I want to talk with a militant atheist on God exists or not.

yrger

Member
Haha, I was absent for days on end, and there are new faces now, welcome to you, I am the author of the present thread.

From Deist Mar 25, 2021

yrger said:
Well, at this point in time in this thread of mine, I am into inviting my colleague posters here, to with me adopt a non-partisan mode, and work together as to finally conclude on, Yes God exists or No God does not exist.

And how do we both adopt a non-partisan mode?

How else but with us both working together to arrive at concurrence on all things: that we see to be honest and intelligent and productive toward the final conclusion to the issue, God exists or not.

And right now from my part, I tender the irrefutable statement that I and my to be partner concur that we both exist.

So, please come forward anyone among posters here, who care and dare to adopt a non-partisan mode to work with me on resolving the issue, God exists or not.

Here I am and I will be waiting for such a non-partisan poster to work with me, on the things that we will accept to be honest and intelligent and productive: toward the communal labor of resolving the issue, God exists or not.
Click to expand...

I think it was Christopher Hitchens who said something like, "Even IF you prove A "God" exists, you have your whole lifetime ahead of you in proving she is the Christian God concept."
From Yrger Sunday at 5:46 PM May 16, 2021


Haha, long time no write.

The investigation of existence leads us to the existence of God, in concept as the permanent self-existent cause of man and the universe and everything transient, i.e. with a beginning and an ending.

1. Our investigation of our own existence tells us that we are transient beings, i.e. we have a beginning at birth and an ending at death.
2. Thinking on this fact, namely, that we are transient beings, brings us to the implication that there has got to be a being that is permanent and self-existent, that is the cause of us humans, and everything else that also has a beginning and an ending, like the universe.
3. At this point we go forth into the object world that is outside our concept world which is in our mind.
4. In the object world we seek this being which is permanent and self-existent and is the cause of man and the universe and everything transient, i.e. with a beginning and an ending.
5. We are still seeking . . .

What do you guys fellow posters here say about my idea?

:::

NB This post already published in another net forum.

See my next post.
 

yrger

Member
Thanks everyone for your contributions.

I guess for old timers here, what I am going to say now could be already familiar to you, but after this lapse of time you might have acquired some new insights and concur with me.

Existence is the highest broadest and deepest and ever enduring concept with us humans.

Everything is existence, there is no such thing as non-existence, no such thing as a nothing.

What am I driving at?

Investigate existence, and you will discover and irrefutably that there are two kinds of existence:

Permanent existence
Transient existence

We humans belong to transient existence, i.e. we have a beginning at birth and an ending at death.

What about permanent existence?
God is the unique being that belongs to permanent existence, i.e. He is existing all the time and everywhere.

So?

So, conclusion: God is the permanent self-existent cause of man and the universe and everything transient, i.e. with a beginning and an ending.
 

Nouveau

Well-known member
I guess for old timers here, what I am going to say now could be already familiar to you, but after this lapse of time you might have acquired some new insights and concur with me.
Nope. Unsupported claims don't magically become more convincing with the passing of time.

God is the unique being that belongs to permanent existence, i.e. He is existing all the time and everywhere.

So, conclusion: God is the permanent self-existent cause of man and the universe and everything transient, i.e. with a beginning and an ending.
Your conclusion appears to be identical to your premise. That's what's known as a circular argument.
 

yrger

Member
For guys who are into the pseudo fallacy of circular reasoning, please see whether the reasoning is all inside your brain or it goes out into the object world outside your brain.

From Yrger

The investigation of existence leads us to the existence of God, in concept as the permanent self-existent cause of man and the universe and everything transient, i.e. with a beginning and an ending.

1. Our investigation of our own existence tells us that we are transient beings, i.e. we have a beginning at birth and an ending at death.

2. Thinking on this fact, namely, that we are transient beings, brings us to the implication that there has got to be a being that is permanent and self-existent, that is the cause of us humans, and everything else that also has a beginning and an ending, like the universe.

3. At this point we go forth into the object world that is outside our concept world which is in our mind.

4. In the object world we seek this being which is permanent and self-existent and is the cause of man and the universe and everything transient, i.e. with a beginning and an ending.

5. We are still seeking . . .
 

yrger

Member
Here is my bonus for all you guys, to keep to the totality of global concerns as we are into discussions that seem so ephemeral.
It's been enjoyable to write my thinking in this thread, though it takes time and labor.

I keep noticing that I and also others want to and care to share their opinions on issues, but to what purpose when being correct or right or more informed here, it does not count at all in the way of solving the problem of the present pandemic of Covid-19, or stop the killing going on between the Palestinians and the Israelis.

I have been to many net forums, most of the time to ask atheists what they know about God.

From my own part, at present I see God to be the permanent self-existent cause of man and the universe and everything transient, i.e. with a beginning and an ending.

At this point atheists will accuse me of trying to convert them back to their Christian faith, etc. etc. etc.

So, what does it serve for me and atheists to 'win' their or my argument pro God with me and against God with them, there is still the pandemic of Covid-19 and the Palestinians and the Israelis are still killing each other.


NB Text from my musings in another net forum.
 

yrger

Member
I do not believe real Atheists exist...

