I don't get conservative Methodists in the UMC.

John t

Super Member
The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.”
In other words, the poster to whom you aimed your above zinger ^^^^ is not saved because s/he does not do as you say should be done. Kinda shallow evaluation, me thinks.
 

HillsboroMom

Active member
Since we really do not know their heart, that presents a degree of difficulty, eh?

However, it is not wrong to hold their posts up as sort of a "litmus test" and make a reasonable conclusion based upon those pieces of evidence. If that person hates Jesus, their hatred will show up in their writings. Really, it is not too hard to determine.
Exactly.

Which is why I held your post up as a litmus test. When you judge the heart of every person who is liberal, and assume they reject Jesus, without knowing their heart, you have put yourself in the place of God. This is, by definition, original sin.
 

HillsboroMom

Active member
In other words, the poster to whom you aimed your above zinger ^^^^ is not saved because s/he does not do as you say should be done. Kinda shallow evaluation, me thinks.

Ummm, it's a quote from Scripture. To call Scripture "shallow" is a dangerous thing.

I don't know that eve was necessarily aiming that quote as a "zinger" at anyone. Maybe she was, maybe she wasn't.

Again, you assume she was, and accuse her, without knowing. From where I sit, she was simply quoting Scripture. Your actions are dangerous.
 

Leatherneck0311

Well-known member
Begging your pardon but you are calling all liberals evil, and that is flat-out wrong to do so.

The fire may have have begun as you stated, but the absence of evidence presented in your short post cannot be the basis for continued rumor mongering.

In a church I pastored below the Mason-Dixon Line we had some satanists break into the church and painted demonic runes inside of the organ using grape juice mixed with urine in order to make a demonic curse. I saw both the pictures of the fresh damage, and I saw the remnants of the stains remaining in the sound board in the back.

As I left, someone from a church in our denomination told me that there was a couple who were very involved in the KKK. That was confirmed by a vision given by Holy Spirit while visiting the family

Can you see the difference in what you wrote? You relied on third-hand information to make a curse on all liberals. I wrote things that I personally observed, and which actually happened.

Theologically speaking God loves all liberals, and Satanists, and it is not our job to condemn another human made in the image of God. On the other hand both Liberals and Satanists are reprobates because they despise the offer of free salvation through Jesus Christ. But that never gives Christians the right to curse them by saying that they are evil people.
Is a reprobate evil ? Are satanist evil ?
 

HillsboroMom

Active member
Is a reprobate evil ? Are satanist evil ?
I think we need to be careful when we label people "evil." We can name behaviors, even beliefs, "evil," but that doesn't mean the person who does them or thinks them is evil.

All people are children of God, part of God's creation.

The most vile person I can think of is Hitler. He did evil things. Did God make him evil? If not, then did God not make him? If God made him good, then he is not evil. He is a child of God who did evil things by his own free will.
 

John t

Super Member
Is a reprobate evil ? Are satanist evil ?

I believe you may be conflating two different things. Here's why:

The word "evil" implies that the person continually does evil. A good example from Scripture is Sodom & Gomorrah.

Genesis 6:. 3 And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years. 4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown. 5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. 6 And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

Therefore to say that liberals are evil does not come close to the ad hominem of calling liberals evil. When doing that, you are making a theological evaluation on a person created uniquely in the image of God, solely based upon your (generic usage) personal dislike of his political beliefs. From a Scriptural viewpoint, that is not permitted, and I can say that because by definition, sin is an affront against God.

Again, by definition, a Satanist has rejected the free gift of salvation only through Jesus Christ. Therefore IMO, the person is reprobate

Jamison Fawcett & Brown say this about that passage:

