I don't get conservative Methodists in the UMC.

e v e

Super Member
Regarding swine and shellfish, Jesus declared all foods clean, so from the very beginning of the Church it's remained that way:

"Do you not see that whatever goes into a person from outside cannot defile him, since it enters not his heart but his stomach, and is expelled?” (Thus he declared all foods clean.)" (Mark 7:18-19 ESV)

Regarding Sunday as the Sabbath, that's been the custom since the very beginning of the Church also and hasn't changed. Justin Martyr wrote in the 100s AD:

"Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Savior on the same day rose from the dead" (Justin Martyr, First Apology, ~130 AD)

About usury, the Church has never allowed it in the past and still doesn't allow it now.
its a bit of a contextual stretch your using christ to discuss eating swine etc. Im too tired to spell it out with footnotes, not that my posts even get read.

Did you know justin martyr was a bit platonistic? trying to devise things re: His Spirit and Trinity so the christian and platonic model matched. I was just reading a book I downloaded on scribd on irenaeus and some journal essays on irenaeus, justin, theophilus last night.. it’s been my primary reading lately since I am learning about His hands, a concept those three discuss. It’s valid and mentioned in OT but What’s tricky is extricating it from plato (via justin who inserts the Greek version.)
 

e v e

Super Member
^^^ of course i don’t take the author as correct in everything. Reading such a book involves going to scripture too - and mainly. But the historical detail helps.
 

e v e

Super Member
about the greek named days of the week:

What God wants is not ritual obsessed sons who are pharisaical about days of worship in this temporal situation.

His rest is our Change… and a day of rest for us is to remember Him. A day we give to Him, not Caesar.


The catholic roman form turned everything into rituals.
 

HillsboroMom

Active member
Thank you, but you seem to miss my point. Calling people who reject Jesus "retrobate" is an accurate theological description of their state before God. Calling people "evil" is an unwarranted act of condemnation towards another person.. The difference is in the viewpoint, personal versus what God thinks, as revealed in the Bible.
I think you missed my point.

I have no problem with you calling people "retrobate" if and when they reject Jesus.

I have a problem if and when you accuse people of rejecting Jesus when they haven't.
 

John t

Super Member
I have a problem if and when you accuse people of rejecting Jesus when they haven't.

Since we really do not know their heart, that presents a degree of difficulty, eh?

However, it is not wrong to hold their posts up as sort of a "litmus test" and make a reasonable conclusion based upon those pieces of evidence. If that person hates Jesus, their hatred will show up in their writings. Really, it is not too hard to determine.
 

e v e

Super Member
john 8 “47Whoever belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.”
 

John t

Super Member
The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.”
In other words, the poster to whom you aimed your above zinger ^^^^ is not saved because s/he does not do as you say should be done. Kinda shallow evaluation, me thinks.
 

e v e

Super Member
In other words, the poster to whom you aimed your above zinger ^^^^ is not saved because s/he does not do as you say should be done. Kinda shallow evaluation, me thinks.
i wasn’t talking about the poster in my long post which i’m assuming you are referring to. i was complimenting your post and that you listen to Him and had discernment about that church intrusion. what zinger do you mean? im confused now.
 

e v e

Super Member
the quote i posted was not directed to a poster. it was a continuation of my longer post.

so much for the internet.
 

HillsboroMom

Active member
Since we really do not know their heart, that presents a degree of difficulty, eh?

However, it is not wrong to hold their posts up as sort of a "litmus test" and make a reasonable conclusion based upon those pieces of evidence. If that person hates Jesus, their hatred will show up in their writings. Really, it is not too hard to determine.
Exactly.

Which is why I held your post up as a litmus test. When you judge the heart of every person who is liberal, and assume they reject Jesus, without knowing their heart, you have put yourself in the place of God. This is, by definition, original sin.
 

HillsboroMom

Active member
In other words, the poster to whom you aimed your above zinger ^^^^ is not saved because s/he does not do as you say should be done. Kinda shallow evaluation, me thinks.

Ummm, it's a quote from Scripture. To call Scripture "shallow" is a dangerous thing.

I don't know that eve was necessarily aiming that quote as a "zinger" at anyone. Maybe she was, maybe she wasn't.

Again, you assume she was, and accuse her, without knowing. From where I sit, she was simply quoting Scripture. Your actions are dangerous.
 

Leatherneck0311

Well-known member
Begging your pardon but you are calling all liberals evil, and that is flat-out wrong to do so.

The fire may have have begun as you stated, but the absence of evidence presented in your short post cannot be the basis for continued rumor mongering.

In a church I pastored below the Mason-Dixon Line we had some satanists break into the church and painted demonic runes inside of the organ using grape juice mixed with urine in order to make a demonic curse. I saw both the pictures of the fresh damage, and I saw the remnants of the stains remaining in the sound board in the back.

As I left, someone from a church in our denomination told me that there was a couple who were very involved in the KKK. That was confirmed by a vision given by Holy Spirit while visiting the family

Can you see the difference in what you wrote? You relied on third-hand information to make a curse on all liberals. I wrote things that I personally observed, and which actually happened.

Theologically speaking God loves all liberals, and Satanists, and it is not our job to condemn another human made in the image of God. On the other hand both Liberals and Satanists are reprobates because they despise the offer of free salvation through Jesus Christ. But that never gives Christians the right to curse them by saying that they are evil people.
Is a reprobate evil ? Are satanist evil ?
 

e v e

Super Member
Ummm, it's a quote from Scripture. To call Scripture "shallow" is a dangerous thing.

