I once heard a Catholic priest say.....

This is not rocket science. This is Catholicism 101. The article explained it clearly for you:

"Father Hood was "devastated" to learn that not only was he not baptized or confirmed, but he also was not a validly ordained priest."

It was a fraud. All the Catholics at those Masses worshiped the bread, because none of them are capable of telling the difference between Jesus Christ and an inanimate object.

So no, this does not happen at every Mass. You are posting errors.
Seriously dude? You cannot tell the difference between "fraud" and a legitimate mistake?

When someone is committing acts of "fraud" they INTEND to deceive a person or persons. They KNOW what they are doing and fully intend to do it. Perhaps the priest who baptized "We baptize" was a fraud. The priest celebrating Mass who wasn't validly ordained on the other hand was not a fraud. He had every reason to believe he was validly ordained.

Now, I will admit----as much as I love the Catholic Faith and the Catholic Church, this kind of thing annoys me about Catholicism. The Church at times, I think tries to be so darn precise. In attempting to be so darn precise, the Church gets trapped in her own logic and then winds up getting eaten by her own logic.

The concern of the Church in this case was to uphold the integrity of the Sacrament of Baptism. The proper baptismal formula is "I baptize you in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit" not "We baptize." By charging the ritual, the priest changed the Faith. The Sacraments are not magic. The Sacraments are a mechanism of Tradition. Thus, the Sacramental celebrations must reflect the Faith of the Church. So I can understand why the Church felt the need to rule the baptisms invalid. The priest in essence, changed the Faith.

If I can give an analogy: it would be like your Pastor Bob, or Reverend Sue, or whatever they are in your sect leading me in the "sinners prayer" so I can get saved, but telling me to say to Jesus "I accept you as A lord and god" Rather than "I accept you as LORD and GOD." Christians do not believe that Jesus is merely a god, a lord, but LORD and GOD. However, I dare say your sect, unlike my sect, would not attempt to rule on a technicality and invalidate the sinners prayer based on Pastor Bob. Pastor Bob would be punished, rightly so, but the person who said the sinner's prayer would just be corrected as to what the proper belief is and who Jesus is--and on with your day. So--there I concede the point you are making. I wish the RCC would stop being so technical at times--becasue she winds up being eaten by her own logic.

The other side of this is just the point you are attempting to make--come on already guys! Seriously? The priest is the one at fault, not the people he baptized. If I had been king for a day I would have told whoever investigated this--to find a way to uphold the integrity of the Sacrament while ruling the baptisms valid. The Faithful should not have to be punished becasue the priest baptizing them messed up. That is an injustice.

So--in this---I do not know that I would say I am with you, but I can say--I understand your frustration. I am frustrated too. I wish the Church would stop with the technicalities nonsense. The God we worship is not a God of technicalities.
 
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Seriously dude? You cannot tell the difference between "fraud" and a legitimate mistake?

Telling people to worship an idol...an inanimate object...is never, ever, ever a "legitimate mistake."

Just an ooopsie, huh?

Christ followers can avoid worshiping idols. Why can't Roman Catholics?


Now, I will admit----as much as I love the Catholic Faith and the Catholic Church, this kind of thing annoys me about Catholicism. The Church at times, I think tries to be so darn precise. In attempting to be so darn precise, the Church gets trapped in her own logic and then winds up getting eaten by her own logic.

It is either true or not.

You are painting this as if it could have been another way.


If I had been king for a day I would have told whoever investigated this--to find a way to uphold the integrity of the Sacrament while ruling the baptisms valid.

So you do not believe what your sect teaches is actually true, but rather, it is arbitrary.

I agree with you. Most Catholics think the same.


The Faithful should not have to be punished becasue the priest baptizing them messed up. That is an injustice.

You said the wafers change into God at every Mass. Your own church says they do not.

Which is it? Who is lying? You or your church leaders?


So--in this---I do not know that I would say I am with you, but I can say--I understand your frustration.

I am not frustrated with the false teachings and the idolatry of Roman Catholicism. This is just one time when they were caught in their lies, among many other times.

Since the Catholics attending those Masses were impotent to tell the difference between Jesus Christ and an inanimate object, they worshiped anyway. That is not a "mistake." That is what they are commanded to do by your sect leaders.
 
