bible
And if you had only known what this statement means, ‘I DESIRE COMPASSION [for those in distress], AND NOT [animal] SACRIFICE,’ you would not have condemned the innocent.

1 Samuel 16:7
…6When they arrived, Samuel saw Eliab and said, “Surely here before the LORD is His anointed.” 7But the LORD said to Samuel, “Do not consider his appearance or height, for I have rejected him; the LORD does not see as man does. For man sees the outward appearance, but the LORD sees the heart.” 8Then Jesse called Abinadab and presented him to Samuel, who said, “The LORD has not chosen this one either.”…

God looks on the heart -- not the outward appearance of things. The sacrifice that many / most speak of - talk about -- is Outward -- as are all theologies and Arguments about the Bible and about God and Christ.

But God does not wish for the Outward, but for the spirit / heart of Man to become correct -- in all of it's ways.
Do you think God looks upon the Uncircumcised heart and the Circumcised Heart the same way, and sees the same thing?
 
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ReverendRV

Well-known member
Is it being suggested there are Calvinists who "club" others?








Good morning everyone. I signed in this morning intending to address one of the points in poster @Johnnybgood's recent op in which five reasons for never being a Calvinist was asserted. The problem is I can't find the op. I searched for ops by the poster and zilch resulted. I searched key words used in the thread and nothing came up. I searched my own history and not a single post I made in that op shows in my history! Was the op deleted? Was I placed on ignore so the op is not visible to me? Anyone know what's up? If the op is still up maybe someone can link me to it. Thx
I think the Moderators noticed Posters calling Johnny 'Civic', and investigated it to see if it is true...

We may find out in about a week; or never...
 
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Josheb

Well-known member
I think the Moderators noticed Posters calling Johnny 'Civic', and investigated it to see if it is true...

we may find out in about a week; or never...
???

What is the problem with Calling Johnny, "Civic"? I liked civic's posts, even when I disagreed I almost always benefitted from the reading. Is it thought he was posing? misleading others by the use of two handles? Was civ banned and somehow managed to re-enter masquerading under another avatar? I'd be surprised because johnny was synergist and I recall civ being monergist :unsure:.

If so, then I am sad :cry:


Don't know why that warranted taking down the threads. Anyway, thanks for cluing me in.







Cheeez, what you folks are up to while I'm asleep.....
 

Slyzr

Well-known member
I like discussing. But I would like to know some point you are trying to make in order to discuss it.
Seems like you want me to discuss but not yourself.
And i have no idea what "big club" refers to.


Do you have any ideas about what Jesus meant in that passage? Will you share it?

Mercy seems fairly important.
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
???

What is the problem with Calling Johnny, "Civic"? I liked civic's posts, even when I disagreed I almost always benefitted from the reading. Is it thought he was posing? misleading others by the use of two handles? Was civ banned and somehow managed to re-enter masquerading under another avatar? I'd be surprised because johnny was synergist and I recall civ being monergist :unsure:.

If so, then I am sad :cry:


Don't know why that warranted taking down the threads. Anyway, thanks for cluing me in.







Cheeez, what you folks are up to while I'm asleep.....
Johnny was Synergist??

It's against the rules to have more than one Profile....
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
???

What is the problem with Calling Johnny, "Civic"? I liked civic's posts, even when I disagreed I almost always benefitted from the reading. Is it thought he was posing? misleading others by the use of two handles? Was civ banned and somehow managed to re-enter masquerading under another avatar? I'd be surprised because johnny was synergist and I recall civ being monergist :unsure:.

If so, then I am sad :cry:


Don't know why that warranted taking down the threads. Anyway, thanks for cluing me in.







Cheeez, what you folks are up to while I'm asleep.....
I learned a lot because of his change too. His Thread on the Wrath of God being poured, or not poured out on Christ; sharpened me a lot...

I must admit that I knew Civic was Johnny for a long time; but I promised him I wouldn't say anything. At the beginning, it didn't seem like that big of a deal to me. But as time went by, I started regretting it; because imo he changed in a bad way...

He's able to Lurk while suspended, and can read everything that's said here...
 
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Josheb

Well-known member
Address the OP.

What do you think Jesus meant?

I don't know. Do you?

Mercy seems fairly important.
Do either of you think the mercy Jesus required was mercy from the sinner being saved? Since this "mercy" is juxtaposed against sacrifice and the "sacrifice" would seem to be that of the Mosaic/Levitical system it does seem that the mercy in question is also that of the sinner being saved, but does the larger text support those inferences? Does the whole of scripture?