I don't know that eve was necessarily aiming that quote as a "zinger" at anyone. Maybe she was, maybe she wasn't.

Again, you assume she was, and accuse her, without knowing. From where I sit, she was simply quoting Scripture. Your actions are dangerous.
in fairness to john, i placed the quote there and did not link it to my last longer post right before that one… losing its context. then there were other posts.. and it logically makes sense I could have replied to one of those.

i wish he said, wait, would eve throw out zingers? since i don’t. but still it was my fault for not being clear as to what i referred. i’m sorry.
 

e v e

Super Member
I read many of your posts!
blush.. well then you probably know they aren’t well liked. the main thing i’m thinking about was in my longer post above.

because the Self can say right words yet does not care and the soul is left out of the picture by that.

christ did not say by repeating theology others will know we are of Christ (or, come to Christ!)

He said, by your love “all people will know that you are My disciples: if you have love for one another.”
 

HillsboroMom

Active member
Is a reprobate evil ? Are satanist evil ?
I think we need to be careful when we label people "evil." We can name behaviors, even beliefs, "evil," but that doesn't mean the person who does them or thinks them is evil.

All people are children of God, part of God's creation.

The most vile person I can think of is Hitler. He did evil things. Did God make him evil? If not, then did God not make him? If God made him good, then he is not evil. He is a child of God who did evil things by his own free will.
 

John t

Super Member
Is a reprobate evil ? Are satanist evil ?

I believe you may be conflating two different things. Here's why:

The word "evil" implies that the person continually does evil. A good example from Scripture is Sodom & Gomorrah.

Genesis 6:. 3 And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years. 4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown. 5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. 6 And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

Therefore to say that liberals are evil does not come close to the ad hominem of calling liberals evil. When doing that, you are making a theological evaluation on a person created uniquely in the image of God, solely based upon your (generic usage) personal dislike of his political beliefs. From a Scriptural viewpoint, that is not permitted, and I can say that because by definition, sin is an affront against God.

Again, by definition, a Satanist has rejected the free gift of salvation only through Jesus Christ. Therefore IMO, the person is reprobate

Jamison Fawcett & Brown say this about that passage:

Genesis 6:5:
Verse 5. The wickedness of man was great] What an awful character does God give of the inhabitants of the antediluvian world!​
1. They were flesh, (Ge 6:3,) wholly sensual, the desires of the mind overwhelmed and lost in the desires of the flesh,
their souls no longer discerning their high destiny, but ever minding earthly things, so that they were sensualized, brutalized,​
and become flesh; incarnated so as not to retain God in their knowledge, and they lived, seeking their portion in this life.​
2. They were in a state of wickedness. All was corrupt within, and all unrighteous without; neither the science nor practice of​
religion existed. Piety was gone, and every form of sound words had disappeared.​
3. This wickedness was great rabbah, "was multiplied;" it was continually increasing and multiplying increase by increase, so that the whole earth was corrupt before God, and was filled with violence, (Ge 6:11;) profligacy among the lower, and cruelty and oppression among the higher classes, being only predominant.​
4. All the imaginations of their thoughts were evil-the very first embryo of every idea, the figment of every thought, the very materials out of which perception, conception, and ideas were formed, were all evil; the fountain which produced them, with every thought, purpose, wish, desire, and motive, was incurably poisoned.​
5. All these were evil without any mixture of good-the Spirit of God which strove with them was continually resisted, so that evil had its sovereign​
sway.​
6. They were evil continually-there was no interval of good, no moment allowed for serious reflection, no holy purpose, no righteous act. What a finished picture of a fallen soul! Such a picture as God alone, who searches the heart and tries the spirit, could possibly give.​
7. To complete the whole, God represents himself as repenting because he had made them, and as grieved at the heart because of their iniquities! Had not these been voluntary transgressions, crimes which they might have avoided, had they not grieved and quenched the Spirit of God, could he speak of them in the manner he does here?​
8. So incensed is the most holy and the most merciful God, that he is determined to destroy the work of his hands: And the Lord said, I will​
destroy man whom I have created; Ge 6:7. How great must the evil have been, and how provoking the transgressions, which obliged the​
most compassionate God, for the vindication of his own glory, to form this awful purpose! Fools make a mock at sin, but none except​
fools.​



Reprobate mind:
The phrase “reprobate mind” is found in Romans 1:28 in reference to those whom God has rejected as godless and wicked. They “suppress the truth by their wickedness,” and it is upon these people that the wrath of God rests (Romans 1:18). The Greek word translated “reprobate” in the New Testament is adokimos, which means literally “unapproved, that is, rejected; by implication, worthless (literally or morally).”

Paul describes two men named Jannes and Jambres as those who “resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith" (2 Timothy 3:8). Here the reprobation is regarding the resistance to the truth because of corrupt minds. In Titus, Paul also refers to those whose works are reprobate: “They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate” (Titus 1:16). Therefore, the reprobate mind is one that is corrupt and worthless.

As we can see in the verses above, people who are classified as having a reprobate mind have some knowledge of God and perhaps know of His commandments. However, they live impure lives and have very little desire to please God. Those who have reprobate minds live corrupt and selfish lives. Sin is justified and acceptable to them. The reprobates are those whom God has rejected and has left to their own devices.

from https://www.gotquestions.org/reprobate-mind.html

Can you now see the differences?
 
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