I reject the Rcc, its pope, its marian dogmas, its claim to be the one, true church..

bluedog1us

Well-known member
The establishment of the Catholic Church by Christ is in the Bible.
The establishment of Peter as head of the apostles and Vicar of Christ is in the Bible.
Apostolic succession and Christ building His Church upon the foundation of the Apostles is established in the Bible.
The Holy Eucharist is established in the Bible.
The Sacrament of confession is established in the Bible.
The sacrament of confirmation is established in the Bible.
Holy Orders are established in the Bible.
Papal infallibility is established in the Bible.
Ecclesiastical hierarchy is established in the Bible.
Legislative power is established in the Bible.
The Church being infallible is established in the Bible.
Praying for the dead is in scripture. (In a book removed by Protestants)
The Church suffering in Purgatory is in the Bible.
The Marian doctrines are at least implicitly implied in the Bible.

Now I am not going to list scriptures because the most pointless thing in the world is debating scripture with a Protestant because each one of them has their own infallible interpretations of scripture. It would be a giant waste of my time and it would be summarily dismissed .
I am really glad you are not going to post all those scriptures as I really hate looking at a blank page.
 

bluedog1us

Well-known member
Ncc's don't know 'hope' in the sense that Catholics do. They think of it as 'wishing'. But we understand hope as a 'confident expectation'. That distinguishes an attitude of presumption from the rightly ordered awe of Gods mercy, patience and the undeserved grace we receive.
2 Timothy 1:12 NASB95 — For this reason I also suffer these things, but I am not ashamed; for I know whom I have believed and I am convinced that He is able to guard what I have entrusted to Him until that day.
 

Lastdaysbeliever

Well-known member
Ncc's don't know 'hope' in the sense that Catholics do. They think of it as 'wishing'. But we understand hope as a 'confident expectation'. That distinguishes an attitude of presumption from the rightly ordered awe of Gods mercy, patience and the undeserved grace we receive.
You're right Stella. We are convinced, when we accept Jesus Christ as our Lord, God and Savior, accept His unmerited favor in faith knowing there is nothing we can do to earn our salvation, hope stops and belief comes:

Romans 8: 38 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39 neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
 

Stella1000

Well-known member
Stella1000 said:
Ncc's don't know 'hope' in the sense that Catholics do. They think of it as 'wishing'. But we understand hope as a 'confident expectation'. That distinguishes an attitude of presumption from the rightly ordered awe of Gods mercy, patience and the undeserved grace we receive.
You're right Stella. We are convinced, when we accept Jesus Christ as our Lord, God and Savior, accept His unmerited favor in faith knowing there is nothing we can do to earn our salvation, hope stops and belief comes:

Romans 8: 38 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39 neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 8:22 We know that the whole creation has been groaning together as it suffers together the pains of labor, 23 and not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the first fruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly while we wait for adoption, the redemption of our bodies. 24 For in hope we were saved. Now hope that is seen is not hope, for who hopes for what one already sees? 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we wait for it with patience.

The difference is that you are treating of Romans 8 38 on the presumption of already arriving whereas Catholics don't presume, we hope, based on the journey described in verses 22 to 25.
 

Lastdaysbeliever

Well-known member
Romans 8:22 We know that the whole creation has been groaning together as it suffers together the pains of labor, 23 and not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the first fruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly while we wait for adoption, the redemption of our bodies. 24 For in hope we were saved. Now hope that is seen is not hope, for who hopes for what one already sees? 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we wait for it with patience.

The difference is that you are treating of Romans 8 38 on the presumption of already arriving whereas Catholics don't presume, we hope, based on the journey described in verses 22 to 25.
That refers to the resurrection and I presume nothing. God is clear in His promises and as a Roman Catholic you don't believe God's promises and believe YOU must do something else to earn your salvation and work off your wages.
 

balshan

Well-known member
Romans 8:22 We know that the whole creation has been groaning together as it suffers together the pains of labor, 23 and not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the first fruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly while we wait for adoption, the redemption of our bodies. 24 For in hope we were saved. Now hope that is seen is not hope, for who hopes for what one already sees? 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we wait for it with patience.

The difference is that you are treating of Romans 8 38 on the presumption of already arriving whereas Catholics don't presume, we hope, based on the journey described in verses 22 to 25.
But let us be honest deep in your heart, you believe you have done enough. You tell us you are more humble than us (LOL), you are not mean Etc of course we see your posts in a different light.
 