I ask because most of us would agree God needs nothing of the flesh from the sinner and since the yet=to=be saved sinner does not have the Spirit all he has is the flesh.

Therefore, perhaps neither the mercy nor the sacrifice required are from the one dead in sin.

It would not seem to be anything but the mercy/compassion and/or sacrifice of the sinner since Jesus is quoting from Hosea.

Hosea 6:4-11
What shall I do with you, O Ephraim? What shall I do with you, O Judah? For your loyalty is like a morning cloud and like the dew which goes away early. Therefore, I have hewn them in pieces by the prophets; I have slain them by the words of My mouth; And the judgments on you are like the light that goes forth. For I delight in mercy rather than sacrifice, and in the knowledge of God rather than burnt offerings. But like Adam they have transgressed the covenant; There they have dealt treacherously against Me. Gilead is a city of wrongdoers, Tracked with bloody footprints. And as raiders wait for a man, so a band of priests murder on the way to Shechem; surely they have committed crime. In the house of Israel I have seen a horrible thing; Ephraim's harlotry is there; Israel has defiled itself. Also, O Judah, there is a harvest appointed for you, When I restore the fortunes of My people.

Hosea was not the first God had broach this matter. We also find similar sentiments expressed through Samuel, David, Solomon, and Isaiah. Hosea happens to be the closest verbatim. On the two occasions in Matthew where Jesus quotes the prophet, he is speaking to Jews who presumably know his reference but in Mt. 12:7's reference he tells them they do NOT understand the prophet's meaning.


I ask these things because it is God who both showed the mercy and made the sacrifice, not the sinner. Is that not what He required?



Not sure that has anything to do with "big club Calvinists," though.
 

Slyzr

Well-known member
Do either of you think the mercy Jesus required was mercy from the sinner being saved? Since this "mercy" is juxtaposed against sacrifice and the "sacrifice" would seem to be that of the Mosaic/Levitical system it does seem that the mercy in question is also that of the sinner being saved, but does the larger text support those inferences? Does the whole of scripture?

I ask because most of us would agree God needs nothing of the flesh from the sinner and since the yet=to=be saved sinner does not have the Spirit all he has is the flesh.

Therefore, perhaps neither the mercy nor the sacrifice required are from the one dead in sin.

It would not seem to be anything but the mercy/compassion and/or sacrifice of the sinner since Jesus is quoting from Hosea.

Hosea 6:4-11
What shall I do with you, O Ephraim? What shall I do with you, O Judah? For your loyalty is like a morning cloud and like the dew which goes away early. Therefore, I have hewn them in pieces by the prophets; I have slain them by the words of My mouth; And the judgments on you are like the light that goes forth. For I delight in mercy rather than sacrifice, and in the knowledge of God rather than burnt offerings. But like Adam they have transgressed the covenant; There they have dealt treacherously against Me. Gilead is a city of wrongdoers, Tracked with bloody footprints. And as raiders wait for a man, so a band of priests murder on the way to Shechem; surely they have committed crime. In the house of Israel I have seen a horrible thing; Ephraim's harlotry is there; Israel has defiled itself. Also, O Judah, there is a harvest appointed for you, When I restore the fortunes of My people.

Hosea was not the first God had broach this matter. We also find similar sentiments expressed through Samuel, David, Solomon, and Isaiah. Hosea happens to be the closest verbatim. On the two occasions in Matthew where Jesus quotes the prophet, he is speaking to Jews who presumably know his reference but in Mt. 12:7's reference he tells them they do NOT understand the prophet's meaning.


I ask these things because it is God who both showed the mercy and made the sacrifice, not the sinner. Is that not what He required?



Not sure that has anything to do with "big club Calvinists," though.

Good questions.

Does this apply?

2Early in the morning He went back into the temple courts.a All the people came to Him, and He sat down to teach them. 3The scribes and Pharisees, however, brought to Him a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before them 4and said, “Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. 5In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such a woman. So what do You say?”

6They said this to test Him, in order to have a basis for accusing Him. But Jesus bent down and began to write on the ground with His finger.

7When they continued to question Him, He straightened up and said to them, “Let him who is without sin among you be the first to cast a stone at her.” 8And again He bent down and wrote on the ground.

9When they heard this,b they began to go away one by one, beginning with the older ones, until only Jesus was left, with the woman standing there. 10Then Jesus straightened upc and asked her, “Woman, where are your accusers?d Has no one condemned you?”

11“No one, Lord,” she answered.

“Then neither do I condemn you,” Jesus declared. “Now go and sin no more.”
 
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