You said the wafers change into God at every Mass. Your own church says they do not.
The bread and the wine are transformed into the body and blood of Christ at every VALIDLY celebrated Mass. Because the priest was invalidly baptized, he was invalidly ordained, which means he did not validly celebrate the Mass.
Which is it? Who is lying? You or your church leaders?
No one.
I am not frustrated with the false teachings and the idolatry of Roman Catholicism. This is just one time when they were caught in their lies, among many other times.
You misunderstood me greatly. What my Church teaches is not false, nor are we idolaters.

What annoys me is the need of the Church to speak in such absolutist language and then it winds up painting itself into corners.
Since the Catholics attending those Masses were impotent to tell the difference between Jesus Christ and an inanimate object, they worshiped anyway.
In good Faith and conscience.
That is not a "mistake." That is what they are commanded to do by your sect leaders.
In good Faith and conscience, yes.
 
You said the wafers change into God at every Mass. Your own church says they do not.
The bread and the wine are transformed into the body and blood of Christ at every VALIDLY celebrated Mass.

Hahahaha.

And since you have no clue when those are, that is funny!

Of course we all know that when Catholics say they are going to Mass every week, they believe they are going to a "VALIDLY" celebrated Mass....which we now know is a guess.

Remember this the next time you go. It can all be a charade, and you would never know.

What my Church teaches is not false, nor are we idolaters.

As we discuss false Masses and Catholics worshiping bread.

You have got to be kidding!

Since the Catholics attending those Masses were impotent to tell the difference between Jesus Christ and an inanimate object, they worshiped anyway.
In good Faith and conscience.

Christians cannot worship idols in "good faith and conscience"!

Absolutely incredible.

But thank you for confessing you believe Catholics can worship idols in "good faith."
 
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Hahahaha.

And since you have no clue when those are, that is funny!

Of course we all know that when Catholics say they are going to Mass every week, they believe they are going to a "VALIDLY" celebrated Mass....which we now know is a guess.

Remember this the next time you go. It can all be a charade, and you would never know.



As we discuss false Masses and Catholics worshiping bread.

You have got to be kidding!



Christians cannot worship idols in "good faith and conscience"!

Absolutely incredible.

But thank you for confessing you believe Catholics can worship idols in "good faith."
Suppose you got legally married to your spouse at your church. Pastor Bob did the ceremony, Trustee Joe was there and it was a grand ceremony.

You and your wife live happily ever after for 20 years until one day you discover that your wife, unbeknownst to you or anyone at the Church had a previous marriage that was never annulled by the state.

This means you were never legally married.

God teaches that sex outside of marriage is adultery. Did you commit adultery for 20 years? Were children as a result of your union illegitimate? Of course not. God is not a God of technicalities, is He?

I see it as analogous with regard to the Masses.
 
Suppose you got legally married to your spouse at your church. Pastor Bob did the ceremony, Trustee Joe was there and it was a grand ceremony.

You and your wife live happily ever after for 20 years until one day you discover that your wife, unbeknownst to you or anyone at the Church had a previous marriage that was never annulled by the state.

This means you were never legally married.

What the State declares has no bearing whatsoever on Christ followers.



I see it as analogous with regard to the Masses.

You make a great excuse to worship inanimate objects....because, according to you, God is down with it!

Hahahahaha.
 
What the State declares has no bearing whatsoever on Christ followers.
I take the fact that you bring up a point that you know darn well has NO bearing on my argument, as an implicit concession to my point.

The POINT, sir, as I am sure you well know----is that when a person has a previous marriage, God has joined them to that person--which means they are NOT free to commit themselves to another person. This means if they DO enter into a commitment with another person--who is totally unaware of the previous commitment, the commitment is invalid, regardless of how long they have been married, and regardless of whether they have children.

While the commitment itself is invalid, it does NOT follow that the person, who in good conscience, thought they were following God's laws when it came to the commitment committed adultery, NOR does it mean the children are not legitimate. The previously married spouse may have committed adultery, but the person unaware of the previous commitment committed no adultery and thus, no sin.

This is analogous to the situation of the priest who was not validly ordained, but thought he was, as well as the people who attended his masses and received Sacraments from him.

Of course you KNEW what I was getting at the whole time, not only did YOU know what I was getting at, despite your reply, I KNOW you know what I was getting at.
 
While the commitment itself is invalid, it does NOT follow that the person, who in good conscience, thought they were following God's laws when it came to the commitment committed adultery

Man, do you make a lot of excuses for what you already know is idolatry!