Stella1000

Well-known member
That refers to the resurrection and I presume nothing. God is clear in His promises and as a Roman Catholic you don't believe God's promises and believe YOU must do something else to earn your salvation and work off your wages.
What we do is set our minds on the Spirit to stay in Christ and please God.

Romans 8 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. 6 To set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace. 7 For this reason the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law—indeed, it cannot, 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
 

balshan

Well-known member
What we do is set our minds on the Spirit to stay in Christ and please God.

Romans 8 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. 6 To set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace. 7 For this reason the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law—indeed, it cannot, 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
You put your mind on the rcc and follow its false teachers, is what comes trough your posts.
 

Lastdaysbeliever

Well-known member
What we do is set our minds on the Spirit to stay in Christ and please God.

Romans 8 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. 6 To set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace. 7 For this reason the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law—indeed, it cannot, 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
Now you are ignoring the past Scripture you posted...or are you claiming we shouldn't also look forward to the resurrection of our bodies now.
 

bluedog1us

Well-known member

That refers to the resurrection and I presume nothing. God is clear in His promises and as a Roman Catholic you don't believe God's promises and believe YOU must do something else to earn your salvation and work off your wages.
Ephesians 2:6 NASB95 — and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,

Hebrews 10:14 KJV — For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Romans 8:1 KJV — There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

It is FINISHED!!
 

bluedog1us

Well-known member
Now you are ignoring the past Scripture you posted...or are you claiming we shouldn't also look forward to the resurrection of our bodies now.
Stella, the gospel of Jesus Christ is very simple in one way, and seems impossible in other ways. Jesus did many things while He walked on earth, but He had one mission. He came to save HIS people from their sins! Matt 2:21. Jesus died for our sins according to the scriptures, He was buried, and on the third day arose from the grave, according to the scriptures. He had fulfilled His mission. Anyone who will place their faith in Him and trust His atoning work on the cross for salvation are made children of God by the Holy Spirit, who indwells that person as a seal, or guarantee of eternal life. Whoever receives Christ by grace through faith are now seated in the heavenly places in Christ. Eph. 2:6. We have God's Holy, eternal Word as a promise! We are, for the rest of our lives kept by the very power of God 1Peter 1:5. We don't have to worry about doing anything in order to still be saved, God sees to that for us. When we sin, and we will sin, we ask forgiveness for those sins and repent of those sins. 1 John 1:9. God forgives us of those sins and cleanses us from ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS! The narrow road and the straight gate is salvation by grace through faith in what Jesus has done for us on Calvary. Eph 2:8-9. Only then can we live a life pleasing to Him. There is nothing we can do to merit salvation. Jesus did it ALL. As he said, IT IS FINISHED. HE had completed His mission. His work of redemption was done. He didn't do part of His job, He did it all.. To add anything to what Jesus did is to deny what He did on the cross. And that is the broad road that leads to destruction.
 

mica

Well-known member
Lastdaysbeliever said:
...its claimed "history" of having apostolic succession from Peter until today...well, I just reject everything that is the Rcc but I claim Jesus as my Lord, God and Savior. I repented of my sins, truly turned from my past sins, accepted Jesus, believed on Him that He died and was resurrected for the forgiveness of my sins and was later baptized as a public display of the old man dying and the new creation being risen. Still the Rcc teaches I am anathema. But do you, as a Rc believe I saved?

Do you believe in apostolic succession?
is that a rcc requirement to be saved?

you didn't answer the question you were asked.
 

bluedog1us

Well-known member
Romans 8:22 We know that the whole creation has been groaning together as it suffers together the pains of labor, 23 and not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the first fruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly while we wait for adoption, the redemption of our bodies. 24 For in hope we were saved. Now hope that is seen is not hope, for who hopes for what one already sees? 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we wait for it with patience.

The difference is that you are treating of Romans 8 38 on the presumption of already arriving whereas Catholics don't presume, we hope, based on the journey described in verses 22 to 25.
Biblical hope is not hoping that maybe something will or won't happen. Hope is assurance in God's promises that will surely happen. Our salvation is sealed and guaranteed by the Holy Spirit that we most certainly will be raised in Christ and ARE heaven born. That hope just hasn't happened in that we wait on the resurrection. But our salvation is assured!
 

bluedog1us

Well-known member
How do you account for all those who were certain of salvation and then down the track were tempted right away from faith? How can any human have the type of certainty that they won't be tempted away by the devil? To me that invites the devil into the picture.
Because Jesus said He would lose NONE. Why? Because we are kept by God's power. 1Peter 1:5. You can't claim that because you are working to earn your salvation. Tell us when you have earned enough filthy rags to please God!
 
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