Identifying Jehovah in the New Testament

Anthony

Member
You teach YHWH and the Messiah are two distinct entities ,whereas we understand two distinct persons. One of the Father and another of the Son. We say persons plural, because one is the Father and another is the Son.

Hope that helps....Alan

They aren't two Persons however you want to spin. Scriptures teach duality of powers within YHWH which is not equivalent to two Persons.
 

aeg4971

Member
They aren't two Persons however you want to spin. Scriptures teach duality of powers within YHWH which is not equivalent to two Persons.
On the contrary divine power is indeterminately substantial , but nevertheless determinate by way of distinct hypostasis, however you try to spin it with duality of powers. You act as if infinite power doesn't terminate in the reception of divine act. Hence a plurality of suppositas albeit as you insist ,"God is in fact only one suppositum" ,nonetheless we acknowledge three supposita having Godhead. Not because God is made up of three beings, but rather because God is His own Godhead.

Or as those pesky Greco Latin doctors assert," The divine essence/Deity comprehends within itself the perfection of All being". (EX 3:14).

Hope that helps.....Alan
 

Anthony

Member
On the contrary divine power is indeterminately substantial , but nevertheless determinate by way of distinct hypostasis, however you try to spin it with duality of powers. You act as if infinite power doesn't terminate in the reception of divine act. Hence a plurality of suppositas albeit as you insist ,"God is in fact only one suppositum" ,nonetheless we acknowledge three supposita having Godhead. Not because God is made up of three beings, but rather because God is His own Godhead.

Or as those pesky Greco Latin doctors assert," The divine essence/Deity comprehends within itself the perfection of All being". (EX 3:14).

Hope that helps.....Alan

It's you who spin the scriptures. There are no multiple persons of God. Multiple Persons concept is heathenish borrowed by Christendom. The one God is both transcendent as well as in creation. The One Who spoke and revealed Himself in OT as The Father is the same One Who came as The Son by His own decree. He came as The true Israel of God. There are no multiple hypostasis anywhere in scriptures. You borrowed it from heathen culture.
 

aeg4971

Member
It's you who spin the scriptures. There are no multiple persons of God. Multiple Persons concept is heathenish borrowed by Christendom. The one God is both transcendent as well as in creation. The One Who spoke and revealed Himself in OT as The Father is the same One Who came as The Son by His own decree. He came as The true Israel of God. There are no multiple hypostasis anywhere in scriptures. You borrowed it from heathen culture.
On the contrary this word person signifies a relation as subsisting in the divine. Your understanding of a plurality of persons is paganish . Asserting," The One Who spoke and revealed Himself in OT as The Father is the same One Who came as The Son by His own decree. He came as The true Israel of God.". Does not NEGATE One person of the Father and another of the Son. I know God is one absolute and I don't need you to qualify the plurality of suppositas having Godhead , just to make me feel monotheistic wholesome.

Hope that helps.....Alan
 

Anthony

Member
On the contrary divine power is indeterminately substantial , but nevertheless determinate by way of distinct hypostasis, however you try to spin it with duality of powers. You act as if infinite power doesn't terminate in the reception of divine act. Hence a plurality of suppositas albeit as you insist ,"God is in fact only one suppositum" ,nonetheless we acknowledge three supposita having Godhead. Not because God is made up of three beings, but rather because God is His own Godhead.

Or as those pesky Greco Latin doctors assert," The divine essence/Deity comprehends within itself the perfection of All being". (EX 3:14).

Hope that helps.....Alan

I'm not interested in your philosophy. Take your distinct hypostasis somewhere else. First, understand what the gospel message and then teach others. I'm not interested in what Christendom or your Greco Latin scholars say as they are heathen and not part of Israel that Mashyach came for.
 
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aeg4971

Member
I'm not interested in your philosophy. Take your distinct hypostasis somewhere else. First, understand what the gospel message and then teach others. I'm not interested in what Christendom or your Greco Latin scholars say as they are heathen and not part of Israel that Mashyach came for.
Since you have proven over the years that you take this word person ONLY in its proper sense of composite subject ,which belongs to created things and could not exist in God .It follows this word person applied to God in the plural could not be taken in exact as it is applied to humans. Instead of adjusting your intellect to process the fact that this word person cannot be applied to God in the exact same way as this word person is applied to us ;you insist on posting suppositions as if we don't know one means ONE when we say," three persons in God" .

That is too bad for you ,but not for me because, I rightly understand what is meant to be understood regardless to your modern humanistic disdain for ancient theological text. You can keep your uninformed and unlearned opinions because I will always factor orthodox post Apostolic theologians suppositions over many of you modern apologist EVERY TIME. Besides we are too modernly humanistic for me to rely on our suppositions If I solely relied on us modern folks to give theological interpretation for the masses , I would still be teaching the errors and contradictions of Oneness Pentecostalism ,I was modernly born to.