I am sorry, but it was NEVER, EVER in God's law to worship inanimate objects. You act like God WANTS you to commit idolatry.

Every time a sinner bows down and worships inanimate objects, they are sinning against God who commanded them not to do so.

It really is this simple, but it is important everyone see how hard devout Catholics will work to justify sin.
 
Man, do you make a lot of excuses for what you already know is idolatry!

I am sorry, but it was NEVER, EVER in God's law to worship inanimate objects. You act like God WANTS you to commit idolatry.

Every time a sinner bows down and worships inanimate objects, they are sinning against God who commanded them not to do so.

It really is this simple, but it is important everyone see how hard devout Catholics will work to justify sin.
Do you--like---even bother to read my posts or do you just hit reply and start typing?
 
Do you--like---even bother to read my posts or do you just hit reply and start typing?

I was wondering the same about you.

I read all your posts, in their entirety. Multiple times.

The problem is that you actually think you have lofty arguments that justify idolatry. You even argue that God is OK with idolatry, just as long as Catholics mean well. LOL.

There are no arguments or articulate wording that can make any excuse for idolatry. The fact that you thought this was the best way to excuse such awful behavior just goes to demonstrate the moral bankruptcy that is Roman Catholicism. Think about it: your first instinct was to defend idolatry.

Just so you know, idolatry is NEVER, EVER due to a lack of information.
 
I was wondering the same about you.

I read all your posts, in their entirety. Multiple times.

The problem is that you actually think you have lofty arguments that justify idolatry. You even argue that God is OK with idolatry, just as long as Catholics mean well. LOL.

There are no arguments or articulate wording that can make any excuse for idolatry. The fact that you thought this was the best way to excuse such awful behavior just goes to demonstrate the moral bankruptcy that is Roman Catholicism. Think about it: your first instinct was to defend idolatry.

Just so you know, idolatry is NEVER, EVER due to a lack of information.
Is adultery okay due to lack of information?
 
Man, do you make a lot of excuses for what you already know is idolatry!

I am sorry, but it was NEVER, EVER in God's law to worship inanimate objects. You act like God WANTS you to commit idolatry.

Every time a sinner bows down and worships inanimate objects, they are sinning against God who commanded them not to do so.

It really is this simple, but it is important everyone see how hard devout Catholics will work to justify sin.

I agree with you, making excuses and changing labels, never changes the crux of what is being done. We absolutely can not please God “vicariously” by praising and giving adoration to things He has created. Doing so is blatant idolatry. God calls this activity spiritual adultery against Him.

This is always in the back of the minds all the time. So no human can totally say they didn't know something was out of place about this.
 
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Correct. That was my point. Now apply that logic to your accusation of idolatry.

There is no accident. Your argument is that Catholics worshiping inanimate objects....which is idolatry...is OK because they do not know any better.

Yet there is the rotting bread they worship which testifies otherwise. Your argument that you Catholics cannot possibly know any better will not fly.

The whole fact that Roman Catholics cannot tell the difference between Jesus Christ and a piece of rotting bread only highlights the rampant idolatry rather than excuse it.
 
There is no accident. Your argument is that Catholics worshiping inanimate objects....which is idolatry...is OK because they do not know any better.

Yet there is the rotting bread they worship which testifies otherwise. Your argument that you Catholics cannot possibly know any better will not fly.

The whole fact that Roman Catholics cannot tell the difference between Jesus Christ and a piece of rotting bread only highlights the rampant idolatry rather than excuse it.
You post the truth. RCs need to justify going against scripture. They need to justify turning to others and not Jesus alone. They need to justify and cover up what they are really doing. It is the RC way unfortunately.
 
I once heard a Catholic priest say, "You can't put God in a box."

And I thought to myself, "Ya know.... that sounds right."

Then later the priest said some words and the bread became God and the people came forward to eat God.

After the people were done eating God at the mass, there happened to be some God left over.

So they put God in a box so people could eat Him later.

They called the box a "tabernacle" which made it sound really official.

And I discovered why the people had bowed down to the box. They had put God in that box.

I also discovered they had put God in a fancy ornament too.

And so I discovered the priest was wrong.

You can indeed put God in a box and He lives in temples made with hands.
They bowed down because it was the real presence of Christ, an omnipresent God, in the box.

JoeT
 
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