Genesis 6:5:
Verse 5. The wickedness of man was great] What an awful character does God give of the inhabitants of the antediluvian world!​
1. They were flesh, (Ge 6:3,) wholly sensual, the desires of the mind overwhelmed and lost in the desires of the flesh,
their souls no longer discerning their high destiny, but ever minding earthly things, so that they were sensualized, brutalized,​
and become flesh; incarnated so as not to retain God in their knowledge, and they lived, seeking their portion in this life.​
2. They were in a state of wickedness. All was corrupt within, and all unrighteous without; neither the science nor practice of​
religion existed. Piety was gone, and every form of sound words had disappeared.​
3. This wickedness was great rabbah, "was multiplied;" it was continually increasing and multiplying increase by increase, so that the whole earth was corrupt before God, and was filled with violence, (Ge 6:11;) profligacy among the lower, and cruelty and oppression among the higher classes, being only predominant.​
4. All the imaginations of their thoughts were evil-the very first embryo of every idea, the figment of every thought, the very materials out of which perception, conception, and ideas were formed, were all evil; the fountain which produced them, with every thought, purpose, wish, desire, and motive, was incurably poisoned.​
5. All these were evil without any mixture of good-the Spirit of God which strove with them was continually resisted, so that evil had its sovereign​
sway.​
6. They were evil continually-there was no interval of good, no moment allowed for serious reflection, no holy purpose, no righteous act. What a finished picture of a fallen soul! Such a picture as God alone, who searches the heart and tries the spirit, could possibly give.​
7. To complete the whole, God represents himself as repenting because he had made them, and as grieved at the heart because of their iniquities! Had not these been voluntary transgressions, crimes which they might have avoided, had they not grieved and quenched the Spirit of God, could he speak of them in the manner he does here?​
8. So incensed is the most holy and the most merciful God, that he is determined to destroy the work of his hands: And the Lord said, I will​
destroy man whom I have created; Ge 6:7. How great must the evil have been, and how provoking the transgressions, which obliged the​
most compassionate God, for the vindication of his own glory, to form this awful purpose! Fools make a mock at sin, but none except​
fools.​



Reprobate mind:
The phrase “reprobate mind” is found in Romans 1:28 in reference to those whom God has rejected as godless and wicked. They “suppress the truth by their wickedness,” and it is upon these people that the wrath of God rests (Romans 1:18). The Greek word translated “reprobate” in the New Testament is adokimos, which means literally “unapproved, that is, rejected; by implication, worthless (literally or morally).”

Paul describes two men named Jannes and Jambres as those who “resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith" (2 Timothy 3:8). Here the reprobation is regarding the resistance to the truth because of corrupt minds. In Titus, Paul also refers to those whose works are reprobate: “They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate” (Titus 1:16). Therefore, the reprobate mind is one that is corrupt and worthless.

As we can see in the verses above, people who are classified as having a reprobate mind have some knowledge of God and perhaps know of His commandments. However, they live impure lives and have very little desire to please God. Those who have reprobate minds live corrupt and selfish lives. Sin is justified and acceptable to them. The reprobates are those whom God has rejected and has left to their own devices.

from https://www.gotquestions.org/reprobate-mind.html

Can you now see the differences?
 

shnarkle

Well-known member
I think we need to be careful when we label people "evil." We can name behaviors, even beliefs, "evil," but that doesn't mean the person who does them or thinks them is evil.

All people are children of God, part of God's creation.

The most vile person I can think of is Hitler. He did evil things. Did God make him evil? If not, then did God not make him? If God made him good, then he is not evil. He is a child of God who did evil things by his own free will.
Can wolves become sheep, or tares become wheat through their will or effort? I doubt it. It is not God who sows tares into a field of wheat, but Monsanto, the evil one.
 

John t

Super Member
i wasn’t talking about the poster in my long post which i’m assuming you are referring to
I take your word at that. Nevertheless it is not wrong for me to state that the syntax originally led me to that belief, which you said was in error
i wish he said, wait, would eve throw out zingers? since i don’t. but still it was my fault for not being clear as to what i referred. i’m sorry.

Both of us now move on from that false conclusion
 
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Cynthia

Active member
Begging your pardon but you are calling all liberals evil, and that is flat-out wrong to do so.

The fire may have have begun as you stated, but the absence of evidence presented in your short post cannot be the basis for continued rumor mongering.

In a church I pastored below the Mason-Dixon Line we had some satanists break into the church and painted demonic runes inside of the organ using grape juice mixed with urine in order to make a demonic curse. I saw both the pictures of the fresh damage, and I saw the remnants of the stains remaining in the sound board in the back.

As I left, someone from a church in our denomination told me that there was a couple who were very involved in the KKK. That was confirmed by a vision given by Holy Spirit while visiting the family

Can you see the difference in what you wrote? You relied on third-hand information to make a curse on all liberals. I wrote things that I personally observed, and which actually happened.

Theologically speaking God loves all liberals, and Satanists, and it is not our job to condemn another human made in the image of God. On the other hand both Liberals and Satanists are reprobates because they despise the offer of free salvation through Jesus Christ. But that never gives Christians the right to curse them by saying that they are evil people.
Cynthia earlier said: The liberal element in their church were believed to have set the church sanctuary on fire, by heaping all bibles and hymnals in the middle of the room, adding lighter fluid. The Heat and Air was turned on (it is always shut off during the week) so that it would circulate the flaming material. There had been an unsuccessful attempt to allow homosexual marriage etc, which the small church voted down. There was a legal battle which they eventually won and were allowed to retain the burned out building. Many of the same members continued to attend but it was no longer a Presbyterian church. They had a website at that time that showed the photos taken of the damage. These liberals are not God's people. They are out to destroy the church and effectively are doing so by their liberal policies, which destroys the faith.
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You misquoted me. I never called all liberals evil, I never even used the word evil. I specifically spoke about The liberal element in their church. (bolded) These (bolded) are the ones out to destroy the church.
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I never cursed anyone. The liberal element who tried to divide the church, bring in sinful practices, tried to steal the church property in court, and left the congregation were most likely the ones who set the church on fire. Third hand or not. That is what happened.
Perhaps your definition of liberals is different from mine.
But I'm not here to discuss political views. I'm here to discuss biblical views, that homosexual sin does not belong in the church.
 