Not to mention most of you anti Trinitarians Christology inherently imports polytheism. Even some Trinitarians incorrect teaching of the Kenosis inherently imports polytheism . By most of your own theological admissions ,it is not hard for most Christians of today , Christology by default to be repugnant to the SHEMA. You too busy trying to explain away the relativity of this flesh ,these bones ,and this blood, when in absolution ,God is spirit.

......Alan
 

Yahchristian

Active member
Even some Trinitarians incorrect teaching of the Kenosis inherently imports polytheism.

That is so true!

Here is what I believe. Do you think " inherently imports polytheism" in any way?

GOD is spirit and is the only one who is eternal. GOD is also in the universe as spirit and as a human. GOD in the universe as spirit is called the Spirit of God, GOD in the universe as a human is called the Son of God, and eternal GOD is called God the Father.

Note: English Bibles and I use the word GOD (with all caps) to signify the underlying Hebrew word is YHWH (a proper name) rather than Elohim (a title). Exodus 23:17 ESV… Three times in the year shall all your males appear before the Lord GOD.
 

johnny guitar

Well-known member
That is so true!

Here is what I believe. Do you think " inherently imports polytheism" in any way?

GOD is spirit and is the only one who is eternal. GOD is also in the universe as spirit and as a human. GOD in the universe as spirit is called the Spirit of God, GOD in the universe as a human is called the Son of God, and eternal GOD is called God the Father.

Note: English Bibles and I use the word GOD (with all caps) to signify the underlying Hebrew word is YHWH (a proper name) rather than Elohim (a title). Exodus 23:17 ESV… Three times in the year shall all your males appear before the Lord GOD.
IOW Father, Son, Holy Spirit, The ONE God.
 

aeg4971

Member
That is so true!

Here is what I believe. Do you think " inherently imports polytheism" in any way?

GOD is spirit and is the only one who is eternal. GOD is also in the universe as spirit and as a human. GOD in the universe as spirit is called the Spirit of God, GOD in the universe as a human is called the Son of God, and eternal GOD is called God the Father.

Note: English Bibles and I use the word GOD (with all caps) to signify the underlying Hebrew word is YHWH (a proper name) rather than Elohim (a title). Exodus 23:17 ESV… Three times in the year shall all your males appear before the Lord GOD.
I answer that ,"as a human He is called the Son of God ',imports polytheism or the heresy of Arius. Two beings ,one divine and one human. The Son is called the Word of God to show that He is eternally God own Word and not the Son because He is human. God does not birth creatures nor does He change into a creature . Only God Word Himself proceeding can be called generation , the one and only begotten and Son, made known in this flesh these bones and this blood.

Flesh does not proceed from God but His own Logos does. The man Christ is the Word proceeding in flesh ,that makes this man God own Son. And that makes this man the Christ God the Father own Word- God the Word Himself manifested in the flesh.

You articulated accidental motion and movement and thus change, whereas I did not, by articulating a distinction in hypostasis, which is substantially without motion and movement.

Hope that helps.....Alan
 

Anthony

Member
That is so true!

Here is what I believe. Do you think " inherently imports polytheism" in any way?

GOD is spirit and is the only one who is eternal. GOD is also in the universe as spirit and as a human. GOD in the universe as spirit is called the Spirit of God, GOD in the universe as a human is called the Son of God, and eternal GOD is called God the Father.

Note: English Bibles and I use the word GOD (with all caps) to signify the underlying Hebrew word is YHWH (a proper name) rather than Elohim (a title). Exodus 23:17 ESV… Three times in the year shall all your males appear before the Lord GOD.

You will be crazy with his theology. He believes his Greco Latin gurus.

As for me, the revelation of God comes with the believing of the true gospel of Messiah. These Latin gurus don't have the true gospel which Paul has highlited in Gal 4:1-5 - Messiah and His people.
 

Anthony

Member
I answer that ,"as a human He is called the Son of God ',imports polytheism or the heresy of Arius. Two beings ,one divine and one human. The Son is called the Word of God to show that He is eternally God own Word and not the Son because He is human. God does not birth creatures nor does He change into a creature . Only God Word Himself proceeding can be called generation , the one and only begotten and Son, made known in this flesh these bones and this blood.

Flesh does not proceed from God but His own Logos does. The man Christ is the Word proceeding in flesh ,that makes this man God own Son. And that makes this man the Christ God the Father own Word- God the Word Himself manifested in the flesh.

You articulated accidental motion and movement and thus change, whereas I did not, by articulating a distinction in hypostasis, which is substantially without motion and movement.

