CrowCross
Well-known member
So what? So can I.
ID is evitable.
- Thread starter Cisco Qid
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Gus Bovona
Well-known member
They can actually come watch me make it, though.
Gus Bovona
Well-known member
So if I can make something more powerful than I, why can't a god make something more powerful than it?
Harry Leggs
Super Member
It would not make a difference. Going by your example they would not believe their own eyes.
rossum
Well-known member
Mutations provide variations which can be selected. Fact.
CrowCross
Well-known member
Because there is nothing more powerful than God....you on the other hand have many things more powerful that you.
CrowCross
Well-known member
Not on the scale of great complexity that we see in an assembly line of organelle.
Gus Bovona
Well-known member
Who exactly is "they" (originally mentioned by you as "others")?
Gus Bovona
Well-known member
I will grant that if you define your god to be more powerful than anything, then it can't make something more powerful.
However, this started here:
The problem is whether we are taking about an unidentified designer, or are we talking about some specific god? AFAIK, ID makes a point to not specify who or what the designer is, only that it is an intelligent being. So if we (and Caroljeen) are merely talking about an unidentified designer, we don't know that that designer is all-powerful.
So let's specify whether we're talking about Yahweh or an unidentified designer.
Harry Leggs
Super Member
Does not need to happen to falsify nonintelligence/natural as causative. How hard can this be? They do rule out murder as cause of death because they do not know identity. What murder does rule out/falsify is natural causation. They have methodologies to determine intelligent causation in science.
CrowCross
Well-known member
I would imagine she was talking about the God of the Bible.
You should get to know Him.
Gus Bovona
Well-known member
Detectives investigating murders that they do not witness sometimes rightly conclude that the murder was done by a person and sometimes they conclude that the cause of death was natural causes. So what is your point?
Gus Bovona
Well-known member
When I originally read what she wrote,
I did not take the designer to be Yahweh, because the conversation before that point did not specify the god of the Bible as the designer, but I see now that it's probable that that is what she meant.
Harry Leggs
Super Member
The point is obvious to most with a reasonable amount of intelligence so you keep coming back with questions to avoid the obvious. Like i wrote they have ways to determine intelligent causation in science. What atheists do is corrupt science in the same mannor as the bishops who refused to look thru the telescope of Galileo. It can be human intelligence, it can be alien (ET) intelligence but it cannot be supernatural intelligence because of Theistic implications, not because it best explains the evidence, but because of philosophical prejudices. Supernatural causation is no problem for a supernaturalist, it is a huge problem for naturalists who prefer delusion to reality.
Gus Bovona
Well-known member
What are some of the ways that science determines intelligent causation?
rossum
Well-known member
And your evidence is...? Unless you provide evidence you are not going to get very far in a scientific argument.
CrowCross
Well-known member
Pretty much common sense....but, when you realize a DNA code is responsible for building the organelle.....which you say was derived from mutations and some form of selection...then this organelle is used as part of a process to produce another organelle....which is in line to make yet another....and so on...you realize evolutionism just doesn't work.
Where is your scientific method that tells how an assembly line of organelle could evolve?
Prove it
rossum
Well-known member
Common sense tells us that the earth is static and the sun moves round it. You need something better.
It is called "Evolution".
yes, it is the only designer of the universe that I would affirm.