(Its only people craving attention from Christians)

More like disgruntled Christians.

You GeneZ are really a most comfortable sight for my sore eye, as I vainly seek to talk sense with atheists, they are continuously into evasion from the issue itself of God exists or not.

Addressing atheists, what is your concept of God Which you deny to exist?

I know for a fact that atheists who flock to net forums are almost all ex-Christians.
 

yrger

Member
All persons of learning and intelligence, I am making this categorical statement:
"Existence is ultimately composed of two kinds: permanent existence one kind, transient existence the other kind."

See if you can refute it.
 

Nouveau

Well-known member
All persons of learning and intelligence, I am making this categorical statement:
"Existence is ultimately composed of two kinds: permanent existence one kind, transient existence the other kind."

See if you can refute it.
I doubt anyone disagrees with that. I certainly don't.

Maybe you could focus less on categorical statements that aren't disputed, and more on supporting arguments for your disputed claims?
 

rossum

Well-known member
All persons of learning and intelligence, I am making this categorical statement:
"Existence is ultimately composed of two kinds: permanent existence one kind, transient existence the other kind."

See if you can refute it.
The difference between "permanent" and "transient" depends on the existence of time. Is time permanent or transient? Perhaps you need a third category for time itself.
 

5wize

Well-known member
All persons of learning and intelligence, I am making this categorical statement:
"Existence is ultimately composed of two kinds: permanent existence one kind, transient existence the other kind."

See if you can refute it.
Maybe existence existed forever but all manifestations of it are transient.
 

Faithoverbelief

Well-known member
All persons of learning and intelligence, I am making this categorical statement:
"Existence is ultimately composed of two kinds: permanent existence one kind, transient existence the other kind."

See if you can refute it.
Think of an infinite circle. Tell me what do you see?
 

yrger

Member
*




I must commend you all for your learning and subtle intelligence.

Still I can and do make this categorical statement:

"There are two kinds ultimately of existence, permanent existence and transient existence."

Can you persons of learning and subtle intelligence refute my statement?

Well, everyone is entitled to his God or god from religion, his religion - or no God erh god.

I am into God from reason, and He is the permanent self-existent cause of man and the universe and everything transient i.e. with a beginning and an ending.

Now, with guys who are into their fallacious accusation that I am into circular reasoning, my exposition covers all of existence in the object world and in the concept world: so that God ascertains that your nose does not fall off uncertainly from your face, even though you are not engaged in acts of relating to your God all the time very second and everywhere, which is not the fact – that goes for guys with their God from religion.

In brief words, my finding from my investigation of existence is that God exists and He is the permanent and self-existent cause of man and the universe and everything transient, i.e. with a beginning and an ending.

In other words: God and existence are identical in regard to the component of existence that is permanent, and He is the cause of existence in regard to the component that is transient.


Further affiant alleges naught.



*This post ls edited from my writing in another net forum.
 

Nouveau

Well-known member
Still I can and do make this categorical statement: "There are two kinds ultimately of existence, permanent existence and transient existence."
That is fine. No-one disputes this.

I am into God from reason, and He is the permanent self-existent cause of man and the universe and everything transient i.e. with a beginning and an ending.
This is the unsupported bit that you need to actually argue for.

Now, with guys who are into their fallacious accusation that I am into circular reasoning...
It is not a fallacious accusation. You are indeed guilty of circular reasoning.
 

yrger

Member
I am not into circular reasoning, because from the concept of God in my mind, I go forth to investigate and find evidence in the object world that is outside my mind.

And I have found evidence, for example, that the nose in our face is not falling off uncertainly from our face, that is the evidence of God existing permanently and everywhere, corresponding to my concept of God, namely: He is the permanent self-existent cause of man and the universe and everything transient, i.e. with a beginning and an ending.

Anyway, guys who are into nothing of any critical thinking, except that they got themselves all marinated with their semantic trickery of circular thinking, tell you what, explain what you know to be circular reasoning, and point out how I am into circular reasoning, okay?
 

rossum

Well-known member
Still I can and do make this categorical statement:

"There are two kinds ultimately of existence, permanent existence and transient existence."
But you have not made a categorical statement as to whether time (which certainly exists) is a permanent existence or a transient existence.
 

Nouveau

Well-known member
I am not into circular reasoning...
Yes, you are. That's exactly what you are into.

And I have found evidence, for example, that the nose in our face is not falling off uncertainly from our face, that is the evidence of God existing permanently and everywhere...
That's not how evidence works. You would need to show not only that keeping noses on faces is something you think God does, but further that this is the best explanation for why noses stay on faces. Until you can show that, you don't have actual evidence, and are instead simply assuming your conclusion.

Anyway, guys who are into nothing of any critical thinking, except that they got themselves all marinated with their semantic trickery of circular thinking, tell you what, explain what you know to be circular reasoning, and point out how I am into circular reasoning, okay?
Circular reasoning is starting with your conclusion instead of supporting it, which is exactly what you are doing.
 

yrger

Member
You see, dear readers and fellow posters here, I have now the idea that God and existence are identical.

What do you say about that?
 
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