Hope that helps.....Alan

by articulating a distinction in hypostasis

If by your articulation you arrive at distinction in hypostasis - then you got it all wrong because scriptures don't teach distinct hypostasis. Case closed. However you want to spin there is no distraction in hypostasis anywhere in scriptures but only in your articulation.
 

Yahchristian

Active member
I answer that ,"as a human He is called the Son of God ',imports polytheism or the heresy of Arius. Two beings ,one divine and one human. The Son is called the Word of God to show that He is eternally God own Word and not the Son because He is human. God does not birth creatures nor does He change into a creature . Only God Word Himself proceeding can be called generation , the one and only begotten and Son, made known in this flesh these bones and this blood.

Just to clarify your TRINITARIAN view...

Would the statement "as a human He is called the Son of man" import polytheism?

I say No.
 

civic

Well-known member
Does the NT clearly identify that the God spoken of by Jesus Christ and Christians is the same Jehovah mentioned in the pre-Christian Scriptures?
Did Jesus identify Jehovah (God in pre-Christian Scriptures) as his own GOD that he speaks of many times?
Did Christian writers identify Jehovah as their God and Jesus' God?
Paul says in Romans 10 that if you confess Jesus is LORD and believe God raised Him from the dead you shall be saved. What does it mean to confess Jesus is Lord? Let’s examine just a couple of passages from Paul and John.

These O.T. passages about YHWH are applied to Christ in the N.T.


Isa 6:1-7
I saw the Lord sitting on a throne, lofty and exalted, with the train of His robe filling the temple. 2Seraphim stood above Him, each having six wings: with two he covered his face, and with two he covered his feet, and with two he flew. And one called out to another and said,
"Holy, Holy, Holy, is the Lord of hosts,
The whole earth is full of His glory."
4And the foundations of the thresholds trembled at the voice of him who called out, while the temple was filling with smoke. 5Then I said,
"Woe is me, for I am ruined!
Because I am a man of unclean lips,
And I live among a people of unclean lips;
For my eyes have seen the King, the Lord of hosts."
6Then one of the seraphim flew to me with a burning coal in his hand, which he had taken from the altar with tongs. 7He touched my mouth with it and said, "Behold, this has touched your lips; and your iniquity is taken away and your sin is forgiven."

John 12:41-42
These things Isaiah said because he saw His glory, and he spoke of Him. We see that the Apostle John said that Isaiah saw the glory of Jesus in Isaiah 6 for this was the one and only time Isaiah was in the presence of Yahweh.

In Romans 10:9-10, we see that Christians will confess that Jesus is Lord. The context through verse 13 clearly shows that Jesus is the Lord which all men must call on in order to be saved. Paul quotes from Joel 2:32 to make his point.Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved (verse 13). If you read Joel 2:32 one can see that Paul quoted from this verse. When we look at the OT passage salvation comes to those who call on the name of YHWH ie...the Divine name of Israel for God. Paul declares it is Jesus upon whom we must call on in order to be saved.

In Philippians 2:9-11, we read that Jesus has a name that is above every name that at His name every knee should bow and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. Paul bases his statements on Isaiah 45:23, where we read (By myself I have sworn, my mouth has uttered in all integrity a word that will not be revoked: Before Me every knee will bow; by Me every tongue will swear .In the context this is clearly YHWH speaking of Himself. He is the Lord who says there is no God apart from Me in verse 21.Paul does not hesitate in saying that every knee will bow to Jesus and every tongue will confess Jesus is YHWH.


It is an indisputable fact that Paul said God bestowed the Name “Yahweh” on Jesus because in Philippians 2: 9-11 he was quoting Isaiah 45: 21-24.

This is what Yahweh told Isaiah:
“And there is no other God besides Me, a righteous God and a Savior; there is none except Me. Turn to Me, and be saved, all the ends of the earth; for I am God, and there is no other. I have sworn by Myself, the Word has gone forth from My mouth in righteousness and will not turn back, that to Me every knee will bow, every tongue will swear allegiance, they will say of Me, ‘Only in Yahweh are righteousness and strength.’ Men will come to Him and all who were angry with Him shall be put to shame.”

Isaiah 43: 11- Yahweh said that He is our only Savior- Even I Am Yahweh and there is no other Savior besides Me. This verse is very clear as to its meaning.

We see that Yahweh is the Name God bestowed on Jesus and it is Yahweh which is the Name that is above every name and it is Yahweh to which every knee will bow. There is no mistaking that Paul declares in his epistles that Jesus is the Yahweh of the Hebrew Scriptures. Jesus is our Lord Yahweh in the New Testament as well as our Savior. These were the specific names that were Gods alone in the Old Testament.

hope this helps !!!
 
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