Cynthia

Active member
Begging your pardon but you are calling all liberals evil, and that is flat-out wrong to do so.

The fire may have have begun as you stated, but the absence of evidence presented in your short post cannot be the basis for continued rumor mongering.

In a church I pastored below the Mason-Dixon Line we had some satanists break into the church and painted demonic runes inside of the organ using grape juice mixed with urine in order to make a demonic curse. I saw both the pictures of the fresh damage, and I saw the remnants of the stains remaining in the sound board in the back.

As I left, someone from a church in our denomination told me that there was a couple who were very involved in the KKK. That was confirmed by a vision given by Holy Spirit while visiting the family

Can you see the difference in what you wrote? You relied on third-hand information to make a curse on all liberals. I wrote things that I personally observed, and which actually happened.

Theologically speaking God loves all liberals, and Satanists, and it is not our job to condemn another human made in the image of God. On the other hand both Liberals and Satanists are reprobates because they despise the offer of free salvation through Jesus Christ. But that never gives Christians the right to curse them by saying that they are evil people.
Your last paragraph is laughable. God does not love all liberals. God does not love Satanists. This would mean that God loves Satan. And some liberals are Satanists. So there you go.
 

BMS

Well-known member
Your last paragraph is laughable. God does not love all liberals. God does not love Satanists. This would mean that God loves Satan. And some liberals are Satanists. So there you go.
I think this is the crux of the matter. God so loved the world that He gave His son so that all who believe shall not perish but have eternal life.
Jesus didn't come to condemn but to save. The bold is the past tense, what God has done, and the rest is the future tense. Jesus has made the way

So God loved Satanists and liberals enough to make the way for their salvation. Our prayer must be that people repent

John 3:15 is John 3:16 just as, where God sent snakes. God's heart is that none should perish but all come to repentance.

Looking at Matthew 10, Matthew 25, the sheep and the goats, looks to me like how people treat believers.
 

Leatherneck0311

Well-known member
I think this is the crux of the matter. God so loved the world that He gave His son so that all who believe shall not perish but have eternal life.
Jesus didn't come to condemn but to save. The bold is the past tense, what God has done, and the rest is the future tense. Jesus has made the way

So God loved Satanists and liberals enough to make the way for their salvation. Our prayer must be that people repent

John 3:15 is John 3:16 just as, where God sent snakes. God's heart is that none should perish but all come to repentance.

Looking at Matthew 10, Matthew 25, the sheep and the goats, looks to me like how people treat believers.
God’s love makes the possibility for all to repent, but many love their sin more than God as per scripture.
 
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Cynthia

Active member
I think this is the crux of the matter. God so loved the world that He gave His son so that all who believe shall not perish but have eternal life.
Jesus didn't come to condemn but to save. The bold is the past tense, what God has done, and the rest is the future tense. Jesus has made the way

So God loved Satanists and liberals enough to make the way for their salvation. Our prayer must be that people repent

John 3:15 is John 3:16 just as, where God sent snakes. God's heart is that none should perish but all come to repentance.

Looking at Matthew 10, Matthew 25, the sheep and the goats, looks to me like how people treat believers.
Again. You are not considering the words "so that all who believe". Many liberals do not believe, and Satanists certainly do not. So there you go.
 

BMS

Well-known member
Again. You are not considering the words "so that all who believe". Many liberals do not believe, and Satanists certainly do not. So there you go.
Yes most definitely am, :) more than that Jesus said make disciples teaching them to OBEY all He taught. Faith means believing what Jesus said and did and seeking to follow the same.

One thing I have noticed, the usual liberal response to the scripture is 'thats your interpretation', and whilst there always is an element of interpretation, I note that Jesus told the people " ‘Today it will be stormy, for the sky is red and overcast.’ You know how to interpret the appearance of the sky, but you cannot interpret the signs of the times." - Matthew 16
He also said "But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you." John 14
 

BMS

Well-known member
Let us not forget that Christ knows who His church is. If they screech and scream at us let them. Keep praying for them and keep speaking the truth.
 
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